Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[k-mac]

Unfortunately, sister will probably make a poor witness.

Any current changed recall - if there is any - will be questioned due to being 4 (or 5, depending what article you go by) years old at the time.

While it is "only" 7½ years ago (to us), to her it is over half her lifetime ago.

She may have unwittingly been subject to external coercion in more recent times. Internet, peers, bio family, social 'advocates'.

Sure, it would be great if she remembered something useful, after all these years.

But any defence lawyer will make mincemeat out of any testimony she may give in a court of law.

I think hanging on to hope that sister may be a useful witness is only hanging on by a thin thread. No matter who is responsible for William's disappaearance (if anyone).

imo

I'm not so sure about that SA.

I was referring to being influenced by her foster parents all the way along not recent times as your post refers to everyone currently now but.. the fosters, for clarity.

I was involved(witness) in a traumatic experience (a type of accident) when I was 3 and the narrative was changed immediately. I knew it then....I knew it when I was 10 .... I knew it when I was 20...I know it now.

The truth can not be muddied.
Not really...not truly. Not even by those powerful influential close to us.
It might be hidden...it might be uneasy...but its there. if its there.

People can not implant false memories. A coerced individual can play along.....but the truth simmers away......never to be dissolved.

moo

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm not so sure about that SA.

I was referring to being influenced by her foster parents all the way along not recent times as your post refers to everyone currently now but.. the fosters, for clarity.

I was involved in a traumatic experience when I was 3 and the narrative was changed immediately. I knew it then....I knew it when I was 10 .... I knew it when I was 20...I know it now.

The truth can not be muddied.
Not really...not truly. Not even by those powerful influential close to us.
It might be hidden...it might be uneasy...but its there. if its there.

People can not implant false memories. A coerced individual can play along.....but the truth simmers away......never to be dissolved.

moo

Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions. But I don't think we should underestimate what a defence lawyer would do to any potential changed testimony from that poor young girl - if there is any changed testimony.

The trauma she has suffered at being removed from her birth home and placed with multiple carers. The trauma of losing her brother. Any potential birth trauma that may have affected her abilities (if there was any). These things will all be raised - should it come to that - in a court of law.

If there is any weakness in any 'new' testimony or in her abilities, it will be magnified by a defence lawyer.
And they will bring along their experts, to drive their points home.

imo

 

[KateM]

Unfortunately, sister will probably make a poor witness to William's disappearance.

Any current changed recall - if there is any - will be questioned due to being 4 (or 5, depending what article you go by) years old at the time.

While it is "only" 7½ years ago (to us), to her it is over half her lifetime ago.

She may have unwittingly been subject to external coercion in more recent times. Internet, peers, bio family, social 'advocates'.

Sure, it would be great if she remembered something useful, after all these years.

But any defence lawyer will make mincemeat out of any 'new' testimony she may give in a court of law.

I think hanging on to hope that sister may be a useful witness is only hanging on by a thin thread. No matter who is responsible for William's disappaearance (if anyone).

imo

I think it's more likely that she may have unwittingly been subject to external coercion at the time of William's disappearance, from the FF. No-one, including the FGM wanted to talk about Lindsay, or where she was that morning...

 

[SouthAussie]

I think it's more likely that she may have unwittingly been subject to external coercion at the time of William's disappearance, from the FF. No-one, including the FGM wanted to talk about Lindsay, or where she was that morning...

It actually doesn't matter what we think about who may or may not have coerced the child.

As I have stated, a defence lawyer will look for weakness, and will jump on that to place doubt on any changed testimony she may have (if she has any changed testimony, which is something no-one knows but is being theorised).

And I am not even sure a prosecutor would proceed with a case, based on a young girl's changed testimony from an event that was so long ago in her short life.

There would need to be hard proof or a multitude of conclusive circumstantial evidence to back it up. Evidence that also rules out any other POI or William-getting-lost-all-by-himself situation. As far as we know, there is none of that.

Otherwise it is a case of reasonable doubt all the way round.

imo

 

[k-mac]

It actually doesn't matter what we think about who may or may not have coerced the child.


imo

RSFF
I suspect it will matter to a potential prosecution.......
I suspect it will matter alot.

