Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69

[Coldpizza]

William Tyrrell: ‘One million reasons’ to come forward over toddler’s abduction
7:29pm September 12, 2016

A $1 million reward, the largest in New South Wales history, has been announced for information that leads to the arrest of the person who abducted missing toddler William Tyrrell, or for the boy’s safe return or recovery.

William, then aged three, went missing from the backyard of his grandmother’s home in Kendall, on the state's mid-north coast, on September 12, 2014.

[...]

"You’re in a much better position if you come to us than if we come to you."

Det. Insp. Jubelin also said the investigation was "a long way" from going to a coronial inquest, and that police did not believe William's family were involved.

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS WRITTEN BELOW. YOU MUST FOLLOW WHAT IS OUTLINED OR YOU WILL BE TIMED OUT OR BANNED!!!!

Thanks to DrSleuth for your help in writing up the information needed for the discussion.

Here is what we can and cannot discuss.

No identifying the biological family, the foster family or any associates ( ie siblings, etc ) or their addresses, places of employment or childcare, etc

They can be identified as bio mother etc & female foster carer etc

At the inquest, they are known as biological mother & father. Foster family are known as FFC ( female foster carer ) MFC ( male foster carer ) FFGM ( female foster grandmother ) etc
REMEMBER THE ABOVE PEOPLE CANNOT BE IDENTIFIED USING THEIR INITIALS.

Prior to the coronial inquest, the bio families could be identified, but it was overturned by the coroner for the inquest.

I am very sorry it took me so long to open this thread back up. Please keep in mind we are short handed so if this thread starts to get out of control with alerts we will have to close it again.
Please do not hesitate to alert but make sure the alert is truly needed. We have experienced a lot of tit for tat alerts and that makes me foam at the mouth, grow hair on my hands and my teeth turn into fangs. In other words please be sure when you post you are posting within our terms of service.

Thank you,
Tricia

Rules Etiquette & Information

William Tyrrell MEDIA/MAPS/TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

Thread #28 Thread #29 Thread #30 Thread #31 Thread #32 Thread #33 Thread #34 Thread #35 Thread #36 Thread #37 Thread #38 Thread #39 Thread #40 Thread #41 Thread #42 Thread #43 Thread #44 Thread #45 Thread #46 Thread #47 Thread #48 Thread #49 Thread #50 Thread #51 Thread #52 Thread #53 Thread #54 Thread #55 Thread #56 Thread #57 Thread #58 Thread #59 Thread #60 Thread #61 Thread #62 Thread #63 Thread #64 Thread #65 (Thread #66 pulled for review) Thread #67 Thread #68

 

[Sillybilly]

So, does that mean it's OK to discuss any other books on the subject?

There is no blanket approval. Please contact a Mod or Admin with the name of the book and the author and we will make a decision.

Chumley's book "Searching for Spiderman" is not approved.

Gary Jubelin's book and Caroline Overington's book are the only two that are approved for discussion at this time.

I think they should be okay - as one is a journo and one is an ex-lead detective on the case - but I will alert on my post and see if a mod can clarify how we should reference. Whether that be the book and page number, or a screenshot of the specific excerpt from the page of one of the allowable books.

IIRC stormbird was putting up screenshots when she spoke of particular passages from Overington's book.

Both books can be discussed.

Always give credit to the author. Book title, page # and paraphrasing or brief quotes are allowed.

Screenshots and more extensive quoting requires approval of the author (the copyright holder).

Do not try to get more content in by breaking it up into multiple posts.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Have just spoken with Tricia and she agrees that members can discuss the recent events surrounding the issuing of the AVO and the foster parents as potential POIs (which y'all have been doing anyway, right?)

While WS policy is that we are victim friendly, and this extends to family member, the policy has to be examined as to how it relates to specific discussions and new information as it comes to light. This is a thread specific exception that is being made based on MSM, obvious action and ongoing investigation by Australian law enforcement.

Discuss matters factually and speculate reasonably but without trashing these people or making direct accusations. Members who do so will be banned from the thread.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This case has its very own set of very unique circumstances that we are having to work around and we know it is difficult for our members.

