Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #7

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So true, my son was the same and for the threat of electronic games time out. :p

GT has learnt through the years how to express remorse in writing, he might even parrot his parent's expressions/words. Not a scrap of remorse in reality though. He will continue to break the law, he can't help himself. JMO
I agree 100%
 
Considering distance (too short), those pebbles could not heart him much. The average mass of one is about 35-38g.

Also there is only proof that one even hit him due to the blood found on one.
 
I'm glad I didn't witness Warriena's shattered body on the pavement, or have to tag the scene, or load her into a van for post-mortem.
I'm glad I am not the colleague or sister that had to pack up Warriena's desk at the bank.
I'm glad that I didn't have to negotiate with the funeral directors after my sister/daughter/cousin/neice's holiday.
I'm glad I didn't have to receive her belongings back from the police, and I didn't have to settle her hotel bill.
I'm glad I didn't spend her last day sight seeing with her and that I don't live with the regret that I organised nothing to do that evening.
I'm sorry that Warriena's mother, like Warriena, 'just wants to go home'. No matter the outcome, we will never be able to right these wrongs. All it would have taken was one act of chivalry, a taxi on speed-dial ... not a lawyer on speed dial.
 
Sorry for multiple posts, but I think it would be interesting to go through all the witness reports, everything they've said on msm and in the trial, and try to match up their descriptions with times in that last few minutes.

Point being, -after- we hear that door shut, Warriena *immediately* stops screaming 'no' and shouts 'let me go home' a couple of times before she falls.

Maybe, depending on what was heard by each witness, we can work out whether he was out there at any stage, while her feet were seen --by anyone-.

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 10

Mr Chen said he felt "it was not normal". He said it sounded as though it was coming from outside. #tostee
0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 10

Mr Chen says he woke to sounds of of a woman screaming. A couple of seconds later, a man yelling, like an "ahh". #tostee
0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 10

We're now hearing from a neighbour of Tostee's, Chong (Steven) Chen. Shares wall with Tostee's apartment.
https://twitter.com/KateKyriacou
 
I don't believe she ever intended to get blind drunk
They bought a 6 pack of beer, no mention of vodka in his messages beforehand
why would they spend money on beer if he had all that alcohol or ready? I think he waited till she was drunk enough that she'd be open to trying his homemade potion

Also, people are talking about her leaving without her phone, don't forget he had her bag too, money, id, passport, hotel key etc, no tourist would want to lose those things
 
My prediction is that it will be a hung jury. What do others think?
I am afraid that the 'not guilty' verdict is quite likely. And I am quite surprised that given GT's background there are no witnesses of his past behaviour with other women. I am sure there is a lot to uncover.
 
To take up further what JCB has posted.

One of the things the Judge will tell the Jury tomorrow is that they, and they alone, are “the Judges of the facts.” Before they turn your mind to legal matters, the Jury need to satisfy themselves, beyond reasonable doubt, what the basic facts are. One can see their immediate difficulty given the number of unanswered question which have been posted here. The Judge will instruct them that they may not speculate on what the facts are. They must determine what they are, beyond reasonable doubt, and based on the evidence presented to them at the Trial, and nothing else.

So, what facts can be safely ‘found’ beyond reasonable doubt, on that evidence.


  1. They met and we have seen the videos of that.
  2. They purchase alcohol, we have the CCTV of that
  3. They go to his Unit, we have the CCTV of that.
From here on, until after her death, we only have the tape and what the neighbours heard, plus the photos, and forensic evidence. What can be safely found as a fact.


  1. He was recording.
  2. It was only late in the events that he told her he was recording.
  3. There was discussion including reference to the balcony, Ninja, muy thai, psycho, heavy breathing, a metallic sound, sounds of stones hitting hard objects, heavy breathing, etc.
  4. There was discussion about her leaving, “all good,” and him saying something about her attempting to strike him with a metal object.
  5. It is conceded by the Crown she had unlawfully assaulted him.
  6. Some sounds could have been sounds of choking, but there is no expert evidence to assist the Jury conclude what it was.
  7. Almost immediately after that unlawful assault of him by her, she is, (method unknown) removed to the balcony and in that process she repetitively screams “No.” The Jury can conclude she did not want to be taken to the balcony.
  8. As soon as she is on the balcony, the door is shut and locked from the inside. Only he could have done that.
  9. There are now separated by that locked door.
  10. Within seconds, she disappears from his view.
  11. Neighbours saw her hanging from the balcony, and it seems her feet were pointing in to the building. A neighbour tells her to go back. She says nothing to a person in immediate communication with. The neighbour sees her fall, ricochet off other balconies, to the ground.
  12. Tostee leaves the building and has her phone in his pocket. We do not know how or why it got there.
  13. By the time he gets to ground level, he has failed in an attempt to call his Lawyer. Also within that time, first responders are at the scene.
  14. There is CCTV vision of him holding on object. This is not explained by the Crown, and the Jury can therefor discard it. To do otherwise is to speculate.
  15. He wanders off, calls his Father, gives a brief account of events, gets a piece of pizza, and eventually, is picked up by his Father.

