Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[Travelling Wilbury]

I doubt this Podcast provides any answers IMO.

I got the impression it was put together to keep interest in the podcast. There was no further information nor relevant commentary worthy of including in there that couldn’t be found in any online news sites

 

[sleepinoz]

I got the impression it was put together to keep interest in the podcast. There was no further information nor relevant commentary worthy of including in there that couldn’t be found in any online news sites

Maybe she wanted to update before going on Maternity leave.

 

[SouthAussie]

One thing that I noticed in the podcast is that (legal opinion from media and defamation law specialist Professor David Rolph) if NSWPOL don't do some explaining at some point in time, there may be a lawsuit against them.

They 'invited' the media to the search with pre-search press releases.
They gavc the media photos that NSWPOL had taken from the search - even though the media already had ringside seats and their own photos.
They quietly confirmed to the media that FM was 'their only POI' (while they officially said that they had only one unnamed POI), but they have yet to provide a reason for this .... other than unstated new information.

In other words, they deliberately made this a highly public search (just like Spedding's), a so-far fruitless one, that has allowed speculation to run rampant .... with no given reason.

So, if they continue to let this damaging speculation to run rampant - without providing clear reason - it may be lawsuit time.

(Lloyd Rayney was given as a defamation suit example, in the legal opinion.)

 

[Doesitmakesense]

One thing that I noticed in the podcast is that (legal opinion from media and defamation law specialist Professor David Rolph) if NSWPOL don't do some explaining at some point in time, there may be a lawsuit against them.

They 'invited' the media to the search with pre-search press releases.
They gavc the media photos that NSWPOL had taken from the search - even though the media already had ringside seats and their own photos.
They quietly confirmed to the media that FM was 'their only POI' (while they officially said that they had only one unnamed POI), but they have yet to provide a reason for this .... other than unstated new information.

In other words, they deliberately made this a highly public search (just like Spedding's), a so-far fruitless one, that has allowed speculation to run rampant .... with no given reason.

So, if they continue to let this damaging speculation to run rampant - without providing clear reason - it may be lawsuit time.

(Lloyd Rayney was given as a defamation suit example, in the legal opinion.)

Could the FP really pursue a lawsuit though? As the general public don't know who they are, so it's not like their names have been dragged through the mud or that they're recognizable

 

[SouthAussie]

Could the FP really pursue a lawsuit though? As the general public don't know who they are, so it's not like their names have been dragged through the mud or that they're recognizable

I think that media and defamation law specialist Professor David Rolph likely knows his stuff. imo

He is apparently teaching this specific type of law at University of Sydney Law School.


Also:
"was the editor of the Sydney Law Review, one of Australia’s leading law journals."
"currently serves on the editorial boards of the Media and Arts Law Review, the Communications Law Bulletin, Communications Law and the International Journal of the Semiotics of Law"
"a regular columnist for the Gazette of Law and Journalism"
"a frequent media commentary on a range of media law issues."

Staff Profile

 

[JLZ]

The walk-through video for MFC* seems to have people's names bleeped out, so maybe the same is true in FFC's walk-through? e.g. maybe she described where she went by using people's names instead of the name of the road e.g. "I drove past A's place then B's place and etc"?

In FFC's triple-0 call to police she was unable to recognise "Ellendale Crescent" (off Benaroon Drive, and named on a signpost she would have passed every time she visited her parents' house): see my post thread 57, post 144. I think it's possible FFC had never previously needed to talk about the local roads and had not given them much attention.

Also, there are two articles in the Kendall Chronicle which are relevant if FFC did use names of people in the walk-through, IMO, but presumably I can't link to the articles or cite them because they identify FFC's late relatives and some of their community interests. My opinion only:

1. M**** was the name of a Kendall person who had died a couple of years previously
2. At a birthday party for one of FFC's relatives several years previously, the party goers were asked that instead of giving presents they donate to two local charities, one of which was the "riding school". From this I'm just guessing that it's possible FFC knew about the "riding school" and where it was or who was involved in it, which might have led to her being able to describe how she got there when searching for William even if she hadn't known the name of the road.

MOO

*Re MFC's walk-through video: for example, see William Tyrrell's disappearance inquest shown police video, Mercury, 25 March 2019
There's a bleep at 0:07 when MFC points to the back deck (talking about FGM?) and about 4:04 (talking about FFC calling police). Note that the video length is 5:12 (parts of it are different to a 7:05 minute version via Daily Mail Australia's YouTube) and for me this video will only play if cookies and advertisements are allowed.

BBM. Just about the bolded part, even if FFC didn't know the names of the roads prior to William's disappearance (although not knowing Ellendale is not, to me, and indication that she didn't know Batar) it's hard to see how she could not have a handle on all the local names six days into the search. Surely the family was taking an interest in where all the searching was happening, and talking about possibilities, where William might have walked to, which way his abductor might have gone.

