Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #13

[SouthAussie]

In criminal cases the standard of proof is boyond reasonable doubt. However, in civil cased the standard of proof is on the balance of probabilities.

The judge's comment about the alleged abuse couldn't have been in a criminal trial. My guess is that it was a Family Court custody matter where the judge has to make decisions based on all the evidence. If a party makes allegations about another party, the judge would have to assess which version he believes for each allegation.

The judge also has to make findings on credibility, so it is not just a factual finding, but the comments by the judge do seem a bit extreme.

We all need to remember though that we don't know what the judge actually said. We are just relying on a journalist's interpretation and the comments could have been taken completely out of context.

Aren't Family Court matters non-media-reportable .... unless they are about fugitive parents?

Oops, sorry Makara ... just saw your post.

 

[Herberth]

These are very difficult to read
In the conclusion of this study (or abstract of) http://msl.sagepub.com/content/52/4/193.abstract it describes 'healed evidence' so I guess it depends on different circumstances, possibly age and how violent the attack may have been?
I need to step away and read something light before I go to sleep tonight.

This was a link from the bottom of sosocurious' post above.

 

[Makara]

The judge wasn't diagnosing her.
You can be compulsive bizarre and obsessive without having a medical condition, I think he was saying she is a compulsive liar perhaps.
Being a victim of abuse doesn't automatically make someone honest.

Yes I agree Karen. I offered two scenario's in my post. One, the judge was suggesting that the witness suffered from psychological problems and I questioned his expertise in saying that. Secondly that he was just a nasty piece of work for the name calling of the witness. The MSM report about this is all a bit ambiguous really. My understanding of it all is that the judge was being a prick!

 

[Makara]

We have heard about some judges in recent years - just saying. imo

I've been pleasantly plissed with some judges - just saying. :blush:

 

[sosocurious]

I've been pleasantly plissed with some judges - just saying. :blush:

Were they impartial as judges are supposed to be

That is in reference to the judges comments not you getting pleasantly plissed.

 

[Makara]

Aren't Family Court matters non-media-reportable .... unless they are about fugitive parents?

Oops, sorry Makara ... just saw your post.

Snap and high five SA.

 

[sleepinoz]

Aren't Family Court matters non-media-reportable .... unless they are about fugitive parents?

Oops, sorry Makara ... just saw your post.

Family Court Matter I understand are non reportable in the Media. I'm wondering if these reports are coming from the 83 page file that was handed to the court by BS at the Bail hearing, would this then make them available as Bail documents?

 

[sleepinoz]

The statement from the judge about the witness being bizarre and obsessive makes me think that this statement is from an older case where women weren't heard.

I doubt a judge in recent times would label someone in this manner. In saying this I have doubts about many recent decisions made by our Judges.

 

[Makara]

She is the witness - I don't think she is the victim. imo

Exactly Soso. Yet O'Brien (BS's solicitor) is inferring that the real victims, the little girls BS's is alleged to have raped and assaulted, were lying, having been tutored and coached in what to say. So where did the horrific injuries come from? Oh that's right, from Jeffrey Hillsley, who just happened to be in jail when those injuries occurred in 1987.

 

[krig101]

Police ALSO uncovered records held by the NSW FACS concerning persistent sexual abuse in the MID 1980's.

The case where the judge has said the witness is bizarre and he is reasonably satisfied abuse by BS and another woman did not occur - IMO could well be before the 1987 allegations that have medical evidence that abuse did occur.

The judge said the woman had a propensity to make allegations against men of various kinds.

Well I am not going to make any judgement on this woman until I hear the evidence.While the witness can not be named it could be presumed that her brother is a paedophile and her ex-partner is an accused paedophile.
There is medical evidence to confirm the 2 girls have been sexually abused during April and May 1987 ... just maybe there was ongoing abuse. IMO

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...h-three-children/story-e6frgczx-1227322290523

The judge said the woman had a propensity to make allegations against men of various kinds.

A paedophile ring?


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[Cleaver Greene]

I have bought a copy of the Australian and, having read the article on paper, I THINK all of the comments are from the judge in an earlier case. This is because the article talks about information gleaned from court documents (as opposed to what was heard at the bail application). Its very difficult to know though because the article is ambiguous.

