Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[SLouTh]

Thinking further about the abduction theory ……. And no evidence… it would appear that William may have been taken from the area, in a car……

IF William had wandered down Benaroon Drive, or possibly into Ellendale Crescent….. he may have been “abducted” away from 48 Benaroon Drive itself….. meaning that nothing was “heard“ in that particular area because it didn’t happen at number 48??? It could also mean that any evidence could have been in another area of the street, rather than at FGM’s house?

In CO’s book there is a map of Rowleys search map and the times that properties were searched …. Most of the houses were not actually searched until Sat 13th ....

IF William was “abducted” by someone in the very local area, (someone who had reason to be on the street) they would have had plenty of time to take him somewhere….. (from roughly 10am on the 12th to approx 8am on the 13th … 22 hours including the cover of night)….

The only two houses searched by Police on the 12th were Nocturnal Man and Number 10 Ellendale Crescent …. This property was searched again on the 13th, along with the rest of the houses in the area…..

I know this doesn’t fit with FM being named a POI …. But just looking at all possibilities regarding the abduction theory ….IMO

Is it also plausible to wonder if William did wander down the street, and FM did take the drive, before FF arrived home, and before enlisting any help, Did she find William down the street, put him into the car and take him somewhere??? So whatever happened didn’t actually happen at number 48? Hence no evidence??

Just theory and IMO

 

[SLouTh]

Did Police withold evidence, for the purposes of the investigation, that FGM’s car was seen driving down Benaroon Drive that morning?? Was it actually reported at the time? Possibly even overlooked at the time?

We have also never heard that FF car was seen leaving Benaroon that morning either….. and yet lots of people from Benaroon and Ellendale were out and about doing their usual Friday activities …. Was that also withheld from the Public?

If something did happen to William on the drive to Batar Creek Road and Cobb and Co, before the initial search really started that would actually fit the timeline…… would it not?

JMO

 

[Couldbe]

Thinking further about the abduction theory ……. And no evidence… it would appear that William may have been taken from the area, in a car……

IF William had wandered down Benaroon Drive, or possibly into Ellendale Crescent….. he may have been “abducted” away from 48 Benaroon Drive itself….. meaning that nothing was “heard“ in that particular area because it didn’t happen at number 48??? It could also mean that any evidence could have been in another area of the street, rather than at FGM’s house?

In CO’s book there is a map of Rowleys search map and the times that properties were searched …. Most of the houses were not actually searched until Sat 13th ....

IF William was “abducted” by someone in the very local area, (someone who had reason to be on the street) they would have had plenty of time to take him somewhere….. (from roughly 10am on the 12th to approx 8am on the 13th … 22 hours including the cover of night)….

The only two houses searched by Police on the 12th were Nocturnal Man and Number 10 Ellendale Crescent …. This property was searched again on the 13th, along with the rest of the houses in the area…..

I know this doesn’t fit with FM being named a POI …. But just looking at all possibilities regarding the abduction theory ….IMO

Is it also plausible to wonder if William did wander down the street, and FM did take the drive, before FF arrived home, and before enlisting any help, Did she find William down the street, put him into the car and take him somewhere??? So whatever happened didn’t actually happen at number 48? Hence no evidence??

Just theory and IMO

JMO - Searches .... homes and traffic ... would appear to have left the time for your abduction theory to have feasibility.

Chances of witnesses coming forward with information in that regard would need to be relied.
FFC provided her own witness to her Batar Creek drive .... in relating her story about him thanking her for pulling over because she had her head out of the window looking for William.

 

[Couldbe]

Did Police withold evidence, for the purposes of the investigation, that FGM’s car was seen driving down Benaroon Drive that morning?? Was it actually reported at the time? Possibly even overlooked at the time?

We have also never heard that FF car was seen leaving Benaroon that morning either….. and yet lots of people from Benaroon and Ellendale were out and about doing their usual Friday activities …. Was that also withheld from the Public?

If something did happen to William on the drive to Batar Creek Road and Cobb and Co, before the initial search really started that would actually fit the timeline…… would it not?

JMO

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

Sorry for ramble just how I thought the morning went from what I have read so far from book. MFC leaves around 8.40 Kids have breakfast Kids dressed teeth brushed FFC called BS at 9.03 William gets bored inside so FFC takes William down to play in yard/climb tree. FFC see two cars parked...

www.websleuths.com

"08:40 : AMS reverses out to take her child to pre-school. Arrives at 9am. Saw no cars parked on the street.
08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )
08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence )
08:50 : PS back from his walk, he stopped for approx 30mins to talk to lady named "Lyn" -the lady from the caravan"

 

[SLouTh]

FFC provided her own witness to her Batar Creek drive .... in relating her story about him thanking her for pulling over because she had her head out of the window looking for William.

