Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69

[SouthAussie]

I’ve struggled with this too, as well as the timescale and with the whole anonymity issue, whilst they were almost courting publicity.

I wondered if the search at the end of last year was prompted by William’s sister remembering something or by FGM writing a letter on her deathbed. Possibly that there had been an accident that William’s sister or FGM had been involved in, so it was covered up to protect them.

I’m still on the fence tbh, as I think the most recent searches were all very dramatised and public and wondered whether it was Coroner’s orders to ensure all avenues were explored or LE attempts to put pressure on the FC’s. I’ve never seen any LE allow the media a front row seat in a search for remains like that.

Based on the statement released by the FC’s via Where’s William?, I reckon the FC’s must have been aware FFC was a POI before the searches began. It could have caused significant stress in the household and the charges could have occurred as a consequence of that tension. Not that it’s an excuse, but if that is the case, LE do have a lot to answer for.

Sorry for rambling, I don’t have an actual theory or a specific perpetrator pegged for William’s disappearance. It still shocks me how many unsavoury characters were around. I just wish William could be found and his family and those who loved him given a semblance of closure.

All MOO.

I think that it is us who do not know a specific timeline of FM's actions and events.
I think DS Laura Beacroft worked it out. And I think it is in the police brief.

DS Beacroft managed the case information system, she built the POI profiles for the case, she was selected by NSWPOL to represent them at the inquest, interviewed the main players, took photos from PS' place to see what he could see that morning, interviewed RC, investigated FM's claims, and was highly involved during her few years with Strike Force Rosann.

I think DS Beacroft is also a trained psychologist or similar. I just can't find that link again at the moment.

(She later moved to the Child Abuse and Sex Crimes squad and worked as team leader with Strike Force Wyndarra.)


Earlier today the inquest heard from Detective Sergeant Laura Beacroft who was behind building the person of interest profiles for the case.
Neighbour asked what he saw on day William Tyrrell vanished

 

[nightrider17]

Det Sgt Beacroft also confirmed there were no other people who had reported seeing the vehicles matching William's foster mother's description, including the child's foster father and grandmother.
William Tyrrell inquest: Court hears about vehicles seen at Benaroon Drive, Kendall on day William disappeared | Manning River Times | Taree, NSW

I find it odd - if at the time the FFC saw these vehicles - that she would not mention it to her mother?

Especially after still seeing them sometime later after the initial site of them when she first got up.

I am curious why she didn't ask her mother about the vehicles to see if she could shed some light on it.


She would have been the best person to ask - her living in that street - she could have known about why they were there or if that was odd for them to be there.

 

[SouthAussie]

Det Sgt Beacroft also confirmed there were no other people who had reported seeing the vehicles matching William's foster mother's description, including the child's foster father and grandmother.
William Tyrrell inquest: Court hears about vehicles seen at Benaroon Drive, Kendall on day William disappeared | Manning River Times | Taree, NSW

I find it odd - if at the time the FFC saw these vehicles - that she would not mention it to her mother?

Especially after still seeing them sometime later after the initial site of them when she first got up.

I am curious why she didn't ask her mother about the vehicles to see if she could shed some light on it.


She would have been the best person to ask - her living in that street - she could have known about why they were there or if that was odd for them to be there.

Well, PS would probably be the best person on the street to ask. imo
He was the street's sticky beak and seemed to know who was who and what was what. More than anyone else.
He seemed pleased with his level of knowledge, and spoke with the roaming journos (before he became a known POI).

FGM was apparently recovering from an illness, so it is difficult to know how mobile she was, at the time, and what she may have (or may not have) seen in the days prior to that date.

PS did claim to see two cars there, but on the day prior . "A white one and a bluey grey one" - a white hatchback, and a bluey grey four-door sedan (from the Australian article I have linked below)

It was never clear if these were 'made up memories' - with him knowing so much about that morning - or if it was valid recall. But he insisted at the inquest (as per the article) that he was sure he saw them, that he told his wife about it, and that he told someone else - he thinks it might have been the police he told.


William Tyrrell inquiry: Neighbour gives muddled evidence on unknown cars

 

[nightrider17]

Hi "South Aussie" - that's interesting about the cars because he mentions different ones in this article.
William Tyrrell inquest: Court hears from Kendall resident Paul Savage | Manning River Times | Taree, NSW

Mr Craddock questioned Mr Savage about his observations in relation to vehicles he saw on the day prior to William's disappearance.

"In your statement on the 25th of September you made an observation about a car," Mr Craddock said.

"The statement read "on Thursday the 11th of September 2014 I was at home for the day. At 11am I was in my house and heard a car engine that wasn't familiar to me as a car from the street. It had a roar and started like it was revving."

Mr Craddock asked Mr Savage if he could confirm the information in his statement that he saw a dull red coloured Nissan patrol wagon entering the fire trail at the end of Benaroon Drive. Mr Savage confirmed it was.

