Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #65

[Blues Clues]

I wonder what kind of tree it was that FFC suggested WT climb. They all look like Eucalypts to me, and they are not really climbable. Tall and straight with no branching until they are too high off the ground to climb, especially for a three year old.

A Celerywood tree. Pop it in the search bar and you'll find discussion about it.

 

[JayWill]

A Celerywood tree. Pop it in the search bar and you'll find discussion about it.

Thanks for that. I had never heard of that, but in so saying that tree does not look climbable for a 3 year old to me.

 

[Tench]

I was under the impression they weren't allowed to have contact after he was taken off the case?

Close contact is not forbidden, it seems.

“After testifying and during a breaking in proceedings, she approached Jubelin and said ‘I don’t care about coronavirus’ before embracing him.”

Ex-police officer Gary Jubelin fined for illegal recording

 

[Airiam]

Probably because she thought he was a “man of integrity”, despite his having recently receiving a criminal conviction:

Ex-police officer Gary Jubelin fined for illegal recording

My question more refers to the reason why GJ would have any information of note.

GJs material evidence had already been submitted to the coroner, along with all of the investigative information contained in taskforce files which were already available to the coroner.

I'm trying to understand why GJ could have anything to add to this proceeding?

 

[JayWill]

Probably because she thought he was a “man of integrity”, despite his having recently receiving a criminal conviction:

Ex-police officer Gary Jubelin fined for illegal recording

And I am sure Gary Jubelin was, and is a man of integrity. He just forgot his professionalism for a while, IMO when he became too emotionally embroiled in this case. MOO
ETA. And I do understand the FF's admiration and reliance on him. But it was too close for objectivity in both cases. IMO

 

[they'll get you]

Yes!!!! I found this reaction from them extremely strange at the time too bear bear.

I would be thrilled if Police had a new lead!

Why would you rubbish the new info when you did not know what it was?

Although IMO it is the least likely scenario, how could they be 100% certain that William did not simply wander off into the bush and get lost and succumb to the elements?

Why push the abduction angle again when from what I have seen with everything in this case there is ZERO evidence of an abduction taking place?

We are being driven to believe an abduction took place because we have been told that "William is not a wanderer".

If William was not a wanderer why did you jump in the car and drive to the Riding School?

As a last resort I would've done the same thing. It beats walking!

She thought someone must have taken him so I'd try to cover as much ground as I could as well.
Anyone from kids on bikes to a vehicle could have him.

I used to deliver small articles for AustPost and you'd be surprised how many parents rev their kids up to watch out for the van.
I'd pull up and kids would bombard me and if I'd open up the sliding door they'd be climbing in! I would chip the parents and the kids not to run out onto the street.

Look, I'm looking at all sides here and trying to walk in someone else's shoes, William might have been looking out for daddies car or he might have been used to the AusPost van or bikes in the burbs of Sydney.

I also remember sweet little 2 yr old James Bulger who was walked out of a shopping center by two young boys. What mother would've thought?
Honestly the crap that goes through a person's mind during this would be total overload.

 

[JayWill]

Close contact is not forbidden, it seems.

“After testifying and during a breaking in proceedings, she approached Jubelin and said ‘I don’t care about coronavirus’ before embracing him.”

Ex-police officer Gary Jubelin fined for illegal recording

Different rules for different people.

 

[they'll get you]

And I am sure Gary Jubelin was, and is a man of integrity. He just forgot his professionalism for a while, IMO when he became too emotionally embroiled in this case. MOO
ETA. And I do understand the FF's admiration and reliance on him. But it was too close for objectivity in both cases. IMO

Jubelin explained that he made the recordings to protect his lawful interests in case Mr Savage harmed himself or made any allegations against Jubelin in the future. Magistrate Hudson stated that the strategy of pursuing Mr Savage was approved by Jubelin's superiors, but the illegal recording was not.
Recording conversation without consent.

Bring on America's first amendment to Australia where anyone can tape/record anything the eye can see.
I've recorded a conversation before for imediate dictation for my memory of events of a crime.

 

[Blues Clues]

I was just noticing recently that the list of females on death row in the USA includes many who murdered their children.

Interesting facts about women in US prisons who have been wrongfully convicted.

4. Two hundred and forty-one women have been exonerated since 1989.

Of the 2,750 people who have been exonerated in the last three decades, about 9% were women, according to data from the National Registry of Exonerations.

5. Most female exonerees were convicted of crimes that never occurred.

Nearly 73% of women exonerated in the last three decades were wrongfully convicted of crimes that never took place at all, according to data from the National Registry of Exonerations. These “crimes” included events determined to be accidents, deaths by suicide and crimes that were fabricated.

6. About 40% of female exonerees were wrongly convicted of harming their children or other loved ones in their care.

Almost one-third of female exonerees were convicted of crimes in which the victim was a child, according to data from the National Registry of Exonerations.