 

[stormbird]

BBM. Just about the bolded part, even if FFC didn't know the names of the roads prior to William's disappearance (although not knowing Ellendale is not, to me, and indication that she didn't know Batar) it's hard to see how she could not have a handle on all the local names six days into the search. Surely the family was taking an interest in where all the searching was happening, and talking about possibilities, where William might have walked to, which way his abductor might have gone.

Good point.

I'd been thinking of FFC in the walk-through as being the same person who made the triple-0 call. But you're right: the six days in the middle must have been full of people talking to her about the local area and the searches, so it does seem likely she would have been more knowledgeable at the end of the week than she was at the start.

 

[stormbird]

A small dumbness from the podcast, a mistake repeated by various reporters over various years: from about 1:31 minutes, Lia talks about the police searches in Kendall at the end of last year: "Dozens of officers were involved, along with SES crews who helped with clearing the bush."
- "Another dead end?", Where's William Tyrrell? Apple Podcasts, 28 Jan 2022

SES crews?

Take a look at the shirts (photo from "Police end latest search for William Tyrrell, after searching bushland and waterways near Kendall", ABC News, 15 Dec 2021)

1. yellow shirts (not SES orange)
2. they say NSW RURAL FIRE SERVICE (not State Emergency Service)

RFS. Not SES.

Both of those organisations do so much good work for the community, sometimes in really terrible conditions. IMO they deserve at least enough respect to get their names right.

 

[Awakening]

IMO I find the FFFC puts her stentances together in weird manner. She speaks somewhat formally, but structure and words used just don't work as well as something else would have. Did the FFFC parents speak English as a second language?

Another possibility;

Conversation with an Adult with High functioning autism

People with High functioning autism (Hfa) generally lack those abilities. Their intense preoccupation with a narrow subject, one-sided verbosity, restricted prosody, intonation, and motor clumsiness are typical of the condition. This failure to react appropriately to social interaction appears as a disregard for other people's feelings and comes across as insensitive.

The abnormalities of Hfa speech include:

• verbosity
• abrupt transitions
• literal interpretations and miscomprehension of nuance
• use of metaphor meaningful only to the speaker
• auditory perception deficits
• unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech
• repetitive speech and oddities in volume, pitch, intonation, prosody, and rhythm
• echolalia (repetition of what has been said to them)
• inappropriate response or non-response
• speech is immature and unimaginative

Section 14 Mental Health Application - Astor Legal

A Section 14 application can be used by a person charged with a criminal or traffic offence to avoid a criminal record. However, the accused must prove that they suffer from a mental health impairment or cognitive impairment.

What is a Cognitive Impairment?

• Intellectual disability,
• Borderline intellectual functioning
• Dementia
• Acquired brain injury,
• Drug or alcohol related brain damage, including foetal alcohol spectrum disorder, or
• Autism spectrum disorder.

A possibility IMO.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Another possibility;

Conversation with an Adult with High functioning autism

People with High functioning autism (Hfa) generally lack those abilities. Their intense preoccupation with a narrow subject, one-sided verbosity, restricted prosody, intonation, and motor clumsiness are typical of the condition. This failure to react appropriately to social interaction appears as a disregard for other people's feelings and comes across as insensitive.

The abnormalities of Hfa speech include:

• verbosity
• abrupt transitions
• literal interpretations and miscomprehension of nuance
• use of metaphor meaningful only to the speaker
• auditory perception deficits
• unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech
• repetitive speech and oddities in volume, pitch, intonation, prosody, and rhythm
• echolalia (repetition of what has been said to them)
• inappropriate response or non-response
• speech is immature and unimaginative

Section 14 Mental Health Application - Astor Legal

A Section 14 application can be used by a person charged with a criminal or traffic offence to avoid a criminal record. However, the accused must prove that they suffer from a mental health impairment or cognitive impairment.

What is a Cognitive Impairment?

• Intellectual disability,
• Borderline intellectual functioning
• Dementia
• Acquired brain injury,
• Drug or alcohol related brain damage, including foetal alcohol spectrum disorder, or
• Autism spectrum disorder.

A possibility IMO.

Good point. I still believe MO that if they can use this to diminish responsibility for an assult on LT, that then someome should be investigating how they were ever approved to be foster carers. IMO it could all domino back to the state being responsible for WT disappearance as he was placed with carers who are in the eyes of the law not mentally competant

 

[Warshawski]

Another possibility;

Conversation with an Adult with High functioning autism

People with High functioning autism (Hfa) generally lack those abilities. Their intense preoccupation with a narrow subject, one-sided verbosity, restricted prosody, intonation, and motor clumsiness are typical of the condition. This failure to react appropriately to social interaction appears as a disregard for other people's feelings and comes across as insensitive.

