Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #15

[Pink-flamingo]

If you were going to abduct a child you knew of would you drive up the street with another car in tow and sit in full view of the house for seems like at least half an hour, possibly see the mother walk onto balcony and play outside but just sit there....? It to me does not make sense at all. Would most abductors work in a team of 2 cars? Even though they have not come forward I'm not convinced they were involved. There is a few possibilities as 2 why the cars were there IMO. The walking track? House for sale? The cemetery? And as I've said before English as a second language or an overseas visitor are possibilities as to why the have not come forward. Also robberies. I'm sure the police know of local house robberies and to me it's a valid scearnario for people to be scoping out homes for break ins and would be another reason not to come forward. Maybe Malcom Turnbull can help....[emoji12]


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I think if it was the walking track, cemetery or house for sale.. then these people would be would have later heard about what's happened and would know to present themselves to police. Even before these 2 cars were revealed, police were already saying that they knew there were people in the area that day that hadnt turned themselves into a police station.

I considered your point about foreign investors / ESL people. But they'd be in hire cars, which a re new models. Not daggy old 20 year old cars.

Robberies maybe. But it seems a stretch for a thief to steal a child.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.capitalbay.com/australia...one-within-a-kilometre-of-toddler-s-home.html
02/18/2015 10:25

Old news, but very interesting.
Perhaps once more to evaluate now after releasing the wanted cars/drivers?

 

[butterstick]

You pull up in the vehicle. You get out and grab the child from down the drive way making your way back to the vehicle at a rapid rate. This takes longer than you think opening the door etc. You put the bright red Spiderman on the seat, some how. You run around to the other side of the vehicle, climb in to take off. Spiderman says, dude, this is so totally non compliant child restraint. How far are you going to get with a non compliant bright red Spiderman in your car? Your not driving far with a non compliant Spiderman in your car.
So you have to drive every minute with bright red Spiderman on the other side of the vehicle unrestrained and not happy about leaving home.

I did wonder how someone drove any distance with an upset child.

It's not nice to think about.

At first the kid could hide in the passenger leg-room area, perhaps hiding to surprise dad. After that I guess he has to be coaxed into staying there somehow.

Probably best not to think about it too deeply, except to say the initial get-away is not something that would take two people, or any level of organisation. Not necessarily.

 

[tracecomp]

OK, So you attempt to abduct Spiderman on your own.

You pull up in the vehicle. You get out and grab the child from down the drive way making your way back to the vehicle at a rapid rate. This takes longer than you think opening the door etc. You put the bright red Spiderman on the seat, some how. You run around to the other side of the vehicle, climb in to take off. Spiderman says, dude, this is so totally non compliant child restraint. How far are you going to get with a non compliant bright red Spiderman in your car? Your not driving far with a non compliant Spiderman in your car.
So you have to drive every minute with bright red Spiderman on the other side of the vehicle unrestrained and not happy about leaving home.

You wouldnt be going far on your own with bright red Spiderman climbing everywhere, surely? Maybe check every household in a 3 mile radius? You'd want to know the 5 Ws'.

If the car had a boot they could be locked in it without anybody noticing. When my kids have been fighting, whinging, throwing fast food at each other (mum - they are throwing chicken nuggets at me - well catch them and eat them if you are hungry) or screaming at each other in the past I might admit to fantasising of locking one of them in the boot for the 40 minute drive home for some peace - but I channelled my inner Zen to block out the noise to avoid an accident and make it home so they could have "time out" in their rooms to calm down. Thankfully for everybody they have matured and understand driving safely in a car means no distractions for the driver. PS - Please note no children were harmed in the formulation of this scenario.

 

[Hilly]

Yes it would be good to see the Google earth shot

The place was Kew.

photos from Google earth

 

[Found]

I think if it was the walking track, cemetery or house for sale.. then these people would be would have later heard about what's happened and would know to present themselves to police. Even before these 2 cars were revealed, police were already saying that they knew there were people in the area that day that hadnt turned themselves into a police station.

I considered your point about foreign investors / ESL people. But they'd be in hire cars, which a re new models. Not daggy old 20 year old cars.

Robberies maybe. But it seems a stretch for a thief to steal a child.

Agree with you about foreigners having rental cars so good point. Regarding the robbery theory I did not mean they took William just meant they would not come forward perhaps.


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[Cleaver Greene]

Yes, I've read the Baden-Clay thing many times on here, I get it.
But i doubt the drug deal theory (even on its own). This is a tiny country town. I dont imagine clandestine drug deals are taking place, particularly not down a little cul de sac on a friday morning.
Even if I was to imagine thats why the two cars were there, I find it an even bigger stretch that two drug-dealers would decide on a whim to take a child.
We have stronger theories than that here.

That's exactly the kind of place a significant drug deal would, and does take place, every day. Especially if one of the parties has a mate living in the remote cul de sac. I don't see junkies kidnapping a child to sell, but its entirely possible that a child is hit by a car and the driver, off his/her face on meth, deals with it by throwing an injured child in the car and driving off.

