Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #68

[SouthAussie]

And look, I realise this could come across as very gender-biased. The reason I have focused on FM rather than FF is because (a) we barely hear from him so I don't have any real read; (b) as far as we know he was not around when William went missing; and (c) she has been named as the POI. Obviously in the recent situation he is in the same boat, and it will be interesting to see if the things they are accused of are of the same level.

(BBM) Yes, it does. imo

It is just like CS' mother, and Lindy Chamberlain, and Maddie's mum, and Shayla's mum, and CM's mum. They are scrutinised and picked apart. CS' mum spoke about it in her 60 Minutes interview. The hurtful criticisms.

There are pages here about why William was left 'alone' for 10 mins in his foster grandmother's garden.

 

[JBowie]

It does seem a lot like Lindy Chamberlain all over again. IMO.

Yes, it does. With LC and her husband, I always wondered why they didn't come across as being frantic as I would expect about Azaria's disappearance. Subsequently, I think it was supposedly said to be due to their religious beliefs, or some such.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

From the first time I listened to her police walk-through video, I have had difficulty believing her, and that difficulty only grew in subsequent videos of her on TV programs.

There is something about the way she talks that triggers my 'BS' detector, much the same way as it is triggered by a used car salesman.

I don't know if that is because she may be trying too hard to be believable in those videos, or if that is how she normally talks.

It would be handy to hear from someone who knows her well if that is her normal style, or something new.

Ive been a supervisor and employer throughout my life and it reminded me of people who ring up before work for a sicky with copious detail to make it seem more believable rather than just saying they’re sick and can’t come to work. It really sets off the BS meter. Reminds me of that IMO

Agree with the bit about people that have known her. They could provide detail about what they think is the real her, which could help her too.

 

[JBowie]

There are pages here about why William was left 'alone' for 10 mins in his foster grandmother's garden.

And that question should be asked regardless of whether it was the FM or the FF, or both, who were supposed to be caring for the 3 year old at the time.

I believe that anyone who has had to care for a 3 year old will be familiar with what can happen in a few moments of lack of attention, and how far they can travel when running.

I've had to chase one through a shopping centre as she headed for the escalators. Thankfully some alert shoppers blocked her path in time.

 

[SouthAussie]

And that question should be asked regardless of whether it was the FM or the FF, or both, who were supposed to be caring for the 3 year old at the time.

I believe that anyone who has had to care for a 3 year old will be familiar with what can happen in a few moments of lack of attention, and how far they can travel when running.

I've had to chase one through a shopping centre as she headed for the escalators. Thankfully some alert shoppers blocked her path in time.

Well, I don't intend to go through that entire conversation again ... but I can say that various posters here have left their young child alone for 10 mins in what they perceive is a safe situation, where the parent is still there, at home.

So it is not as uncommon as some may think.

 

[JBowie]

So it is not as uncommon as some may think.

Maybe, but the potential consequences of leaving a 3 year old running around a large unfenced, almost rural, block ought to be obvious to any responsible carer -- male or female.

Again, I suspect that the foster grandmother was de facto 'on duty' at the time. I suspect that this all happened while the FM was inside the house doing other things. I suspect a cover up.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Gary Jubelin's book and Caroline Overington's book are the only two that are approved for discussion at this time"

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

"

 

[Akai]

(BBM) Yes, it does. imo

It is just like CS' mother, and Lindy Chamberlain, and Maddie's mum, and Shayla's mum, and CM's mum. They are scrutinised and picked apart. CS' mum spoke about it in her 60 Minutes interview. The hurtful criticisms.

There are pages here about why William was left 'alone' for 10 mins in his foster grandmother's garden.

I can't comment on Lindy Chamberlain. I either never criticised or defended all the others, although I have a problem with ALL of the adults in Portugal. I found them all to be empathetic people, whatever their likeability. I even found Casey Anthony to be more empathetic than FM, although I'm not sure I would go to the lengths of defending her.

Which also brings me to another point. FM and FF were carers. They were not parents. She is not and never was William's mother. (I know I use the acronyms, but they don't mean anything and are just for reference and seem to be the most common ones online.) We hold carers, including foster carers, to a higher standard of care precisely because vulnerable children are being placed in their care. The bias in this situation could well be partially explained by that.