Mr Craddock also questioned Mr Savage about another car he had seen in the driveway of William's foster grandmother's house on September 11.

"Was that a car you'd seen before?," Mr Craddock asked.

"No, not that I remember," Mr Savage said in response.

William Tyrrell inquest: Court hears from Kendall resident Paul Savage | Manning River Times | Taree, NSW

 

[SouthAussie]

Hi "South Aussie" - that's interesting about the cars because he mentions different ones in this article.
William Tyrrell inquest: Court hears from Kendall resident Paul Savage | Manning River Times | Taree, NSW

Mr Craddock questioned Mr Savage about his observations in relation to vehicles he saw on the day prior to William's disappearance.

"In your statement on the 25th of September you made an observation about a car," Mr Craddock said.

"The statement read "on Thursday the 11th of September 2014 I was at home for the day. At 11am I was in my house and heard a car engine that wasn't familiar to me as a car from the street. It had a roar and started like it was revving."

Mr Craddock asked Mr Savage if he could confirm the information in his statement that he saw a dull red coloured Nissan patrol wagon entering the fire trail at the end of Benaroon Drive. Mr Savage confirmed it was.

Mr Craddock also questioned Mr Savage about another car he had seen in the driveway of William's foster grandmother's house on September 11.

"Was that a car you'd seen before?," Mr Craddock asked.

"No, not that I remember," Mr Savage said in response.

William Tyrrell inquest: Court hears from Kendall resident Paul Savage | Manning River Times | Taree, NSW

Yes, I remember that red 4WD from super early in the case. It was mentioned, then never mentioned again - until the inquest.

I believe that the vehicle in FGM's driveway was a different relative (FM's sibling) that was visiting and left the day prior.

I have wondered if that visitor saw the two parked cars - white and bluey grey - when PS said he saw them on the day prior.

imo

 

[Akai]

I've always had a problem believing her version of events, not only because of the way she delivers it but also the inexplicable omissions that surface later.

I have to say, were I on a jury where she was a witness, the other 11 members would have to work on me hard to persuade me to change my impression of her lack of veracity.

That is exactly how I have felt.

The omissions that have surfaced are convenient ones, and they come in the context of someone who could go into excruciating details about other things. It makes no sense to me that she would go into that detail about masses of trivial facts and then be completely at sea on basic important things. If she was all over the place about everything, whether trivial or important, relevant or irrelevant, I would be more inclined to see her as genuine. But to my view there is a pattern that she is detailed about the irrelevant and not at all clear on the relevant. She claims certainty about things and then expects that changing other parts of her story will be believable and/or that we are expected to believe the things she was otherwise certain about.

I deem most of her commentary unreliable. Now whether dismissing that means that it is more likely that someone could have abducted William or she was involved is a different question. But given her determination to provide evidence that supports an abduction theory, I can't see why she would make things up when it was detrimental to believing an abduction theory. The clearer motive for making things up is to cover something up and then the subsequent insertion of information to paint the abduction theory.

It does my head in, honestly.

 

[nightrider17]

So I guess it just points out - for a relatively quiet street - there was a lot of random cars perusing the area days prior and possibly not seen by everyone.

 

[nightrider17]

I go back to the recent CS abduction in Western Australia.

Her abducter was quite "ballsy" considering the parents where in the tent asleep.

He would have had to carry CS a certain amount of time to get to his vehicle.

She could have woken up and screamed or the parents could have woken up.

I am assuming it was random and opportunistic him being there at the same time and he took advantage of the situation because he thought it was possible.

I guess seeing the child's bike and the remoteness of other campers in relation to the tent helped secure in his mind it was possible and took the risk.

The remoteness helped.
The noisy windy night helped.
The parents asleep helped.

 

[nightrider17]

Is it more random that a vehicle goes down Benaroon drive - sees a opportunity and abducts child.

Person happens to go down a dead end street - no particular reason and has the opportunity arise.

Is this more or less possible than the camping abduction - where there is more possibility a child might be camping in a tent.

Just trying to look at the possibility.

 

[Akai]

So I guess it just points out - for a relatively quiet street - there was a lot of random cars perusing the area days prior and possibly not seen by everyone.

Or not a lot of random cars at all and people created memories due to the power of suggestion, especially given others were adamant there were no cars in the street that were claimed were seen. The only car I am confident was there is the one that did a U-Turn that morning. The description of it I am not confident about, but this appears corroborated by more than one person - the Crabbs also said they heard a car turning around.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...t/news-story/fa357f08340e6b3bda5f5c86c48f2eac

 

[bearbear]

was it sgt beacroft who was first officer at the scene and she commented "somethings not right here" or words to that effect?
wondering what her initial gut feeling was and if she acted on it or let it get buried in all the talk?