Of course we have William's case, but we also have the complicating factors of the foster situation, a living minor child, a coronial inquest that prevents publication of names, an AVO not known 100% to be immediately connected to William's case.

Taking all the above into consideration, we can not allow sleuthing of individuals who have not been publicly named.

Discussing what is in MSM is fine, but actual sleuthing of unnamed persons and posting about their background, their personal information or social media is not allowed.

Thanks to everyone here for trying to post accordingly through all this murkiness.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

IMPORTANT

PLEASE READ AND 'LIKE' THIS POST SO WE KNOW YOU HAVE READ IT.

Thread #66 remains pulled due to a recent influx of trolls. We may be able to get it reinstated in a couple of weeks.

Those individuals that we have been able to identify have been banned. There may be others who registered earlier and are waiting in the wings.

This new thread is for discussion only by our long term, veteran Websleuths members who have a sincere dedication to William's case.

As a result of this recent troll invasion we are not allowing new members to join in this discussion.

We are requesting that our trusted members Report posts by new members who join Websleuths after today to participate in William's thread. We will review the matter and deal with it accordingly.

Those whose goal is to incite conflict are not welcome at Websleuths.

Thank you to all our members who have been able to participate respectfully and responsibly in this discussion. We truly appreciate you.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[Sillybilly]

Please review the above opening posts and continue discussion here.

 

[SleepyJoe]

From what I understand and have read, the Landrover (former foster carers' car) was captured on the tennis club CCTV at 0840. In addition, 2 media outlets (as per links in previous thread) have reported that the former MFC's mobile phone (? I'm assuming from tower pings) confirmed he left 48 Benaroon at approx 0930. (Also, AFAIK there was mobile phone service at 48 Benaroon, but the fMFC said he wanted better reception for his GoToMeeting and hence went into town).
So to me, this suggest 2 possible scenarios:
1. fMFC left 48 Benaroon twice that morning; or
2. He and his phone left at approx 0930 but someone else (ie fFFC) left driving the Landrover and was captured on the tennis club CCTV at 0840.

I think it may be possible that these discrepancies, between the data obtained by police investigation and the stories of the morning given by the former foster carers', are the basis of the false evidence charges by the NSW Crime Commission.

 

[SouthAussie]

.
One of the inquest attendees might know what the evidence is.


08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )

08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence)

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52
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[JLZ]

From what I understand and have read, the Landrover (former foster carers' car) was captured on the tennis club CCTV at 0840. In addition, 2 media outlets (as per links in previous thread) have reported that the former MFC's mobile phone (? I'm assuming from tower pings) confirmed he left 48 Benaroon at approx 0930. (Also, AFAIK there was mobile phone service at 48 Benaroon, but the fMFC said he wanted better reception for his GoToMeeting and hence went into town).
So to me, this suggest 2 possible scenarios:
1. fMFC left 48 Benaroon twice that morning; or
2. He and his phone left at approx 0930 but someone else (ie fFFC) left driving the Landrover and was captured on the tennis club CCTV at 0840.

I think it may be possible that these discrepancies, between the data obtained by police investigation and the stories of the morning given by the former foster carers', are the basis of the false evidence charges by the NSW Crime Commission.

There has been said to be a systematic error affecting the tennis club camera. If so perhaps the tennis club footage is consistent with the MFC's declared leaving time at around 9:00.

 

[SleepyJoe]

There has been said to be a systematic error affecting the tennis club camera. If so perhaps the tennis club footage is consistent with the MFC's declared leaving time at around 9:00.

Yes, apparently it was 9 minutes out IIRC. But I thought that had already been taken into account with the 0840 time??? JMO
This article discusses the 9 minute error in the CCTV camera clock:
Did William Tyrrell disappear earlier than reported? Why CCTV could prove crucial | Daily Mail Online

 

[SouthAussie]

There has been said to be a systematic error affecting the tennis club camera. If so perhaps the tennis club footage is consistent with the MFC's declared leaving time at around 9:00.

What time was the skype call? 9:30am? I don't think we know for sure ... but the police will know, and it is a factor to consider. That business matter has to fit into the picture somewhere.

The FD picked up a prescription at 10:19am. (Don't know if he had to wait for it, or if it was prefilled for him to just pick up).

