Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #68

[Travelling Wilbury]

It would be good to have it officially confirmed.

Because 9.37 to 10.30 (FF arrival) is 53 minutes which seems like not very much time to hide a body and destroy evidence by yourself. It's not impossible but seems pretty remote IMO.

Not saying a body was hidden but 53 mins is nearly an hour. In the panic and heat of the moment things would move quickly. And perpetrators would want to achieve this quickly as to not arouse suspicions.

 

[JLZ]

This article is the only article that states this, and the article doesn't carry a Jurno's name. IMO it was written by a staffer not a known Jurno.

With additional info from CO's book and other articles, I will choose not to believe this.

Thank you for the correction, and I have wondered too whether it is a mistake by the writer, either of the simple typo kind or a misinterpretation of actual data. But then the question would be whether the police have the same interpretation.

 

[Awakening]

I thought FF's car was captured on CCTV from the tennis club just before 9? I've been googling but can't find it now.

 

[JLZ]

Not saying a body was hidden but 53 mins is nearly an hour. In the panic and heat of the moment things would move quickly. And perpetrators would want to achieve this quickly as to not arouse suspicions.

Consider though that the time for calling police was at foster family's discretion. It wasn't an exact deadline known in advance, but potentially stretchable.

Edit: I read you again and I find you're saying something different from what I thought.

 

[Awakening]

Not saying a body was hidden but 53 mins is nearly an hour. In the panic and heat of the moment things would move quickly. And perpetrators would want to achieve this quickly as to not arouse suspicions.

True. I've seen on true crime shows people committing murder and destroying evidence in a very short amount of time. But normally they are caught within days or weeks.

It would be extraordinary for one person to pull this off in 53 minutes or less and get away with it for 7 years. But sure it's possible and why I'm on the fence.

 

[Awakening]

Consider though that the time for calling police was at foster family's discretion. It wasn't an exact deadline known in advance, but potentially stretchable.

Edit: I read you again and I find you're saying something different from what I thought.

Maybe FGM or LT were asking where he was? Or FM anticipated that they soon would.

 

[SouthAussie]

It would be good to have it officially confirmed.

Because 9.37 to 10.30 (FF arrival) is 53 minutes which seems like not very much time to hide a body and destroy evidence by yourself. It's not impossible but seems pretty remote IMO.

Made even more remote by the probability that even if William did have some kind of accident, it likely didn't happen at 9:38am ... immediately after the 9:37am photos.

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

If the FPs story is believed then a predator just happened to be on the street at the exact time he ran around the house and in the space of a few minutes had gotten him into a car and driven off or grabbed him and wandered into the bush, and not one person heard or saw anything directly.

I think it is/was felt that it is more likely that there was a lurker. Someone who had reason to be on the street, had heard and/or seen the children playing and running around the outside of the house.

In one of the searches (I think in June 2016) they forensically scraped all of the area around FGM's house. Possibly looking for cigarette butts or some other evidence of a lurker. This search was done in conjunction with the Coroner IIRC. She visited the site during the search.

(It was a 4-week search, they searched more than that area, but that was part of it.)

 

[Akai]

This article is the only article that states this, and the article doesn't carry a Jurno's name. IMO it was written by a staffer not a known Jurno.

With additional info from CO's book and other articles, I will choose not to believe this.

Yes, I thought the CCTV showed him on the road before 9am. That's a HUGE conflict. They cannot both be accurate, and there is very limited information about that 9:30am, which was also only revealed in November last year. I actually wonder if both could be correct, but police discounted the 9:30am because the lack of phone reception rendered it inaccurate.

 

[Couldbe]

This article is the only article that states this, and the article doesn't carry a Jurno's name. IMO it was written by a staffer not a known Jurno.

With additional info from CO's book and other articles, I will choose not to believe this.

Found this link to The Guardian Article 19 November 2021

William Tyrrell: how new evidence revived the case and triggered a fresh search effort

“William’s foster father had left the home at 9.30am to drive out of the town to find better mobile reception for a Skype call and to fill a script at a chemist – actions which have been verified by police.”

JMO... Would it be possible that MFC made two trips ..... first left at 8.40am then returned to the house and left again at 9,30am?

 

[Awakening]

Found this link to The Guardian Article 19 November 2021

William Tyrrell: how new evidence revived the case and triggered a fresh search effort

“William’s foster father had left the home at 9.30am to drive out of the town to find better mobile reception for a Skype call and to fill a script at a chemist – actions which have been verified by police.”

JMO... Would it be possible that MFC made two trips ..... first left at 8.40am then returned to the house and left again at 9,30am?

If hypothetically, WT was killed between 9.15 and 9.30, then his remains could be anywhere between Kendall and Laurieton?

 

[Akai]

I think it is felt that it is more likely that there was a lurker. Someone who had reason to be on the street, had heard and/or seen the children playing and running around the outside of the house.

In one of the searches (I think in June 2016) they forensically scraped all of the area around FGM's house. Possibly looking for cigarette butts or some other evidence of a lurker. This search was done in conjunction with the Coroner IIRC. She visited the site during the search.