These include nine women who were convicted of shaking a baby to death. Thousands of people have been accused, and many convicted, of harming children by violently shaking them and causing a condition known as Abusive Head Trauma (previously referred to as “shaken baby syndrome”). However, scientists and medical experts have said the three symptoms used to diagnose Abusive Head Trauma — diffuse brain swelling, subdural hemorrhage and retinal hemorrhages — can all result from many other causes, including diseases, falling at home, and even the birthing process, and that the concept of “shaken baby syndrome” has never been validated.

8 Facts About Incarcerated and Wrongfully Convicted Women You Should Know (innocenceproject.org)

 

[sleepinoz]

I wonder what kind of tree it was that FFC suggested WT climb. They all look like Eucalypts to me, and they are not really climbable. Tall and straight with no branching until they are too high off the ground to climb, especially for a three year old.

For those wondering about the Tree - From thread #10 this post refers to it as a Celery Wood Tree.



ETA: I see Blues Clues has already answered this.

 

[purpleandgreen]

NO ALIBI: Shock twist in investigation into missing toddler William Tyrrell

“7NEWS understands police asked Abbott about his movements on the day William disappeared.

He has been unable to find someone to vouch for his movements but maintains he had nothing to do with the disappearance.

Case witness Steve, whose true identity is suppressed by a court order, claims a lot of evidence points to Abbott.

“I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.

When asked whether the car claim supports evidence supplied by William’s foster mother, Steve replied: “100 per cent.”

BBM I read this article very recently and up until the paragraph I highlighted it seemed a little convincing. IMO it comes down to whether or not the cars seen by FFC were really there. If they were, then maybe there is reason to believe the abduction theory. But given the current line of investigation and the inconsistencies to the FFC’s timeline of events, I’ve put that theory to the side. IMO there isn’t enough evidence (if any) to support the abduction theory at all.

William Tyrrell's foster-mother has told her story – this is what she said

Nor is there any evidence to support that she was responsible for his death. IMO. <modsnip>

 

[JayWill]

Jubelin explained that he made the recordings to protect his lawful interests in case Mr Savage harmed himself or made any allegations against Jubelin in the future. Magistrate Hudson stated that the strategy of pursuing Mr Savage was approved by Jubelin's superiors, but the illegal recording was not.
Recording conversation without consent.

Bring on America's first amendment to Australia where anyone can tape/record anything the eye can see.
I've recorded a conversation before for imediate dictation for my memory of events of a crime.

It doesn't matter why he did it. It was not lawful and he was there to uphold laws.
And yes, we would love the US' freedom of speech where anyone can call political figures paedophiles and criminals, without offering proof and with no recriminations. No thank you. We do not need that.

 

[they'll get you]

What is the point in reintroducing old hashed 'theories' if there is no evidence to support it?

Isnt that what we do here though?

Theorise backed on evidence?

And even though I asked for some supporting information nothing has been stated.
So I have to assume there isn't anything to suggest reintroducing FA into the picture.

moo

eta extra

There's just no evidence on how William disappeared or where he is.

 

[JayWill]

Nor is there any evidence to support that she was responsible for his death. IMO. Despite the fact that that's what a lot of people want it to be, it appears. IMO.

No one has said that she is responsible for his death. Investigation is just that. It is not a judgment.

 

[they'll get you]

and the abduction seed was planted from day one

Hi there bear, if a toddler was there moments before, he's not in sight, he's not in the house and he's not a wanderer.

Well I'm no Rhodes Scholar but my mind would assume someone has grabbed him.

I haven't had a kid taken but someone took my dog.
A school cross-country walked past my house, I went to the school and someone snitched that the dog was taken buy train many suburbs away. I got her back.
I don't consider this irrelevant

 

[Tench]

And I am sure Gary Jubelin was, and is a man of integrity. He just forgot his professionalism for a while, IMO when he became too emotionally embroiled in this case. MOO
ETA. And I do understand the FF's admiration and reliance on him. But it was too close for objectivity in both cases. IMO

I have no opinion on his integrity, but either his or Det Sen Const Gallyot’s evidence at the trial is untrue. I assume the magistrate preferred the latter’s version.
Jubelin directed taped call 'not be saved'

 

[Wexford]

Spedding had an alibi for years , and police ignored it

Did they? I seem to remember it took them some time to find someone at the coffee shop or assembly that actually remembered him being there. But I don't have a link for that so that will have to be my own opinion.

 

[JayWill]

Hello bear, if a kid was there moments before, he's not in sight, he's not in the house and he's not a wanderer.

Well I'm no Rhodes Scholar but my mind would assume someone has grabbed him.

If you believe that someone could spirit a child out of a backyard within metres of three people and minutes after they had last heard him and no one saw or heard it?

 

[they'll get you]

FA has exhibited brazen behaviour in the past. imo

You are too kind SA.

Brazen does not cut it for me.

 

[Wexford]

Hi there bear, if a toddler was there moments before, he's not in sight, he's not in the house and he's not a wanderer.

Well I'm no Rhodes Scholar but my mind would assume someone has grabbed him.

I haven't had a kid taken but someone took my dog.
A school cross-country walked past my house, I went to the school and someone snitched that the dog was taken buy train many suburbs away. I got her back.
I don't consider this irrelevant

Especially a foster child who had been hidden from authorities before. It would have been my first thought too.