 

[Found]

The place was Kew.

Interesting and good find but is it 2015? And really its just the station wagon as other car not really the same but similar.


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[Pink-flamingo]

Agree with you about foreigners having rental cars so good point. Regarding the robbery theory I did not mean they took William just meant they would not come forward perhaps.


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Ah yes I see what you mean.. That's why they can't come forward, even though they're not involved. Ok, fair point.

 

[Found]

If the car had a boot they could be locked in it without anybody noticing. When my kids have been fighting, whinging, throwing fast food at each other (mum - they are throwing chicken nuggets at me - well catch them and eat them if you are hungry) or screaming at each other in the past I might admit to fantasising of locking one of them in the boot for the 40 minute drive home for some peace - but I channelled my inner Zen to block out the noise to avoid an accident and make it home so they could have "time out" in their rooms to calm down. Thankfully for everybody they have matured and understand driving safely in a car means no distractions for the driver. PS - Please note no children were harmed in the formulation of this scenario.

I think if someone took him He would not be in the front but the back? Also I would think he would of been restrained wether it be drugs or kiddy locked etc. I find it unlikely he was just sitting in the front seat.


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[jigzy]

I've been wondering about the reasons for the presence of those 2 cars:

In addition to what's already been posted by others, I've considered the idea that the 2 cars were a couple (married to others) having an affair or breaking up, hence being there a while. Brought 2 cars, sat in one, talked through stuff, can't come forward for obvious reasons.

Brazen persons scouting some place out, though I have no idea why they would bring 2 vehicles other than if they were expecting to take someone on in a fight and came as a gang....to threaten/warn.

A drugs exchange makes no sense to me given that the cars were there for a while, I think. A drugs exchange would be swifter.

The oddest thing, I find, is that the cars were facing away from the easiest getaway route. This tells me that they were there to look, not act. Does that make sense?

Jmo

 

[crabstick]

Im not saying they did it.

But this is how it could go. Two cars rock up, they park on the street up the way a little, because normally if they knew the house owner, they would normally pull in the drive of the large blocks as mentioned by someone local but the two cars dont.
The two car have stolen number plates. The people get out with the windows down.
Windows down doesn't make people suspicious to whether people might be in the cars. That is clear.
The 3 occupants of the cars walk up the street into cover. They watch the house behind cover until the parents go inside. One stays at the rear in cover to call if parents move outside to kids and discover the obvious. The spotter watches. The other two move down. They pull up the drive, the passenger gets out and drags William into the car within 3 seconds. The driver drives off.
The other person walks down out of cover, gets in and casually drives off. They are not from Kendall.

If you were going to abduct a child you knew of would you drive up the street with another car in tow and sit in full view of the house for seems like at least half an hour, possibly see the mother walk onto balcony and play outside but just sit there....? It to me does not make sense at all. Would most abductors work in a team of 2 cars? Even though they have not come forward I'm not convinced they were involved. There is a few possibilities as 2 why the cars were there IMO. The walking track? House for sale? The cemetery? And as I've said before English as a second language or an overseas visitor are possibilities as to why the have not come forward. Also robberies. I'm sure the police know of local house robberies and to me it's a valid scearnario for people to be scoping out homes for break ins and would be another reason not to come forward. Maybe Malcom Turnbull can help....[emoji12]


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[Karinna]

I think William could of been taken to somewhere nearby in Kendall because the alert for his disappearance would have gone out very quickly as he was found to be missing very quickly, and the police called very soon after. Would they have had road blocks out of Kendall to try and apprehend anyone that had him in a vehicle? I would of thought so, but i don't know.
As far as pedophile rings go, don't they usually go for older children than a three year old? We have learned so far in this case that police got a child molestor that was molesting an 11 yr. old girl, and that some perp. tried to pick up a 9 yr. old boy near that area that William was taken from. And now the other person that said someone approached her son about a month ago, who i think was also around 11 years old who lived only a couple of streets away. Seems like those kinds of perps. are definitely lurking around those areas and its scary to know they're out there. I hope the police catch all of them to make those towns safer for the kids that live there.

 

[Rayemonde]

I know it's not directly addressing the case but I have to say I really dislike the phrase 'paedophile ring.' It seems to imply some sophisticated group of paedophiles undertaking coordinated acts. I think it gives such a group a lot more 'validity' than they deserve. I can't say I really know exactly what such a group would do but I see it as some seedy little group of horrible people discussing awful topics and perhaps sharing pornographic material. I don't see anything sophisticated about it.

That's why, when people say William could be linked to such a 'ring', I think it's disingenuous. It seems to imply some coordinated group that might have pre-arranged the kidnapping to 'sell' him on or share him? In reality I can't see this actually occurring. More likely is someone picked him up and called one of his weirdo friends to share in his spoils so to speak.

I really apologise if this post is too confronting.