 

[JLZ]

08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )

If the evidence suggests he left around 8:40 . . . that's not going to be either an actual time or a corrected time by the camera clock; some time must be allowed for travelling between Benaroon Drive and the tennis club. I wonder how much time CO allowed.

 

[JLZ]

What time was the skype call? 9:30am? I don't think we know for sure ... but the police will know, and it is a factor to consider. That business matter has to fit into the picture somewhere.

The FD picked up a prescription at 10:19am. (Don't know if he had to wait for it, or if it was prefilled for him to just pick up).

I've heard 9:15 as conference start time. And I've wondered whether the location of the call at MFC's end has been independently established.

 

[Akai]

Yes, apparently it was 9 minutes out IIRC. But I thought that had already been taken into account with the 0840 time??? JMO
This article discusses the 9 minute error in the CCTV camera clock:
Did William Tyrrell disappear earlier than reported? Why CCTV could prove crucial | Daily Mail Online

And nine minutes doesn't really translate to after 9:30am no matter how far you stretch it.

 

[Couldbe]

This information about the mobile phone records only emerged in November 2021. It has had limited publication, although with both news and The Guardian that makes it a bit more likely it came from a source alongside other things about the investigation.

You'd assume, wouldn't you, that this is something police would have checked at the beginning. But then, they didn't check that photo properly, whatever the outcome of that investigation is. Is it possible that they didn't check this and it emerged later when the new team started going over things?

And therefore, is this relevant to the direction of the new investigation and the "false & misleading evidence" charges. I simply cannot see how the data could show he left at 9:30am but they have him on CCTV at 8:40am and that is the same trip. So yes, did he indeed make two trips away from the house? Did he have two phones?

MFC actually pitched his time for when he left to drive to Lakewood very close to the middle of the two 'recorded times' of his movements.

JMO in posing some questions:-

With evidence of the CCTV time of 8.40am ... would they have seen who was driving the vehicle?

Did that vehicle return to the house before 9.30am?

MFC would have known of the two recorded times before the Inquiry (Jubelin source/Media).

So why did he tell the Inquiry he left 'about 9am' ?


I am unaware of any further questioning during the Inquiry about these two times.

 

[SleepyJoe]

There's no doubt about it, all the various different times and sequences of events that have been reported about that morning of 12/9/14, before William "disappeared", are very confusing and frustrating.

 

[SleepyJoe]

With evidence of the CCTV time of 8.40am ... would they have seen who was driving the vehicle?

My opinion is no, the CCTV would not have showed who was driving the vehicle. I say this because I have seen the pictures of Mr Donoghue's BMW captured by the CCTV (in article linked above) and the pictures don't seem to be close enough or clear enough to get a look at the driver JMOO.

 

[deugirtni]

From *my* memory, I believe Caroline Overington stated that records had shown MFC left the house at 9:30am... I remember being very confused about that, because up until that point, I had always heard he had left at 9am. She said through some kind of cell records, whether it was 'tower' records, or what, I can't remember. I can try to dig up that info from CO... I believe it may have been on one of her podcasts. Does anyone else remember what I'm talking about and does anyone have a link?

 

[Akai]

If the evidence suggests he left around 8:40 . . . that's not going to be either an actual time or a corrected time by the camera clock; some time must be allowed for travelling between Benaroon Drive and the tennis club. I wonder how much time CO allowed.

If it's the Kendall Tennis Club, which I assume it is, then Google Maps currently says 3 mins. Slightly more perhaps at that time on a weekday, but not much. So let's say a range of 3-10 minutes just to allow for anything unexpected.

 

[centred]

Regardless of the time frame being 57 mins or approx 90 mins mentioned by LE as a time frame they were trying to fill in .
IMO It must be remembered it was a search for a "missing" child ...I dare say under those circumstances there would be enough time either way to hide a small body considering the size of the house and property , cars and a underground garage with other dirt space area that LE admitted to not opening because he thought a child would not be able to lift .

Sorry , just one article i omitted to link William Tyrrell: Inside 96 minutes which could hold answer what REALLY happened to missing toddler | Daily Mail Online