Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #25

[Eloise]

Violet77, I think its less that there is evidence that he's alive and more that there is no evidence he's not.

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[Bohemian]

But there is also no evidence (that is being shared with us) that suggests he's alive.
Obviously the police know more than us, but there has been no news of what direction the whole story went in after little William rounded the corner of his Grandmother's house.
I wonder what is pushing them to really believe he is alive, or that someone really did take him, I know the searches were extensive, but without evidence pointing either way, nothing can be ruled out, or are they sharing the hopes of him being alive with the public to motivate people to help more with the thought of a poor little man out there somewhere needing people to share info to find his way home, but really it's only going to help police find the perpetrator (which we all
obviously want also).
They apparently ruled out the entire family, including extended family, the chances of a childless couple/ person stumbling across little William alone for those few minutes is documented very slim, & the only motive police have suggested is a pedophile or ring of, but the chances of him surviving this long are also slim, especially with all the heat surrounding the case, why would anyone keep him this long, I find it hard to believe he would be alive unfortunately, I do wonder why the police state so strongly that they believe he is.


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Violet77, I think its less that there is evidence that he's alive and more that there is no evidence he's not.

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My point exactly.

 

[Bowman]

Doing some research into Peter Hyatt and his Statement Analysis principles and I think they may be of some help here. I found Hyatt's YouTube interview with Richard D Hall about Madeleine McCann and his work on Katelyn Markam's 911 call to be a revelation. Hyatt shows how emergency service calls or indeed any time a suspect is allowed to speak freely can be vital in determining if that person has guilty knowledge of a crime. He posits a number of theories on the importance of: greetings, priority of information, pronouns, tenses, apologies, concern for victim, and more. On a side note, I find it very interesting that police sometimes release emergency call audio and sometimes do not. In the case of William Tyrrell, the police have chosen to release the audio of the call. I have transcribed it for analysis as Hyatt recommends examining the words.
---
000 Call William Tyrrell

Emergency operator - Op
William Tyrrell's Mother - WTM




Op: Police emergency this is Simone.


WTM: Yeah hi my son is missing, he's 3 and a half...


Op: (inaudible)


WTM: Um, Sorry?


Op: Your address?


WTM: Benaroon Drive.


Op: Yes.


WTM: Kendall.


Op: OK Benaroon Drive in Kendall?


WTM: Yes.


Op: Alright I'm just going to bring that up on my map, won't be a moment.


WTM: Thank you.


Op: How long has he been missing?


WTM: I th-, well, I think, well we've been looking in, for him now for about 15 or 20 minutes (Op: OK...) but, ahh... I thought it could be 5, it could be longer cause he was just playing around here, we heard him, and then we heard nothing.


Op: OK, so I've got the nearest cross street being Ellendale Crescent, (WTM: It's, oh...) is that right?


WTM: So-, what is it?


Operator: Ellendale Crescent.


WTM: I don't know my, this is my Mum's house... ah hang on just. There's a another lady out helping us look for him, I'll see if I can find her, but it's Benaroon B-E-N-A-R double O-N.


Operator: Yeah, yeah I can see, I can see where you are I just wanted yeah, so it wa-, it's Benaroon Drive in Kendall and I've just got, I've got your nearest cross as being Ellendale Crescent.


WTM: It could be, I don't know.


Operator: OK. So he's been missing since about 10:30?


WTM: Yeah, I'd say so.


Op: OK, can you describe him to me, how tall, obviously not very tall...


WTM: No, he,(Op interrupts: inaudible) he'd be about 2 and a half feet. He's wearing a Spider-Man outfit.


Op: Yeah, what colour hair has he got?


WTM: Um, he's got, um dark sandy coloured hair, it's short and he's got really big, ah brownie-green coloured eyes.


OP: OK. Would he have had have any shoes on do you know, any, any other distinguishing...features?


WTM: Um, uum, uuum he has, oh he's got a freckle on the top of his head when you part the hair on the left hand side (Op: Yep) you'll see a freckle on the top of his head.


OP: OK. Alright. Do you know where he might have gone?


WTM: Um we're li-, we actually live, well Mum's property's near a State forest... (Op: OK) and they're on huge blocks, we've walked up and down Benaroon Drive... and we can't find him.


OP: OK, what's his name?


WTM: William.


OP: So what's William's Surname?


WTM: Ah Tyrrell T-Y-double R-E-double L.


Op: OK has he been known to sort of go anywhere before?


WTM: No this is the first time (Op: It's the first time he's wandered off?) so it's completely out of character.


Op: There wasn't anyone um suspicious in the area, any vehicles?


WTM: No, no, no, no, well not that I, no, not that I'm aware of.. we were just, I was out there talking with Mum and my... other daughter so...