Excellent point CB!!!! What would be even better is if a witness could cooberate her story, that she was just looking for William…. For FM‘s side of the story to be true…. (Being fair here) as I don’t think she can later “deny” the drive in a court, as she also testified at the inquest that it did occur…

Where as a witness that may have possibly seen William/ or evidence of William, in the car would be better for the investigation …

IMO

 

[SLouTh]

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

Sorry for ramble just how I thought the morning went from what I have read so far from book. MFC leaves around 8.40 Kids have breakfast Kids dressed teeth brushed FFC called BS at 9.03 William gets bored inside so FFC takes William down to play in yard/climb tree. FFC see two cars parked...

www.websleuths.com

"08:40 : AMS reverses out to take her child to pre-school. Arrives at 9am. Saw no cars parked on the street.
08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )
08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence )
08:50 : PS back from his walk, he stopped for approx 30mins to talk to lady named "Lyn" -the lady from the caravan"

Exactly …. How did no one see his car leaving???

EDIT to add
Mrs Wilson left at 9
Mr Crowley left around the same time from Ellendale
James Dalton returned from his paper run at 9am

 

[nightrider17]

I guess for someone to be considered a POI - there has to be opportunity and awareness.

Awareness the child/children are there - through conversations with the Foster GM, other neighbours, overhearing children when on phone calls, or other neighbours commenting they heard children playing, or know children will be visiting.

Opportunity - a reason to be in the vicinity to pull off a abduction - through living in the particular street, or having reason to come to the street because of the kind of work you do, delivery, service callout, tradesperson.

As far as whether William was hidden in any those properties for any length of time - I can't see how that would be a clever idea - if you pulled off a abduction without anyone seeing, I would believe you would try to leave the area because you would't 100% know that someone didn't see you. MOO

I personally can't really believe the Fosters were handing him over to anyone willingly its makes things complicated.

I could see a accident because William might have been really hyped up and doing things out of character even from just a change of routine contributing to it.

A particularly large unfenced yard which merges into lots of open space with the neighbouring yards like that would be exhilarating to run around.
His sister may have been more happy to do quiet activities for longer periods.

Maybe there was some shame felt from FFC to being defeated by a hyped up 3 year old in terms of parenting in front of her mother.

Possibly not much quality sleep from the night before and having to be on guard because the property has got lots of high points, trees, sudden drops.

Even if the FFC thought it was essentially a safe area, the property did present issues from totally being able to relax.

Moo

 

[bearbear]

As I understand it, the other daughter wasn't at 48 Benaroon Drive on the afternoon of 12 September. IIRC, the FM's sister was picked up by her at Macquarie Airport on 18 September.

i know, which seemed like an odd thing for him to say, if it was only fcs and fgm there that morning

 

[katydid23]

Is it possible she did something other than kill him and dump his body? At this point, it seems like anything is on the table, including the unlikely possibility that she 'could' have given him to someone, or sold him to someone... I don't like to say that.. but perhaps she knew a childless couple who wanted a little boy, slipped out while nobody was paying attention, for a prearranged meeting at the side of a road somewhere?

If I was being publicly accused of disappearing my 3 yr old foster child, and they were digging in my garden, and charging me with other serious crimes, I think I would confess to rehoming the child to a loving childless couple, if that was the real situation. JMO

 

[iiiii's]

The FGm's walk through does not confirm many of the activities and snippets of conversation between FFC and her mother.
*FGM does not confirm watching the children on the driveway or the foster daughter making a comment about a car that did a 3 point turn in the neighbors driveway.
*FGM did not witness FFC playing with WT in the front yard or the other cars
*FGM does not confirm the time FFC thinks WT went missing, she says they were on the deck between 9 and 10 am.
*FGM gets down to the road to find AMS which would be after 10.40am, after MFC has returned home and FFC is about to call the police, so FGM does not confirm other things the FFC has stated like, "what do you mean he is missing, you go down and I'll stay up here" or helping to go through all the cupboards etc. in the house and on the property before MFC returns.
*The FGM does not confirm the timelines that FFC gives in her statements. I guess we're all supposed to be ageist and put it all down to forgetfulness. I think she looks quite nervous in some parts of the video, she may have some doubts as to what her daughter and son-in-law has said was the order of things and I think it's possible that she has been duped somehow.
* But the points she does manage to get in are, they were all very happy, he was wearing his spiderman suit and that photo was taken out here just before. IMO

 

[bearbear]

more spin? forgetful doddery old lady...