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

RSFF
I suspect it will matter to a potential prosecution.......
I suspect it will matter alot.

MOO

And I suspect it will matter a lot to a potential defence.

These leaks to the DM are coming from someone close to the investigation. And potentially may indicate recent coercion and/or interference and/or manipulation.

imo

 

[KateM]

And I suspect it will matter a lot to a potential defence.

These leaks to the DM are coming from someone close to the investigation. And potentially may indicate coercion and/or interference.

imo

Have you considered that William's sister had been interviewed in more recent times by police?

 

[k-mac]

And I suspect it will matter a lot to a potential defence.

These leaks to the DM are coming from someone close to the investigation. And potentially may indicate recent coercion and/or interference and/or manipulation.

imo

The truth is the truth.

Holes can't be poked through it.

co-ersion.....interference.....manipulation on any front will be exposed if brought to a court of law.

Hopefully thats exactly what will happen.

moo

 

[iiiii's]

William Tyrrell: Gary Jubelin planned secret “immunity ...
No Cookies | Daily Telegraph...
William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished. Their foster father had a grey station wagon, just like Savage did, and the children had been waiting for him to return from an appointment on the morning of William’s …

Where would WT's sister be standing/located, to make this statement to detectives?

 

[seekingjustice**]

Have you considered that William's sister had been interviewed in more recent times by police?

IMO - yes. She sounds very switched on in the below article and I think she may potentially have provided information to the police about the day that William went missing that contradicts the foster carer/s version of events.

"William Tyrrell's 10-year-old sister has made an emotional promise to find her sibling, telling an inquest into his disappearance she wants to become a detective and solve the case.

William's sister, who cannot be named for legal reasons, recorded a message which was played at the end of a 19-month inquest into the three-year-old's suspected abduction.

"I hope this speech makes you solve the case," she said.

"If it doesn't, when I am officially adult, I will be in the police force, a detective specifically, and I will find my brother and not give up until he is found.

"Please help my family, most of all me, find our precious William."

'I will find my brother': William Tyrrell's 10yo sister in emotional promise to solve abduction mystery

William Tyrrell's sister tells an inquest into his disappearance she will join the police force and find her brother in a bid to solve one of Australia's most puzzling abduction cases.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

William Tyrrell: Gary Jubelin planned secret “immunity ...
No Cookies | Daily Telegraph...
William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished. Their foster father had a grey station wagon, just like Savage did, and the children had been waiting for him to return from an appointment on the morning of William’s …

Where would WT's sister be standing/located, to make this statement to detectives?

I find the best way to see what can be seen from the house is to go to Google streetview and see what parts of the house and garden can be seen from the street.

It is not a conclusive way to gauge these things, because a little child would be able to see things without tree branches and leaves obscuring their view, as a little child is lower to the ground. But it is better than nothing.

 

[KateM]

I find the best way to see what can be seen from the house is to go to Google streetview and see what parts of the house and garden can be seen from the street.

It is not a conclusive way to gauge these things, because a little child would be able to see things without tree branches and leaves obscuring their view, as a little child is lower to the ground. But it is better than nothing.

You see, that story doesn't correlate with the FFC story as didn't she state that Lindsay was drawing on the porch when William ran around the corner?

 

[SouthAussie]

You see, that story doesn't correlate with the FFC story as didn't she state that Lindsay was drawing on the porch when William ran around the corner?

I think some are taking, literally, that running to the car is the last thing that Lindsay saw of William.
When Lindsay said she saw William run to the car before he vanished, but who knows when that was before he vanished.
Was it when they were running around the house playing chasey? Then they settled onto the back deck for a while?

I think if it was the last thing she saw of William (at all), she would know a bit more. As in, he was put into the vehicle. Or hit by the vehicle.

With that limited piece of information given, it could have been any time from 9am-ish till 10:05am-ish. Except when the photos were taken between 9:35:05 and 9:37:44.

imo

 

[JLZ]

You see, that story doesn't correlate with the FFC story as didn't she state that Lindsay was drawing on the porch when William ran around the corner?