FF doesn't feature because as far as we know at this point he wasn't there at the time. It's also FM who makes herself front and centre in all the interviews (she constantly even talks over the top of him). FF, also, as far as I know, is going for a straight not guilty in all his matters, while FM is intending to use the Mental Health Act, which is essentially saying that she is claiming severe mental or cognitive impairment that means she should not be found guilty regardless of whether the act is proven. If she had such a severe mental impairment that explains her allegedly assaulting a child (because that is what this means), why was she still foster caring?

It's not always gender bias when people single out the woman, was and is my point. I'm not going to tiptoe around someone just because they're a woman when they (a) are the only living adult who was looking after a child when they disappeared; (b) was not his parent; (c) have now been charged with a range of offences that include harming a child.

The female who has been treated repugnantly in this situation is not FM. It is the BM. Before the Coroner's ruling, that poor woman's entire life and every mistake she had ever made was splashed everywhere. She lost her son TWICE: once when she made some mistakes and, right when she was working to get her life back together, the people charged with his care lost him and she was denied any opportunity to have an ongoing relationship with him. Not only that but she has been completely erased from the entire situation, and especially by the FM herself.

Also, I have certainly never criticised the FM for leaving William alone. I have always said that it would be understandable even if she lost track of time and it was 20 minutes.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

Maybe, but the potential consequences of leaving a 3 year old running around a large unfenced, almost rural, block ought to be obvious to any responsible carer -- male or female.

Again, I suspect that the foster grandmother was de facto on 'on duty' at the time. I suspect that this all happened while the FM was inside the house doing other things. I suspect a cover up.

Not only that, but a largely unfamiliar place with an unfenced driveway, steep road and a front balcony with a big drop.
Just pointing out a few dangers obvious to the scene. Even when they are being watched the little terrors can get away in the blink of an eye

 

[SouthAussie]

I can't comment on Lindy Chamberlain. I either never criticised or defended all the others, although I have a problem with ALL of the adults in Portugal. I found them all to be empathetic people, whatever their likeability. I even found Casey Anthony to be more empathetic than FM, although I'm not sure I would go to the lengths of defending her.

Which also brings me to another point. FM and FF were carers. They were not parents. She is not and never was William's mother. (I know I use the acronyms, but they don't mean anything and are just for reference and seem to be the most common ones online.) We hold carers, including foster carers, to a higher standard of care precisely because vulnerable children are being placed in their care. The bias in this situation could well be partially explained by that.

FF doesn't feature because as far as we know at this point he wasn't there at the time. It's also FM who makes herself front and centre in all the interviews (she constantly even talks over the top of him). FF, also, as far as I know, is going for a straight not guilty in all his matters, while FM is intending to use the Mental Health Act, which is essentially saying that she is claiming severe mental or cognitive impairment that means she should not be found guilty regardless of whether the act is proven. If she had such a severe mental impairment that explains her allegedly assaulting a child (because that is what this means), why was she still foster caring?

It's not always gender bias when people single out the woman, was and is my point. I'm not going to tiptoe around someone just because they're a woman when they (a) are the only living adult who was looking after a child when they disappeared; (b) was not his parent; (c) have now been charged with a range of offences that include harming a child.

The female who has been treated repugnantly in this situation is not FM. It is the BM. Before the Coroner's ruling, that poor woman's entire life and every mistake she had ever made was splashed everywhere. She lost her son TWICE: once when she made some mistakes and, right when she was working to get her life back together, the people charged with his care lost him and she was denied any opportunity to have an ongoing relationship with him. Not only that but she has been completely erased from the entire situation, and especially by the FM herself.

Also, I have certainly never criticised the FM for leaving William alone. I have always said that it would be understandable even if she lost track of time and it was 20 minutes.

Not a problem. Your post said it could sound like gender bias, and I agreed.

 

[Couldbe]

JMO .... I would think that the FFC may be tempted to check on what is being posted on this forum.
Or maybe she has never heard of it.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

JMO .... I would think that the FFC may be tempted to check on what is being posted on this forum.
Or maybe she has never heard of it.