The foster mother said she had become annoyed when her mother told her that she had been waiting two weeks for a washing machine repair part.

“I said ‘Mum it’s crazy, it doesn’t take two weeks’,” she told the court.

“And she said ‘oh dear, you don’t understand, this is how things are done in the country’.”

But asked if her mother could have exaggerated the two-week wait, given that Spedding had visited the Benaroon Drive house just days before William vanished, the foster mother agreed.

“Yes, she’s an elderly woman. She does tend to under-exaggerate, over-exaggerate at different times,” she said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/william-tyrrells-foster-mum-i-beat-myself-up/news-story/a4d83bbff2ebf756201b8a2f955e3476

 

[Doesitmakesense]

The FGm's walk through does not confirm many of the activities and snippets of conversation between FFC and her mother.
*FGM does not confirm watching the children on the driveway or the foster daughter making a comment about a car that did a 3 point turn in the neighbors driveway.
*FGM did not witness FFC playing with WT in the front yard or the other cars
*FGM does not confirm the time FFC thinks WT went missing, she says they were on the deck between 9 and 10 am.
*FGM gets down to the road to find AMS which would be after 10.40am, after MFC has returned home and FFC is about to call the police, so FGM does not confirm other things the FFC has stated like, "what do you mean he is missing, you go down and I'll stay up here" or helping to go through all the cupboards etc. in the house and on the property before MFC returns.
*The FGM does not confirm the timelines that FFC gives in her statements. I guess we're all supposed to be ageist and put it all down to forgetfulness. I think she looks quite nervous in some parts of the video, she may have some doubts as to what her daughter and son-in-law has said was the order of things and I think it's possible that she has been duped somehow. IMO

I wonder if the FFC & FGM relationship changed after WT disappearance

 

[JLZ]

more spin? forgetful doddery old lady...

The foster mother said she had become annoyed when her mother told her that she had been waiting two weeks for a washing machine repair part.

“I said ‘Mum it’s crazy, it doesn’t take two weeks’,” she told the court.

“And she said ‘oh dear, you don’t understand, this is how things are done in the country’.”

But asked if her mother could have exaggerated the two-week wait, given that Spedding had visited the Benaroon Drive house just days before William vanished, the foster mother agreed.

“Yes, she’s an elderly woman. She does tend to under-exaggerate, over-exaggerate at different times,” she said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/william-tyrrells-foster-mum-i-beat-myself-up/news-story/a4d83bbff2ebf756201b8a2f955e3476

The fair thing would have been to ask FGM whether her daughter might have exaggerated what FGM told her.

 

[FromGermany1]

JMO regarding why MFC may not have disclosed that he did leave the property twice is because he did not want to admit that he was 'frustrated' with the children - just like he deleted a batch of text messages between himself and FM which IMO were also very likely expressing negative feelings about William.

I recall reading that the FM said on the morning of Sep 12, 2014, that her husband had become “frustrated” with the children being noisy.
and she said something like ‘you just take care of yourself and I will take care of them’.”

I remember well, because I wondered at the time, that seemingly it wasn't normal for FFC to care for the children, when MFC had to get ready for work. If it was quite normal, she wouldn't have had to offer her share of parenting (and even tell it to an investigator later).
Strikingly, frustrated they were a lot the day of William's disappearing and the evening before already. Afaik, in the car on their way to Kendall the children also were noisy/restless and the MFC felt annoyed. (Not, that I don't remember, how loud, restless children can be annoying.)
IMO

 

[SLouTh]

I wonder if the FFC & FGM relationship changed after WT disappearance

And what it was like before?? As it has been reported over the years that it was the FF that usually arranged trips to visit FGM, not FM herself….

 

[SLouTh]

If I was being publicly accused of disappearing my 3 yr old foster child, and they were digging in my garden, and charging me with other serious crimes, I think I would confess to rehoming the child to a loving childless couple, if that was the real situation. JMO

And the other thing I have difficulty with regarding the “handing over” theory, is that Police now seem certain that William is deceased….
However, we don’t know how they have come that conclusion? But there does appear to have been a “shift” in their choice of wording…. Imo

 

[FromGermany1]

more spin? forgetful doddery old lady...

The foster mother said she had become annoyed when her mother told her that she had been waiting two weeks for a washing machine repair part.

“I said ‘Mum it’s crazy, it doesn’t take two weeks’,” she told the court.

“And she said ‘oh dear, you don’t understand, this is how things are done in the country’.”