Unless I have missed something, those are the facts which are established, beyond reasonable doubt, on the evidence.

Now, to the Law. The Crown Case is that when he removed her to the balcony, he knew that she was in such a state of fear, that his act of putting her there in that State was no different from a situation if he in fact physically tossed her over. Her state of fear, the Crown says, was because he had attempted to choke her. That is where the alleged choking comes into play, as she did not die of asphyxiation.
Okay, let’s go back to what we know about that alleged choking incident. Firstly, that it even occurred is not safe to conclude beyond reasonable doubt, as the expert forensic evidence is that there were no signs of it having occurred. So, it cannot be concluded reliably that he either had been throttling her with his hands, or by way of arm bar across her throat. But, what of the sounds on the tape. Well, as I have already said, no expert was called to assist the Jury interpret them, and that is curious and damning of the Crown case of itself. Why was there no expert on that sort of matter called? We do not know. So, if the Jury are not satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he was choking her, there goes the Crown lynch pin in the suggestion of heightened fear of death at his hands.

But, take it a step further for moot purposes only. Assume there was proof beyond reasonable doubt those sounds were of him throttling her. What do we know of what follows.

He ceases throttling her which may may not have been because he had managed to disarm her of the metal object. Maybe, he did not want to kill her by choking her to death. We don’t know, We do know he stopped.
Instead, he removed her to the balcony, goes back inside, shuts and locks the door.

The Crown says that, at this point, she had only one choice. Attempt to climb over the rail and escape from him. But, that flies in the face of other more obvious options which include, yell for assistance, stay exactly there and do nothing. He was no longer in her immediate presence and there was a closed glass door between them. She elects to attempt to climb down. She is told by a neighbour to go back. She ignores him.

So, on two important bases, the Murder charge is unsustainable. No choking incident was proven beyond reasonable doubt. Even if it was, when she was on the balcony, she had other safe options. She was not left with but one…..attempt to climb down.

Manslaughter. Well, again, the basic facts remain as above. In those circumstances, could a reasonable person, anticipate that W would attempt to climb down from a 14[SUP]th[/SUP] Floor balcony when there were other entirely safe options available. Not in my opinion, and I doubt the Jury will conclude that either.
 
Have just finished reading the past couple of days worth of posts and there has certainly been some spirited discussion! I'd just like to (re)clarify a number of things in the interests of a balanced and legally accurate argument.

The Crown has proceeded on the charge of murder. As with any charge, to satisfy a charge of a murder, a number of not negotiable elements must individually be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. In this case case we have the element of intent (in some criminal matters the element of intent need not be satisfied before a finding of guilt, there are known as strict liability of absolute liability offences). To be found guilty of murder it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused either intended to kill the victim or inflict grievous bodily harm, that is an injury which, if left untreated, would be life threatening for the victim.

As I've previously referred to, many rejoiced with the GBC murder conviction being reinstated however a consequence of this High Court decision, perhaps unintentional, is that it very much narrows the confines of speculation outside of the evidence admitted in a criminal trial. It will also mean less defendants will give evidence on their behalf or even call any witnesses at all. Both are an impediment to the Crown and will see an increase in acquittals over time.

Turning to the element of intent. The Crown contends that the alleged act of choking or strangulation constitutes GBH and is the sole basis of the murder charge, there has been no other evidence led that could satisfy this particular element. The Crown has NOT alleged that Gable intended to kill Warriena at any time. The problem with this choking allegation is that it is contrary to much of the findings of the pathologist who conducted the post mortem.

Dr Little gave evidence that there was absolutely no signs of trauma either to the skin or the neck muscles which would be apparent in a typical case of strangulation or choking. When pressed, Dr Little gave evidence that there is a particular form of choking which was referred to as an 'arm lock' which was capable of leaving no marks on the skin however the possibility of there being no muscular trauma was, in her words, less common. Throughout the first few days, the Crown made no reference to an arm lock or similar method of strangulation being employed until Dr Little raised it as the only possibility (albeit unlikely).

Given that intent to inflict GBH is an element of this charge, Gable must be acquitted as even if the prosecution case was taken at it's strongest, it cannot be proved that Warriena was choked, in fact the physical evidence suggests that she probably wasn't. On the recording there was certainly evidence of some laboured breathing however this could have been caused by a number of factors (being held against the ground etc.), however the problem that the Crown now face is that they've thrown all of their eggs into the choking basket, they have led no evidence to suggest it could have been anything else that caused the laboured breathing. Thanks to the GBC decision, it would be impermissible for the jury to speculate on any reasons that Warriena was not breathing normally, they either must accept that she was being strangled or they must reject it and evidence from Dr Little, who we must remember was called by the Crown, suggests that the altercation simply did not play out the way the Crown suggests. There may be other possibilities but the jury is unable to speculate, given the way the case was run by the Crown. On this basis, the murder allegation is doomed to fail, if not at the trial stage, certainly during any potential appeal. Ultimately Gable cannot be found guilty of murder.

The Crown have also fallen short of proving intent as during whatever altercation occurred, there was no suggestion from the Crown that whatever Gable was doing he did not stop stop of his own volition. Choking someone obviously is an horrendous act however if the act was voluntarily ceased prior to any danger to the victims health, it becomes an assault (albeit a serious one) as opposed to GBH which as you recall means there must have been a life threatening injury sustained. Again, the murder charge fails at this point (and it only gets to this point if the jury inexplicably accepts that Warriena was choked beyond a reasonable doubt).

Finding Gable guilty of manslaughter is an option to the jury and does not require that the Crown proves that Gable intended to kill of inflict GBH upon Warriena. The pertinent element here is that they must prove that Gable's actions on that night were responsible for Warriena's death in that the possibility of death was foreseeable to a reasonable person and that the actions taken by the victim were proportionate to the level of the threat.

There is no medical evidence that Warriena was choked and no other explanation was offered as to the reason for her laboured breathing so then the jury would then ask themselves, could Gable have reasonably foreseen the possibility that Warriena would climb over the balcony and while there was obviously an altercation of some type, was it sufficiently serious that climbing over a 14th story balcony could be viewed as proportionate to the threat imposed.

For Warriena's actions to be proportionate, there MUST have been an imminent threat to her life simply because the actions she chose were so risky, to the point where death was almost certain. The problem the Crown has is that choking cannot be proved, and medical evidence suggests that it did not occur, at least in the manner that the Crown asserts and the Crown made the following (perhaps slightly paraphrased) admission, "The Crown does not contend that Gable intended to harm or kill Warriena when he isolated her on the balcony". So she was not fleeing GBH, which by definition is life threatening, and the Crown asserts that there was no intention for Gable to harm her after the altercation.

So for manslaughter to be proved in this situation, the fact that Warriena's actions were so risky and dangerous means that for it to be proportionate, there had to a real, and imminent threat to her life and by the Crown's own admission, there was not. It matters not that she was intoxicated, the test is not a "a reasonable person, having mind to their level of impairment", it is "a reasonable person". Her level of intoxication is not relevant here and was not relied upon by the Crown in their arguments anyway. She consumed the alcohol of her own free will, she was perfectly entitled to stop at any point she wished, she was at no point forced to consume more alcohol than she was comfortable with. Likewise even if the alcohol she consumed was illegally brewed, this was not in any way relied upon by the Crown so cannot be considered by the jury. The Crown does not contend that there was an imminent risk to her life so therefore the manslaughter charge must also fail.

Parallels are being drawn between the current case and the Royall case but it's largely irrelevant. In Royall, it was beyond dispute that GBH had occurred and as such, met the criteria for murder. It's also irrelevant at the trial stage as the jury will (should) have no knowledge of this case and may only be relied upon during any subsequent appeals. It's a sideshow, interesting to the us as observers but the decision has absolutely no legal bearing on this case, at least at this point.