I think Jubelin might have fudged that story a bit. It sounds like he's saying sister saw William run towards a car and she thought from its appearance that the car was MFC's. I think if pressed he might admit that all sister said was that she saw William run off and that she thought--perhaps from something William had said to her, perhaps for another reason--that he was going to meet MFC's car.

You ask a good question, where William and sister would have been and where the car would have been if the children had seen it. If they were playing on the grassed area by the patio they might have seen the car approach the carport, but then FFC and FGM should have heard the car, and William disappeared in the opposite direction from what those adults are saying. On the other hand, if he'd gone in the direction he was said to have gone, and seen the car coming up Benaroon Drive after it passed the Wilsons', being at that time still in sight of sister as she played about the grassed area near the patio, that's a long run down to the road; William couldn't expect to intercept the car before it turned the corner. I don't know if it's expecting too much of a three-year-old, but the sensible thing would be to turn around, run the other way and meet him at the end of the drive. Which brings us back to why the adults didn't hear the car. If the Millers could hear a car turning from their back deck, surely FFC and/or FGM would have noticed one from their patio--if it was up that end of Benaroon Drive.

 

[KateM]

I think Jubelin might have fudged that story a bit. It sounds like he's saying sister saw William run towards a car and she thought from its appearance that the car was MFC's. I think if pressed he might admit that all sister said was that she saw William run off and that she thought--perhaps from something William had said to her, perhaps for another reason--that he was going to meet MFC's car.

You ask a good question, where William and sister would have been and where the car would have been if the children had seen it. If they were playing on the grassed area by the patio they might have seen the car approach the carport, but then FFC and FGM should have heard the car, and William disappeared in the opposite direction from what those adults are saying. On the other hand, if he'd gone in the direction he was said to have gone, and seen the car coming up Benaroon Drive after it passed the Wilsons', being at that time still in sight of sister as she played about the grassed area near the patio, that's a long run down to the road; William couldn't expect to intercept the car before it turned the corner. I don't know if it's expecting too much of a three-year-old, but the sensible thing would be to turn around, run the other way and meet him at the end of the drive. Which brings us back to why the adults didn't hear the car. If the Millers could hear a car turning from their back deck, surely FFC and/or FGM would have noticed one from their patio--if it was up that end of Benaroon Drive.

In the walk through that the FGM did, she contradicted herself, as she implied that William was getting restless and wouldn't stay doing things such as drawing, or rolling the side, but then said that they all would have been doing activities on the patio for about one hour. I don't believe for one moment that William would have remained on that patio for that time, without getting restless...

 

[KateM]

"It's hard to put into detail what happened because I had to say it so many times to so many people and I know there is so many people who want to know the exact details and those sorts of things but it's just so personal for us...it's just our last time with him and I feel like I want to keep a lot of those really special memories for us personal, they're our family memories and I know people want to know more but I just, I've just got to keep some things private and special it's just as the time goes on with the whole thing it's just really hard now to keep talking about what happened on that morning"

From the Where's William podcast.

 

[KateM]

So we haven't heard anything official from the Coroner, in regards to the timestamp on the FFC's camera, have we?

 

[JLZ]

"It's hard to put into detail what happened because I had to say it so many times to so many people and I know there is so many people who want to know the exact details and those sorts of things but it's just so personal for us...it's just our last time with him and I feel like I want to keep a lot of those really special memories for us personal, they're our family memories and I know people want to know more but I just, I've just got to keep some things private and special it's just as the time goes on with the whole thing it's just really hard now to keep talking about what happened on that morning"

From the Where's William podcast.

Was that in answer to a question or was it just sort of floating by itself?

 

[KateM]

Was that in answer to a question or was it just sort of floating by itself?

I'll have to listen to it again, but who knows with the FM?

 

[JLZ]

I'll have to listen to it again, but who knows with the FM?

It is peculiar to agree to participate in a podcast about William's disappearance and then not want to talk about how it happened, because that's personal, and because she told a bunch of other people already. I just wondered if she made that excuse/diversion after a specific question she didn't want to answer.