But asked if her mother could have exaggerated the two-week wait, given that Spedding had visited the Benaroon Drive house just days before William vanished, the foster mother agreed.

“Yes, she’s an elderly woman. She does tend to under-exaggerate, over-exaggerate at different times,” she said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/william-tyrrells-foster-mum-i-beat-myself-up/news-story/a4d83bbff2ebf756201b8a2f955e3476

When I read this, my first thought was: If FGM said, she waited for 2 weeks already for the machine repair part/s, then BS had to know her name/home/situation/future family meeting (with children) perhaps 2 weeks earlier than stated by him (or others). IMO

 

[iiiii's]

more spin? forgetful doddery old lady...

The foster mother said she had become annoyed when her mother told her that she had been waiting two weeks for a washing machine repair part.

“I said ‘Mum it’s crazy, it doesn’t take two weeks’,” she told the court.

“And she said ‘oh dear, you don’t understand, this is how things are done in the country’.”

But asked if her mother could have exaggerated the two-week wait, given that Spedding had visited the Benaroon Drive house just days before William vanished, the foster mother agreed.

“Yes, she’s an elderly woman. She does tend to under-exaggerate, over-exaggerate at different times,” she said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/william-tyrrells-foster-mum-i-beat-myself-up/news-story/a4d83bbff2ebf756201b8a2f955e3476

yes and yet the FGM was quite precise about when she called BS during the police walkthrough which confirms what BS said. IMO

 

[JLZ]

I remember well, because I wondered at the time, that seemingly it wasn't normal for FFC to care for the children, when MFC had to get ready for work. If it was quite normal, she wouldn't have had to offer her share of parenting (and even tell it to an investigator later).
Strikingly, frustrated they were a lot the day of William's disappearing and the evening before already. Afaik, in the car on their way to Kendall the children also were noisy/restless and the MFC felt annoyed. (Not, that I don't remember, how loud, restless children can be annoying.)
IMO

(Purpled by me)--I don't think so. I believe he spoke about the difficulty in theory of conducting a conference while in the car with children, which is what he would have done if they'd left Friday morning instead of Thursday afternoon.

 

[Couldbe]

The FGm's walk through does not confirm many of the activities and snippets of conversation between FFC and her mother.
*FGM does not confirm watching the children on the driveway or the foster daughter making a comment about a car that did a 3 point turn in the neighbors driveway.
*FGM did not witness FFC playing with WT in the front yard or the other cars
*FGM does not confirm the time FFC thinks WT went missing, she says they were on the deck between 9 and 10 am.
*FGM gets down to the road to find AMS which would be after 10.40am, after MFC has returned home and FFC is about to call the police, so FGM does not confirm other things the FFC has stated like, "what do you mean he is missing, you go down and I'll stay up here" or helping to go through all the cupboards etc. in the house and on the property before MFC returns.
*The FGM does not confirm the timelines that FFC gives in her statements. I guess we're all supposed to be ageist and put it all down to forgetfulness. I think she looks quite nervous in some parts of the video, she may have some doubts as to what her daughter and son-in-law has said was the order of things and I think it's possible that she has been duped somehow.
* But the points she does manage to get in are, they were all very happy, he was wearing his spiderman suit and that photo was taken out here just before. IMO

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his FINAL hours and bedroom he slept in before vanishing

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his FINAL hours and bedroom he slept in before vanishing

www.nytimespost.com

Here are some extracts (BBM) from the link, that I consider to be salient points from FFGM's walkthrough.... that point to her endeavouring to adhere to details that FFC and MFC had told her to say about the events:

"‘As I was sitting there, that’s when he went around … and that’s my last memory of William, going around the corner.
"The foster grandmother (above) leading Det. Partridge out to the verandah, said after William vanished ‘my first thought, he’s been taken … because knowing the little boy … he’s not the type to wander’

"‘I think I was walking up when (the foster father) arrived and he was distraught as well."

‘How he knew at that stage I’m not too sure, he’d tell you, I’m not too sure, then he started running around. Everybody was running around.’


"The woman pointed down the hill to the slope of the street running down from her house.


‘I thought when I first … that he’s run down there, because he was in that boisterous, happy, energetic little phase, I can imagine him running down there.


‘I also thought he could run straight through there (she points across the road), so he would have run along the road down there.


But it would have been so out of character. She would know that better than I. When she came back and said I’ll get the police, it clicked, he’s been taken


‘I don’t know how. I mean I’m very grateful everybody’s been searching. I never ever thought he’d be found around here, he was taken."