This is a tragedy of tremendous proportions, a young person has needlessly lost their life, Warriena's family have suffered tremendously and it's something that Gable will have to live with for the rest of his life. There are no winners here and I am in no way trying to trivialise Warriena's incredibly untimely death but it simply is not murder or manslaughter.

The following recurring topics, while we are free to discuss them here, cannot have any bearing over the decision of the jury due to the way the case was run by the Crown -

- The level of Warriena's intoxication.
- The level of Gable's intoxication.
- The source of the intoxication.
- The "mystery basement item".
- Gable's behaviour both online and during previous interactions with other women.

What is your authority for the proposition that there is a requirement for an "imminent threat" - the hallmark of manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another without the intent element - if his actions have CAUSED WW's death (they need not be the only cause) he is very much guilty of manslaughter IMO -
 
"Some sounds could have been sounds of choking, but there is no expert evidence to assist the Jury conclude what it was" - there is no requirement that an expert tell the jury how to interpret sounds on an audio tape - jury is arbiter of fact disputes - IMO if you played that tape to 100 people, 99 would conclude choking or smothering
 
“I want to go home, I want to go home,” she said.


About 15 seconds later the recording captured her scream as she fell trying to climb down to the balcony below.


Nick Casey, who was in the apartment two floors below Tostee, told the court he had gone outside to investigate loud bangs like a weight being dropped when he saw Wright climbing over the balustrade.

I heard her say ‘I want to go home’, I heard her say ‘help’,” he said.

Casey said he told Wright “you can’t get down this way, go back in”.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-warriena-wrights-screams-before-balcony-fall
 
To take up further what JCB has posted.

One of the things the Judge will tell the Jury tomorrow is that they, and they alone, are “the Judges of the facts.” Before they turn your mind to legal matters, the Jury need to satisfy themselves, beyond reasonable doubt, what the basic facts are. One can see their immediate difficulty given the number of unanswered question which have been posted here. The Judge will instruct them that they may not speculate on what the facts are. They must determine what they are, beyond reasonable doubt, and based on the evidence presented to them at the Trial, and nothing else.

So, what facts can be safely ‘found’ beyond reasonable doubt, on that evidence.


  1. They met and we have seen the videos of that.
  2. They purchase alcohol, we have the CCTV of that
  3. They go to his Unit, we have the CCTV of that.
From here on, until after her death, we only have the tape and what the neighbours heard, plus the photos, and forensic evidence. What can be safely found as a fact.


  1. He was recording.
  2. It was only late in the events that he told her he was recording.
  3. There was discussion including reference to the balcony, Ninja, muy thai, psycho, heavy breathing, a metallic sound, sounds of stones hitting hard objects, heavy breathing, etc.
  4. There was discussion about her leaving, “all good,” and him saying something about her attempting to strike him with a metal object.
  5. It is conceded by the Crown she had unlawfully assaulted him.
  6. Some sounds could have been sounds of choking, but there is no expert evidence to assist the Jury conclude what it was.
  7. Almost immediately after that unlawful assault of him by her, she is, (method unknown) removed to the balcony and in that process she repetitively screams “No.” The Jury can conclude she did not want to be taken to the balcony.
  8. As soon as she is on the balcony, the door is shut and locked from the inside. Only he could have done that.
  9. There are now separated by that locked door.
  10. Within seconds, she disappears from his view.
  11. Neighbours saw her hanging from the balcony, and it seems her feet were pointing in to the building. A neighbour tells her to go back. She says nothing to a person in immediate communication with. The neighbour sees her fall, ricochet off other balconies, to the ground.
  12. Tostee leaves the building and has her phone in his pocket. We do not know how or why it got there.
  13. By the time he gets to ground level, he has failed in an attempt to call his Lawyer. Also within that time, first responders are at the scene.
  14. There is CCTV vision of him holding on object. This is not explained by the Crown, and the Jury can therefor discard it. To do otherwise is to speculate.
  15. He wanders off, calls his Father, gives a brief account of events, gets a piece of pizza, and eventually, is picked up by his Father.

Unless I have missed something, those are the facts which are established, beyond reasonable doubt, on the evidence.