I agree kind of... I know that paedophile rings exist and swap children around to be abused etc, but the children are usually their own children or children that they have easy, risk-free access to (eg. a friend who allows them to babysit). I can't think of any other cases where a child in a happy home was just snatched in an abduction by a paedophile ring - it's just too risky. Everyone is out looking for the child, the police are raiding homes and taking computers, there are too many paedophiles who know what happened to the child and could let the secret out, and the whole ring is in jeopardy. Why take that risk when they can just groom children that they already have access to?

In a way, paedophile rings are *too* well organised to take such a risk. I can't think of a single other case where it has happened. There are cases where paedophiles have adopted a child and then passed them around a paedophile ring, but abducting a child and then keeping them alive and passing them around is just too risky. The chances are too great that someone will recognise the child and report it... The only cases I can think of where a paedophile has kept a child alive for a long time after snatching them are cases where the abductor has kept them almost completely hidden for years and told no one else about the child. Not passed them around a ring or put videos of them online or anything like that. Yes it's possible, but a person acting alone or with a friend is much more likely rather than an organised kidnapping that involved a whole group of people.

 

[crabstick]

If they parked on the side facing out, that would be Williams side of the road, which would make them look suspicious.

The oddest thing, I find, is that the cars were facing away from the easiest getaway route. This tells me that they were there to look, not act. Does that make sense?

Jmo

Google Earth

 

[perkerkel]

I keep thinking that where I live a small country town in South Australia there are LOTS of old station wagons on the road. Mostly driven by overseas labourers or travellers that I assume work picking and packing on local horticultural blocks. Maybe this sort of car would be attractive and affordable to new emigrants saving their nest egg for a cheap home.
Not the sort of people that would yet be part of the local community or be keen to draw police attention to themselves.
Just thinking laterally again!

I think if it was the walking track, cemetery or house for sale.. then these people would be would have later heard about what's happened and would know to present themselves to police. Even before these 2 cars were revealed, police were already saying that they knew there were people in the area that day that hadnt turned themselves into a police station.

I considered your point about foreign investors / ESL people. But they'd be in hire cars, which a re new models. Not daggy old 20 year old cars.

Robberies maybe. But it seems a stretch for a thief to steal a child.

 

[Eloise]

As far as pedophile rings go, don't they usually go for older children than a three year old?

Ugh, sadly to say.... no....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32413508

How 'vile' paedophile ring targeted victims

They were part of an "organised paedophile network" with "tentacles around the world" that arranged the rape of young children, some of them babies.

Three young victims - a baby, a toddler and a child under five - have been identified from thousands of images seized as part of the inquiry, but police believe there are more.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34219235

[h=1]Paedophile ring jailed for 'terrifying depravity'[/h]The court was told the men would drive hundreds of miles for a chance to rape or abuse a child.

The group, who lived at addresses across England, raped and assaulted three children - a baby, a toddler and a young child - between 2013 and 2014.

Bristol Crown Court heard the men groomed families to get to children, in one case targeting a pregnant woman in order to abuse her baby after its birth.
They would stream and watch attacks live online, providing encouragement to those carrying out abuse. They also shared advice over online chat logs about how to drug young victims.

 

[Hilly]

There is a date Stamp on the Sedan that says Google 2014 it's really light you have to enlarge the car close up. I wasn't sure what car the sedan was couldn't tell if new or old or make not very car savvy.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

I agree kind of... I know that paedophile rings exist and swap children around to be abused etc, but the children are usually their own children or children that they have easy, risk-free access to (eg. a friend who allows them to babysit). I can't think of any other cases where a child in a happy home was just snatched in an abduction by a paedophile ring - it's just too risky. Everyone is out looking for the child, the police are raiding homes and taking computers, there are too many paedophiles who know what happened to the child and could let the secret out, and the whole ring is in jeopardy. Why take that risk when they can just groom children that they already have access to?

In a way, paedophile rings are *too* well organised to take such a risk. I can't think of a single other case where it has happened. There are cases where paedophiles have adopted a child and then passed them around a paedophile ring, but abducting a child and then keeping them alive and passing them around is just too risky. The chances are too great that someone will recognise the child and report it... The only cases I can think of where a paedophile has kept a child alive for a long time after snatching them are cases where the abductor has kept them almost completely hidden for years and told no one else about the child. Not passed them around a ring or put videos of them online or anything like that. Yes it's possible, but a person acting alone or with a friend is much more likely rather than an organised kidnapping that involved a whole group of people.

I agree with this. There are hundreds of places someone could snatch a child that would be less risky. The local playground, swimming pool, shopping centre, football match.

 

[crabstick]

The two cars together in the same image is exciting Hilly.

Looks like the two cars. When were images taken? The dark car is very unique. That has team written all over it. Is hard to say as the image data has been stripped in the upload. If I had the link I could find the date.

The place was Kew.

photos from Google earth

There is a date Stamp on the Sedan that says Google 2014 it's really light you have to enlarge the car close up. I wasn't sure what car the sedan was couldn't tell if new or old or make not very car savvy.