I think that the scenario in terms of time is the same regardless of whether it is a lurker or someone who was just driving past, as in, I was including both in my statement. They had to happen to be in exactly the right spot when William emerged around the house, with absolutely no guarantees there would be this opportunity. They could have turned up at any time - 4 hours beforehand, or 5 minutes beforehand - but there was apparently one, and only one, opportunity to get him. Then they still had to act with the same speed as anyone else.

I'm not sure someone who was lurking would have been there for ages. The longer they are there the more chance they have of being seen. Plus prior to that they would have seen the kids being thoroughly supervised outside. But anyway, that's really beside the point. I don't think the likelihood of one scenario is greater or less than any of the others when looking at just the time available. Except the missing one - if he'd simply wandered off I think the time to do that and not be seen or ultimately found makes it more unlikely than the others.

 

[SouthAussie]

If hypothetically, WT was killed between 9.15 and 9.30, then his remains could be anywhere between Kendall and Laurieton?

Except for the photo.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think that the scenario in terms of time is the same regardless of whether it is a lurker or someone who was just driving past, as in, I was including both in my statement. They had to happen to be in exactly the right spot when William emerged around the house, with absolutely no guarantees there would be this opportunity. They could have turned up at any time - 4 hours beforehand, or 5 minutes beforehand - but there was apparently one, and only one, opportunity to get him. Then they still had to act with the same speed as anyone else.

I'm not sure someone who was lurking would have been there for ages. The longer they are there the more chance they have of being seen. Plus prior to that they would have seen the kids being thoroughly supervised outside. But anyway, that's really beside the point. I don't think the likelihood of one scenario is greater or less than any of the others when looking at just the time available. Except the missing one - if he'd simply wandered off I think the time to do that and not be seen or ultimately found makes it more unlikely than the others.

As has been said before ... when two worlds collide. A once in a decade crime.

There was so much that didn't happen on the street that morning, that often did. A regular jogger didn't jog that way that morning. The lady across the street's daughter didn't come for her usual visit. There really wasn't anyone around to see anyone lurking in some obscured position.

 

[Akai]

Found this link to The Guardian Article 19 November 2021

William Tyrrell: how new evidence revived the case and triggered a fresh search effort

“William’s foster father had left the home at 9.30am to drive out of the town to find better mobile reception for a Skype call and to fill a script at a chemist – actions which have been verified by police.”

JMO... Would it be possible that MFC made two trips ..... first left at 8.40am then returned to the house and left again at 9,30am?

This information about the mobile phone records only emerged in November 2021. It has had limited publication, although with both news and The Guardian that makes it a bit more likely it came from a source alongside other things about the investigation.

You'd assume, wouldn't you, that this is something police would have checked at the beginning. But then, they didn't check that photo properly, whatever the outcome of that investigation is. Is it possible that they didn't check this and it emerged later when the new team started going over things?

And therefore, is this relevant to the direction of the new investigation and the "false & misleading evidence" charges. I simply cannot see how the data could show he left at 9:30am but they have him on CCTV at 8:40am and that is the same trip. So yes, did he indeed make two trips away from the house? Did he have two phones?

 

[Akai]

As has been said before ... when two worlds collide. A once in a decade crime.

There was so much that didn't happen on the street that morning, that often did. A regular jogger didn't jog that way that morning. The lady across the street's daughter didn't come for her usual visit. There really wasn't anyone around to see anyone lurking in some obscured position.

I'm assuming, because you have Aussie in your name, that you will understand this reference. Whenever this type of thing happens and people talk about the difficulties of timeframes, I think of the CSK. He got more than one woman off the street with people around and they didn't have a clue who he was for 20 years. Timeframe is never as significant as people think.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

So this isn't necessarily what I think happened, but everyone keeps bringing up an hour isn't long to hide an accident in a panic. But IMO an hour is plenty long to pull off a pre planned non accidental event.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

I think that the scenario in terms of time is the same regardless of whether it is a lurker or someone who was just driving past, as in, I was including both in my statement. They had to happen to be in exactly the right spot when William emerged around the house, with absolutely no guarantees there would be this opportunity. They could have turned up at any time - 4 hours beforehand, or 5 minutes beforehand - but there was apparently one, and only one, opportunity to get him. Then they still had to act with the same speed as anyone else.

I'm not sure someone who was lurking would have been there for ages. The longer they are there the more chance they have of being seen. Plus prior to that they would have seen the kids being thoroughly supervised outside. But anyway, that's really beside the point. I don't think the likelihood of one scenario is greater or less than any of the others when looking at just the time available. Except the missing one - if he'd simply wandered off I think the time to do that and not be seen or ultimately found makes it more unlikely than the others.

I tend to agree with this- stranger things have happened but even though there were/are pedo’s around the area, a lot of things are needed to happen for one of them to take him. Right time, right place. Knowledge of a child there. Grab him at an opportune time, without anyone seeing, or anyone on the street seeing them put him in a car or getting away. Car doors opening/closing, potential of child yelling. Someone seeing them drive off.
I just don’t see it with the timeline and evidence we’ve been given IMO.

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is closed.

Please move on over to Thread #69.