I’d welcome her with open arms

Join the fray, Mrs FFFC!

 

[HilaryHormone]

Was the bike damaged ? Has anything been said in regards to this as I found this story strange about the "on purpose " garden crash and the not wanting to climb trees after putting him in a tree ? All word salads IMO

It doesn’t appear to be from photos taken afterwards.
I don’t think the deliberate crashing into the flower beds strange, we know he was described as boisterous and at his age, these things seem ‘fun’. IIRC, his sister had veered into the garden accidentally prior to this, FFC may have laughed this off to ‘downplay’ it, as you might do to prevent upset.

Even the tree climbing scenario could just be indicative of FFC trying to redirect William’s energy, introduce him to new experiences. Nothing sinister in that, possibly even a creative use of the limited play resources, they were visiting so wouldn’t have brought along a lot of toys.

Photo source: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/p...e/news-story/38baa59f1db54e441f01cc11a6af6eba

<modsnip>
Little William would still have been learning how to control his bike, and maybe not up to being confident enough to crashing it. JMO

William was confident in riding his bike

Listen to missing William Tyrrell's infectious giggle as he laughs and talks in home videos | Daily Mail Online

Agree, he was only three! Same as climbing a tree, for goodness sake, what parent puts a three year old in a tree and expects him to climb? The FM clearly had no idea what the child’s limitations were. I believe that she was too old and too out of touch to be fostering a little exuberant boy of three.

A parent who is keen for their child to redirect their energy into physical play, connect with the environment and develop gross motor skills? The fact she mentioned William didn’t like it, so she took him down, indicates she did take his limitations on board IMO. Trial and error.

It's interesting you raise this. I have listened to pretty much every interview with the FM and she has always come across to me as very unempathetic and making it all about her, and also as though she owned/owns William. I've had to turn interviews off and come back to them later I have found it so grating. I find her extremely unpleasant. I can see how she would have done things that demonstrate a lack of empathy.

It does not mean she is guilty of anything, of course.

This is my ‘take’ on FFC. I don’t find her likeable at all; However that doesn’t mean she’s a homicidal maniac.



<modsnip>

 

[Detective Willy]

Feeling all warm and fuzzy about these people doesnt change whats occured.

-William went missing on their watch
-FFC has been outed as lying to the investigation. Now charged
-MFC has been outed as lying to the investigation. Now charged.
-Other foster child has been removed from their care.
-FFC + MFC charged with assulting said child.
-FFC+ MFC charged with stalking and intimidation.

Have I missed anything? seems plenty to me.

How are these folk deserving of the warm and fuzzy accolades being distributed around?


Feels like Rosann is really starting to have a clear direction finally.
The truth is coming.....William will see justice....I can feel it!!!

moo

edited to add. did miss something else....FFC now openly LE POI #1

Agree 100%. The strongest suspicion that I have though is listening to the 000 call and so many things that have been picked up from this. The FFC story changed significantly if you compare what she says on this call and what she changed her story to later IMO.

 

[Miss Paddington]

I think people's suspicions of her may in part be due to the charges, AVO and removal of child from her care, just quietly.

But looking back to before that, I really challenged myself on it. I too could very well come across as unlikeable and grating so I'm not inclined to judge someone for that, and I usually don't. So I kept asking myself why this was really affecting me - such as if it was the Lindy Chamberlain effect. I eventually compared it to Joanne Lees (in the Peter Falconio case). Now, I found Joanne to be extremely grating and unlikeable, but I never found her unempathetic, and I could also understand where she was coming from on things and why she may have come across the way she did.

The lack of empathy and placing herself at the centre of everything and also as William's sole "mother" is what specifically bothered me. It's different to just unlikeability and I could overlook unlikeability as just not my cup of tea as a person. Those things bother me even more now in light of the recent developments.

And look, I realise this could come across as very gender-biased. The reason I have focused on FM rather than FF is because (a) we barely hear from him so I don't have any real read; (b) as far as we know he was not around when William went missing; and (c) she has been named as the POI. Obviously in the recent situation he is in the same boat, and it will be interesting to see if the things they are accused of are of the same level.