That would also make sense of the comment about the witness being "obsessive, compulsive and bizarre" because the judge could be referrig to his perceptions of the way she gave evidence.

The entire article refers to an earlier Family Court hearing. The judge's comment was that the conduct of the witness could only be described as "obsessive, compulsive and bizarre". That is, he was describing her conduct, not her as a person.

 

[blefuscu]

In a criminologist and false reporting of rape and sexual assault is rare the world over. Yes it does happen, but no more frequently than false allegations of other crimes. Being "reasonably satisfied" that this didn't happen doesn't mean that it didn't actually happen, and if it was from the 1980s then the courts really didn't take child abuse and sexual abuse as seriously as they do now, and survivors still have a hard time getting authorities to believe them. Personally I'm finding multiple allegations against one man, and the "coincidences" of him being linked to this case rather worrying. Just because he has a clean record doesn't mean he's not an offender, just that he hasn't been caught.

 

[spiritualdreaming]

When I went thru my custody battle 2 yrs ago my lawyer gave me a few case notes on other family law matters, for me to see how they play out and also to get an understanding of what clauses I wanted to put in place. So maybe someone has the previous case notes and media got a glimpse wrote and article but have left out the bit that it relates to family law...obviously this is MO

Oh and trust me my judge didn't say some very nice thing's towards the father either...judge's don't like lies when there's evidence to prove them wrong cause your just wasting their court time

 

[Makara]

When I went thru my custody battle 2 yrs ago my lawyer gave me a few case notes on other family law matters, for me to see how they play out and also to get an understanding of what clauses I wanted to put in place. So maybe someone has the previous case notes and media got a glimpse wrote and article but have left out the bit that it relates to family law...obviously this is MO

Oh and trust me my judge didn't say some very nice thing's towards the father either...judge's don't like lies when there's evidence to prove them wrong cause your just wasting their court time

Thanks spiritualdreaming. Did the case notes you mentioned reveal the names of the parties involved?

 

[Makara]

In a criminologist and false reporting of rape and sexual assault is rare the world over. Yes it does happen, but no more frequently than false allegations of other crimes. Being "reasonably satisfied" that this didn't happen doesn't mean that it didn't actually happen, and if it was from the 1980s then the courts really didn't take child abuse and sexual abuse as seriously as they do now, and survivors still have a hard time getting authorities to believe them. Personally I'm finding multiple allegations against one man, and the "coincidences" of him being linked to this case rather worrying. Just because he has a clean record doesn't mean he's not an offender, just that he hasn't been caught.

Amen.

Or more to the point, just that he hasn't been found guilty yet.

 

[Makara]

The judge said the woman had a propensity to make allegations against men of various kinds.

A paedophile ring?


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And a woman trying to protect her children?

 

[Makara]

The entire article refers to an earlier Family Court hearing. The judge's comment was that the conduct of the witness could only be described as "obsessive, compulsive and bizarre". That is, he was describing her conduct, not her as a person.

According to the article the judge didn't say that at all. There is no mention of the conduct of the witness. It simply states that a key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre” by a judge. There is no mention of her conduct.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sub...tory-e6frg6nf-1227416930616&memtype=anonymous

 

[blefuscu]

Amen.

Or more to the point, just that he hasn't been found guilty yet.

Oh absolutely. I won't say that BS is guilty. However I don't think that all these links are coincidental. No one is THAT unlucky. Plus his story on the day William went missing doesn't add up or the police wouldn't have named him a POI, if his alibi cleared him.

 

[Manny83]

I understand that Facebook isn't MSM and the restrictions involved, but I hope it's alright to ask : does the bf have a Facebook page? If so, it's beyond weird! Or belongs to someone else? An uncle? If I shouldn't ask this, please let me know.

Doesn't have an account (or it's private)

 

[skinnycat]

This peddo ring makes me think that BS set up William's abduction, took William and passed him off right away, or gave the information to someone else so they could take William, like how secluded grandma's is, when William would be there. I do believe that old BS knows where William is and who he is with.

BS is into little girls, there has been no indication that he is into both boys and girls, there are no boys/men that have come forward with any allegations of abuse. BS didn't take William for his own sickness he helped take him for someone else's.

Who are some of these people that BS passed children to years ago,

I have to wonder if the police know William is alive because they have pictures of William from after his abduction, that is also what brought about the world wide notification of William's abduction