The abnormalities of Hfa speech include:

• verbosity
• abrupt transitions
• literal interpretations and miscomprehension of nuance
• use of metaphor meaningful only to the speaker
• auditory perception deficits
• unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech
• repetitive speech and oddities in volume, pitch, intonation, prosody, and rhythm
• echolalia (repetition of what has been said to them)
• inappropriate response or non-response
• speech is immature and unimaginative

Section 14 Mental Health Application - Astor Legal

A Section 14 application can be used by a person charged with a criminal or traffic offence to avoid a criminal record. However, the accused must prove that they suffer from a mental health impairment or cognitive impairment.

What is a Cognitive Impairment?

• Intellectual disability,
• Borderline intellectual functioning
• Dementia
• Acquired brain injury,
• Drug or alcohol related brain damage, including foetal alcohol spectrum disorder, or
• Autism spectrum disorder.

A possibility IMO.

Good point certainly, but then if that’s the situation with FFFC, and they are suggesting that ‘mental illness’ led to the assault on LT from which charges have been laid, then imo it raises a whole heap more questions. . .

 

[Warshawski]

Good point. I still believe MO that if they can use this to diminish responsibility for an assult on LT, that then someome should be investigating how they were ever approved to be foster carers. IMO it could all domino back to the state being responsible for WT disappearance as he was placed with carers who are in the eyes of the law not mentally competant

sorry - I just posted same

 

[Awakening]

I don't think having a mental illness or other health issue necessarily precludes you from becoming a foster carer.

It's quite common for people to be on antidepressants these days or to have some sort of history with depression or anxiety.

There are neurodiverse conditions: ADHD, autism and you can still foster.

As well as physical health issues; asthma, coeliac disease etc.

People with disabilities can also foster.

I think it might be different if the person had a current severe uncontrolled mental illness.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

Good point. I still believe MO that if they can use this to diminish responsibility for an assult on LT, that then someome should be investigating how they were ever approved to be foster carers. IMO it could all domino back to the state being responsible for WT disappearance as he was placed with carers who are in the eyes of the law not mentally competant

It comes across as a defence tactic to beat a charge, not as a 100% plausible excuse. If such cognitive impairment was an issue, why and how did they become foster parents.
IMO they exhibit a strong sense of control and may be stress has stemmed from losing some of it, not from cognitive impairment

 

[Doesitmakesense]

It comes across as a defence tactic to beat a charge, not as a 100% plausible excuse. If such cognitive impairment was an issue, why and how did they become foster parents.
IMO they exhibit a strong sense of control and may be stress has stemmed from losing some of it, not from cognitive impairment

Oh I completely agree, I think it's a defense tactic. I was more going along to replying to using high functioning ASD as a defence, that then leads to it but being a long term, life long diagnosis and not a situational condition IMO

 

[Doesitmakesense]

I don't think having a mental illness or other health issue necessarily precludes you from becoming a foster carer.

It's quite common for people to be on antidepressants these days or to have some sort of history with depression or anxiety.

There are neurodiverse conditions: ADHD, autism and you can still foster.

As well as physical health issues; asthma, coeliac disease etc.

People with disabilities can also foster.

I think it might be different if the person had a current severe uncontrolled mental illness.

Yes I agree with you. But IMO if you are using the mental health act to remove and diminish liability for crimes committed, then that person surely should not be handed the responsibility of caring for a minor, when they are staying they are not responsible for their own actions IMO

 

[Awakening]

Yes I agree with you. But IMO if you are using the mental health act to remove and diminish liability for crimes committed, then that person surely should not be handed the responsibility of caring for a minor, when they are staying they are not responsible for their own actions IMO

But it's possible they didn't get such a diagnosis until sometime after his disappearance.

It's also possible that they had no such illness or impairment until recently.

For example the foster carers could have had perfect physical and mental health until their foster child went missing presumed deceased and they then developed depression, anxiety, PTSD or some such thing.

 

[Megnut]

If she were to be afflicted as her mother, how would that impact the current charges and past recall?

Jmo

 

[Doesitmakesense]

But it's possible they didn't get such a diagnosis until sometime after his disappearance.

It's also possible that they had no such illness or impairment until recently.

For example the foster carers could have had perfect physical and mental health until their foster child went missing presumed deceased and they then developed depression, anxiety, PTSD or some such thing.

Yes I agree with all that. . I was initially replying to using high functioning ASD as a defence, that then leads to it but being a long term, life long diagnosis and not a situational or new condition IMO

 

[Wexford]

From when we first heard that little William was missing I always thought it strange that there was very little to no speculation about the family. Like when a spouse goes missing, most of our first thoughts are “the other spouse did it”. When kids go missing, most of the time our first thoughts are “parents or boyfriend/girlfriend of parent did it” even reading between the lines in media we get pushed in a certain train of thought. This case went to abduction right away. That has always bothered me. What was it that cleared the foster family at the start? If WT disappeared from a low income housing estate where he lived with his mum and her boyfriend would they have been cleared so fast at the start? What was it that pushed the pedofile abduction theory so early on? Moo

I don't remember the exact timing of it but the recent visit from the a repairman was discovered by someone that knew him and historic charges against him were brought to light.