 

[Miss Paddington]

I can’t help but compare FFC to Patsy Ramsey; JonBenet Ramsey’s mother.
Everything perfectly controlled and perfect for the world to see and admire ( MOO of course )

If it were me, I wouldn’t care at all about the consequences that I would have to face if I made myself; my face public, because I would scream into every media channel available to give my son back!

 

[SouthAussie]

If it were me, I wouldn’t care at all about the consequences that I would have to face if I made myself; my face public, because I would scream into every media channel available to give my son back!

Every media channel available would not be able to publish it, due to the NPO.

Prior to the NPO, they had their good friends speaking for them during the first weeks (because FACS said they were not allowed to speak), they released many pics of William upon FACS granting permission, did a podcast episode with Lia Harris, did a published 'police' interview in front of cameras, had spoken with the Morcombes about what to do (keep William's disappearance in front of people), had a webpage set up, had billboards put up, had posters put up.

It is not like they have sat back and done nothing. Or hoped that people would forget that William is missing.
.

 

[Couldbe]

MOO….There is a difference between the two women in that FFC was the Foster Carer (even though they appear to have thought of William as their own son; I guess that would be ideal way to treat foster children, but they had to comply with having to allow him to meet with his biological parents).

No doubt FFC, in her responsibility for caring for William could have requested that, under the serious circumstances of his disappearance, have requested that either she / or both she and FACs be permitted to appear on camera. For all we know, she may have made that request……but they have been allowed to remain hidden behind.

The support the FPs have been afforded in their quest to put their story of events out there / $1M Reward, Donations, etc, has been much and they have expressed how appreciative they have been.

With these Charges of common assault and lying to Law Authorities which will be heard soon, if they are upheld and the possibility of them being sentenced to serve time in jail, I wonder if further evidence will be gained from these hearings to further investigation into FFC (or MFC) as a POI?

 

[Akai]

I can’t help but compare FFC to Patsy Ramsey; JonBenet Ramsey’s mother.
Everything perfectly controlled and perfect for the world to see and admire ( MOO of course )

If it were me, I wouldn’t care at all about the consequences that I would have to face if I made myself; my face public, because I would scream into every media channel available to give my son back!

I have a different take, although I have just as much of a problem with the behaviour.

FPs were never William's parents. They were his carers, and it was a temporary arrangement. They have always behaved as though they were his parents, with absolutely no acknowledgement of the role they were in, let alone acknowledgement of the BPs. They have behaved as though they were the only people who emotionally lost William when the reality is that they actually lost someone else's child. It's not that mistakes can't happen; it's that if I was looking after someone else's child no matter for how long I would feel so many layers of guilt and shame about what I'd cost the other person that it would be primary in my mind.

When people go into foster caring it is with the understanding that children are there temporarily and that the main objective is to look after them while the parents have an opportunity to sort themselves out. The goal is for the children to be reunited with their parents because that is the main objective. In the emails to the social worker that were released, the entire tone of it is the unfairness and stress on her, when the situation that is occurring - that William may go back to his BM - is the whole point. I'm not saying I don't understand the sadness and upset, but the FM shows no understanding beyond the impact on her and certainly no recognition of the reality of the situation. "Giving in or giving up"; I nearly fell out of my chair when I read that.

The information that suggests the FPs were looking at adoption is very troubling to me. This is not how it works, and their inclinations to look at that should have been shut down by FACS and most definitely should not have been encouraged. We're getting into the realm of forced adoption here. In most instances where a birth parent is unable to look after the child, the child continues in the fostering arrangement essentially permanently. WTF was going on here exactly?

I think the interviews they've been able to do have been very convenient for them. They have been able to run their narrative endlessly, particularly the narrative that William was their child rather than a child in their care, and without any proper scrutiny. My opinion is that they shouldn't have had this both ways. If they were under an NPO they should not have been allowed to speak full stop and if they wanted to speak they should have had to do the things that were necessary to enable them to be public (ie hand over William's sister to another carer).

 

[Awakening]

Is member @richieswan still around?

Found his analysis of the shadows in the photo but can't quite get my head around it!

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #31