Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #8

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Elde Fruit said:
Notwithstanding that you find it 'ridiculous, the Jury is duty bound to act within the instructions of the Trial Judge. They are not free to go on wild speculative excursions of their own outside the evidence presented at the Trial, and those instructions. If the Crown has lead evidence which leaves gaps, it is not for the Jury to fill them. That would be speculation.
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Justice Byrne quoted Hollywood director Billy Wilder to warn the jury "hindsight is always twenty-twenty".

He said they must not judge Mr Tostee's actions on that fatal night if he had the benefit of safety and time to make decisions.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...awyer-doesnt-prove-guilt-20161017-gs3x3x.html
 
shultz said:
I think the jury would like to convict but realise they can't actually do it. That's why they're asking silly questions.
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Respectfully the twelve jurors, who are laypersons when it comes to the law, are asking questions of which they require further clarification and direction from the judge. They are performing their civic duty.
 
Elde Fruit said:
Notwithstanding that you find it 'ridiculous, the Jury is duty bound to act within the instructions of the Trial Judge. They are not free to go on wild speculative excursions of their own outside the evidence presented at the Trial , and those instructions. If the Crown has lead evidence which leaves gaps, it is not for the Jury to fill them. That would be speculation.
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So why would they present the evidence at all? I find it odd that they present the CCTV footage, phone conversations etc from after the fall, but then instruct them to ignore it. Why would they present it in the first place?
 
Makara said:
Gable Tostee jury seeks more answers
OCTOBER 17, 20165:46PM

Addressing jurors on a range of arguments that arose at trial, Justice John Byrne urged them not to consider Tostee’s conduct after Wright fatally plunged from his balcony as any indicator of guilt.

CCTV footage shown to the jury in the trial last week showed Tostee leaving his apartment building by the basement carpark, so as to avoid emergency services who had raced to the scene, in the early hours of August 8, 2014.

The above is more to the point in regard to the jury being instructed to ignore Tostee's actions after Warriena's death. The judge didn't instruct the jury to do that at all. Justice Byrne urged the jury not to consider Tostee's failure to call OOO, calling his lawyer, slinking around in the carpark and waddling off to order pizza was not indicative of guilt. It was more likely shock that caused this weird behaviour. (Yeah, right!). Justice Byrne did not at any time tell the jury to ignore what was in the CCTV footage.

Thank Christ for that!
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Thank goodness! They are not stepping outside the judge's directions then.

Guess that makes them 'not-silly questions' then, hey?
 
Freya1977 said:
So why would they present the evidence at all? I find it odd that they present the CCTV footage, phone conversations etc from after the fall, but then instruct them to ignore it. Why would they present it in the first place?
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BBM.

The answer is..................context. Simple as that.
 
Freya1977 said:
So why would they present the evidence at all? I find it odd that they present the CCTV footage, phone conversations etc from after the fall, but then instruct them to ignore it. Why would they present it in the first place?
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Good question. :thinking:
 
I agree with this.

The Jury can ONLY decide on the evidence provided in Court.

Why the person (supposedly) as Foreman asked for Tostee's age and so forth? Who knows. It IS against the rules.

I have been on a Jury and it was an awful experience.
 
SouthAussie said:
Well, if I was Warriena's family I would try to find a top lawyer who wanted to work pro bono, or raise a whole bunch of money via crowd funding and pay him/her, and see if I could push this to an appeal (if he walks). Because it is absurd that they cannot consider all the evidence.

In Gittany's trial, the judge considered ALL the evidence, and gave a 5 hour verdict to answer it all ... so it could not successfully go to appeal.
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If Gable is acquitted that's it, there are no avenues for appeal. A jury acquittal is absolute.

Ausgirl said:
jcb - just nudging you on this
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Apologies, I brushed over this initially. Yes it's possible but assuming the jury are wanting to know if it's a weapon or something that could be used as such, they would be speculating outside of the Crown argument impermissibly (see below). I'm still convinced it's his keys on a lanyard though.

Makara said:
The above is more to the point in regard to the jury being instructed to ignore Tostee's actions after Warriena's death. The judge didn't instruct the jury to do that at all. Justice Byrne urged the jury not to consider Tostee's failure to call OOO, calling his lawyer, slinking around in the carpark and waddling off to order pizza was not indicative of guilt. It was more likely shock that caused this weird behaviour. (Yeah, right!). Justice Byrne did not at any time tell the jury to ignore what was in the CCTV footage.

Thank Christ for that!
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I agree that the direction given was a little ambiguous (and will probably be clarified in the morning upon resumption) but it's my opinion that Justice Byrne intended the phrase "conduct" to include anything that happened once Warriena fell. He specifically included not calling police etc, but made no exclusions such as "you can still take into account the CCTV footage". It can also be difficult to grasp the context through Twitter snippets as well obviously, perhaps more was said that was not reported. In any case the CCTV footage formed no part of the Crown case (outside of identifying Gable which has been established beyond reasonable doubt obviously) so it is not open to the jury to consider it.
 
Freya1977 said:
So why would they present the evidence at all? I find it odd that they present the CCTV footage, phone conversations etc from after the fall, but then instruct them to ignore it. Why would they present it in the first place?
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Freya, the jury wasn't instructed to ignore the CCTV evidence. They were told not to assume Tostee was guilty simply because he didn't call OOO, phoned his lawyer instead, used the carpark exit from his building as opposed to using the front entrance where Warriena's body lay. Oh and then going off to buy pizza for himself. All of that cannot be construed as a sign of guilt apparently. Shock perhaps but not guilt! On the other hand, what Tostee had concealed in his pants and later removed, as can be seen on the CCTV footage, is another thing altogether and the jury can pick that apart little piece by little piece, just as some would pick the olives off a pizza.
 
Freya1977 said:
So why would they present the evidence at all? I find it odd that they present the CCTV footage, phone conversations etc from after the fall, but then instruct them to ignore it. Why would they present it in the first place?
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I agree it is odd that they would be instructed to ignore the evidence. imo
The telescope and bracket were submitted as evidence as well.
I am glad a sharp eyed juror or jurors was looking closely at the cctv.
I guess they may be wondering what the metal screwing an unscrewing is on Gabe's recording as well. That would be a Tostee post action though. Wouldn't it?
 
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