 

[Akai]

Is it more random that a vehicle goes down Benaroon drive - sees a opportunity and abducts child.

Person happens to go down a dead end street - no particular reason and has the opportunity arise.

Is this more or less possible than the camping abduction - where there is more possibility a child might be camping in a tent.

Just trying to look at the possibility.

Less possible in my view due to one happening at night time and one during day time and the fact that Cleo's family could have been watched for some time after they went to bed while a person abducting William essentially had to make a decision on the spur of the moment (even if they were watching the premises themeslves for a period of time).

 

[nightrider17]

I wonder if they know from any neighbours

- did any neighbours see/hear the Fosters Car turn up on Thursday night?
- did any neighbours see/hear the MFC leave to go to meeting or return?
- did any neighbours see/hear FFC leave for short trip and back?

This could point to if - none of the neighbours - heard/saw - the definite and established comings and goings of the foster carer's car and grandmothers car on those days at that property.

Then they could have also missed another cars comings and goings.

 

[nightrider17]

Hi "Akai"

I am just trying to tease out - the randomness and how possible it could be. I don't really know if I believe that is what happened.

 

[bearbear]

I wonder if they know from any neighbours

- did any neighbours see/hear the Fosters Car turn up on Thursday night?
- did any neighbours see/hear the MFC leave to go to meeting or return?
- did any neighbours see/hear FFC leave for short trip and back?

This could point to if - none of the neighbours - heard/saw - the definite and established comings and goings of the foster carer's car and grandmothers car on those days at that property.

Then they could have also missed another cars comings and goings.

im also curious if either of the fosters went for a drive that night after they arrived at fgms, or if relatives/friends came over to visit?

 

[Akai]

I wonder if they know from any neighbours

- did any neighbours see/hear the Fosters Car turn up on Thursday night?
- did any neighbours see/hear the MFC leave to go to meeting or return?
- did any neighbours see/hear FFC leave for short trip and back?

This could point to if - none of the neighbours - heard/saw - the definite and established comings and goings of the foster carer's car and grandmothers car on those days at that property.

Then they could have also missed another cars comings and goings.

From memory Heather Savage recalls the taillights of the Fosters car pulling in to FGM's place around 8:30-9pm. I cannot find the link for this so hopefully someone else can confirm if my memory is correct or if I am misremembering LOL. She died in 2015 so it would have been an interview of some sort because she obviously wasn't around for the inquest.

Good points re the others. There was a lot of stuff about timing during the inquest, but I don't recall anyone saying they saw FF leave in the morning or being asked to corroborate the return. I could be wrong about that, though, because there was quite a lot of information so it may not have jumped out at me. Someone else may recall better.

Especially good point re FM. I assume FGM was asked about this but she didn't appear at the inquest so would have been before that in an interview? The other person who might know something is Anne-Marie Sharpley (sp?) who was potentially already involved in the search with her at the point she went for the drive (the timing of the drive is unclear). Of course, if Anne-Marie was not involved at that point then that puts the drive very early in the piece after William went missing.

Really good points to ponder. Thanks.

 

[SouthAussie]

was it sgt beacroft who was first officer at the scene and she commented "somethings not right here" or words to that effect?
wondering what her initial gut feeling was and if she acted on it or let it get buried in all the talk?

No. Laura Beacroft joined the investigation in early 2015.

I remember what you are speaking of. Two officers went back to the police station that first afternoon, and were concerned that William wasn't lost (I can't remember MSM's exact wording about that).
Then within 48 hours the sex crimes squad was in attendance.

ETA: It was Vanessa Partridge. Here is soso's post about it, from April 2015.
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - # 9

(We were already on the 9th thread then! )

 

[JLZ]

No. Laura Beacroft joined the investigation in early 2015.

I remember what you are speaking of. Two officers went back to the police station that first afternoon, and were concerned that William wasn't lost (I can't remember MSM's exact wording about that).
Then within 48 hours the sex crimes squad was in attendance.

ETA: It was Vanessa Partridge. Here is soso's post about it, from April 2015.
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - # 9

(We were already on the 9th thread then! )

My reading was that VP was a third officer to whom the other two spoke but she didn't attend Benaroon Drive until the second day--when her impression corresponded to theirs.

 

[SLouTh]

My reading was that VP was a third officer to whom the other two spoke but she didn't attend Benaroon Drive until the second day--when her impression corresponded to theirs.

Correct JLZ, but VP was manning the "command room" in Port Mac the first day and coordinating resources and fielding phone calls etc regarding Williams disappearance.
From 60mins, CO - and other sources IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

My reading was that VP was a third officer to whom the other two spoke but she didn't attend Benaroon Drive until the second day--when her impression corresponded to theirs.

Yes, could be. The Australian link from soso's post is dead now, so I can't read it.
This other article (google preview) says Vanessa Partridge went to the scene that evening, so it would make sense that they spoke about it the next day.