Now, to the Law. The Crown Case is that when he removed her to the balcony, he knew that she was in such a state of fear, that his act of putting her there in that State was no different from a situation if he in fact physically tossed her over. Her state of fear, the Crown says, was because he had attempted to choke her. That is where the alleged choking comes into play, as she did not die of asphyxiation.
Okay, let’s go back to what we know about that alleged choking incident. Firstly, that it even occurred is not safe to conclude beyond reasonable doubt, as the expert forensic evidence is that there were no signs of it having occurred. So, it cannot be concluded reliably that he either had been throttling her with his hands, or by way of arm bar across her throat. But, what of the sounds on the tape. Well, as I have already said, no expert was called to assist the Jury interpret them, and that is curious and damning of the Crown case of itself. Why was there no expert on that sort of matter called? We do not know. So, if the Jury are not satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he was choking her, there goes the Crown lynch pin in the suggestion of heightened fear of death at his hands.

But, take it a step further for moot purposes only. Assume there was proof beyond reasonable doubt those sounds were of him throttling her. What do we know of what follows.

He ceases throttling her which may may not have been because he had managed to disarm her of the metal object. Maybe, he did not want to kill her by choking her to death. We don’t know, We do know he stopped.
Instead, he removed her to the balcony, goes back inside, shuts and locks the door.

The Crown says that, at this point, she had only one choice. Attempt to climb over the rail and escape from him. But, that flies in the face of other more obvious options which include, yell for assistance, stay exactly there and do nothing. He was no longer in her immediate presence and there was a closed glass door between them. She elects to attempt to climb down. She is told by a neighbour to go back. She ignores him.

So, on two important bases, the Murder charge is unsustainable. No choking incident was proven beyond reasonable doubt. Even if it was, when she was on the balcony, she had other safe options. She was not left with but one…..attempt to climb down.

Manslaughter. Well, again, the basic facts remain as above. In those circumstances, could a reasonable person, anticipate that W would attempt to climb down from a 14[SUP]th[/SUP] Floor balcony when there were other entirely safe options available. Not in my opinion, and I doubt the Jury will conclude that either.

Let me go home, Just let me go home. I would but you have been a bad girl.
Metal screwing or unscrewing before he left the apartment. Any ideas??
imo
 
Warriena verbalised perfectly that she felt she was in danger. I believe she tried to say "murder".
 
So true, my son was the same and for the threat of electronic games time out. :p

GT has learnt through the years how to express remorse in writing, he might even parrot his parent's expressions/words. Not a scrap of remorse in reality though. He will continue to break the law, he can't help himself. JMO

The prosecution claims Tostee has a ‘bizarre indifference to Ms Wright's death’ and that she had been affected on the night of her death by alcohol in the form of a ‘white spirit’ made by him.

At his bail hearing, prosecutors alleged he locked 26-year-old victim Warriena Wright outside on a 14th floor balcony and that was akin to locking someone in a trunk to suffocate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ion-alleged-balcony-murder.html#ixzz4NDN1gyFq
 
What is your authority for the proposition that there is a requirement for an "imminent threat" - the hallmark of manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another without the intent element - if his actions have CAUSED WW's death (they need not be the only cause) he is very much guilty of manslaughter IMO -

I'm out for the afternoon but will respond to this in depth later tonight.
 
I don't believe she ever intended to get blind drunk
They bought a 6 pack of beer, no mention of vodka in his messages beforehand
why would they spend money on beer if he had all that alcohol or ready? I think he waited till she was drunk enough that she'd be open to trying his homemade potion

Also, people are talking about her leaving without her phone, don't forget he had her bag too, money, id, passport, hotel key etc, no tourist would want to lose those things

......and her clothing. She would have had to walk home the 24mins to her hotel topless as some say she was half naked. What woman would want to do that at 2.30am in the morning. He had no right hiding/stealing those things from Rrie.
 
Warriena verbalised perfectly that she felt she was in danger. I believe she tried to say "murder".
Poss can you please point me in the direction to find that? I am not asking because I am making you a secretary or having a go at you , I unfortunately/fortunately didn't get to hear all the audio only what has been posted by media. TIA
 
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 13

Holt says the fact that she doesn't stop to assess her situation, that she climbs over a 14th floor balcony, shows how irrational.

But

Holt says "please" don't convict #tostee of murder or manslaughter because he had pizza.
0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 13

Holt says the fact that #tostee found Warriena's phone in his pocket, then calls it twice, is evidence of shock if ever there was.
0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 13

Holt says #tostee left the building, wandered around. He didn't run. Says this is consistent with shock.

https://twitter.com/KateKyriacou

Oh lordy
 
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