Op: OK.


WTM: And we her him roaring around the garden and... then I though oh... I haven't heard him I better go... check on him and... can't find him.


Op: OK, alright, we'll send police to see you at Benaroon Drive in Kendall, we'll also get the um a message broadcasted to all the cars to keep a look out for him as well OK?


WTM: Yeah for sure,thanks (inaudible) thanks bye bye.


Op: Bye.


---

Peter Hyatt talks to Richard D Hall about Madeleine McCann -
[video=youtube;K0SDo86ws2Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0SDo86ws2Q[/video]

 

[frogwell]

I'm interested in statement analysis in this case however I wondered if other members had an opinion on it's effectiveness. The statements we have access to on this case are few and far between and I wonder how much having to conceal identity in this situation could be mis-analysed (if that's even a word). But I have looked at this man's work and found it very interesting. MOO

 

[Rayemonde]

It's pseudoscience imo, and I don't believe Hyatt's claims to train FBI agents etc. Statement analysis is not used in courts of law or on probable cause documents, and there's a reason for that.

We're actually not allowed to discuss or link to Hyatt's blog here on websleuths.

 

[frogwell]

It's pseudoscience imo, and I don't believe Hyatt's claims to train FBI agents etc. Statement analysis is not used in courts of law or on probable cause documents, and there's a reason for that.

We're actually not allowed to discuss or link to Hyatt's blog here on websleuths.

Just wondering though, do the police use any similar type of analysis on statements that are gathered in big cases to further an investigation? e.g. We looked into person (a)more because of analysis done on their statement, and upon 2nd, 3rd questioning, we knew we had a suspect?

 

[Bowman]

Fair questions. In terms of effectiveness, I think the two analyses (McCann and Markham) speak for themselves. From what I've seen, most of Hyatt's work is done from only one statement or one emergency call. There are actually several interviews with William's parents that could be looked at. Moreso than identity (nobody has questioned the 'parents' identity in any of the interviews so far), I believe the analysis may be obscured by their not being blood relations. Having said that, it's eminently possible to analyse what is said - seeing someone's face is not necessary when dissecting their words.

To be clear, I have no firm opinion yet as to the parent's guilt or innocence. My very novice examination of the 000 call indicates some strange things from the Mum including:- the greeting, the apology, hesitation on pronouns, needed prompting to name William, but I'd welcome any input from other sleuths.

I feel I should also say that I don't believe he would have been intentionally harmed by the parents who seem to care. If it turns out they do have guilty knowledge of his whereabouts, I suspect we'll discover that William fell or died by some accident. Their hypothetical motivation for covering something like that up is, of course, the fear of losing custody of their other foster-child.

In the following interview, I find it a little odd that they seem to be condemning 'someone who took William and thinks it's OK'. This sounds like conditional language to me and almost begs the question - 'Would it be different if someone took him and didn't think it was OK, like if it was an accident?'. Their condemnation is not unequivocal and leaves the possibility that whoever took William could be forgiven as long as they knew it was not OK to do so. I find this unexpected.

I know this has veered into more speculation about the parents. I am not saying they're involved. I think any evidence we have deserves scrutiny.
The thing that first got me wondering is - why would police have released the emergency call audio in a case like this?

William Tyrrell's parents interviewed by the Daily Telegraph -

[video=youtube;rVtjtjXaQaM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVtjtjXaQaM[/video]

 

[Bowman]

Oh wow I did not know about that ban. Apologies to admin if that's the case.

 

[Violet77]

Violet77, I think its less that there is evidence that he's alive and more that there is no evidence he's not.

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But statistically speaking, there really should be evidence pointing towards him being alive before publicly making the assumption that he is.


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[butterstick]

The phone call seems reasonable to me.

There is no perfect way to ask for help in this situation.

Main thing is though, I don't see any inkling of dishonesty or false concern in that phone call. Just a mother who is confused and scared, and reaching out reasonably quickly out of worry that something bigger may of happened.

 

[Bowman]

With relation to BS - Lance Williams was lead suspect in the Claremont serial murder case for 20 years - they've recently charged someone else. I have serious doubts that a paedophile ring is involved with WT. If that turns out to be the case, that a paedophile ring kidnapped a kid off the street in broad daylight, it would be virtually unprecedented (still nobody knows what happened to Johnny Gosch). Am VERY interested to see that BS has never been officially made a suspect and that the term POI is a 90s creation with a very grey legal definition. To me, that makes a certain website's sleuthing policies look arbitrary and unenforceable. I believe anyone connected to a case should be fair game for discussion. We're only a bunch of folks chatting fer Pete's sake.

Question - do you notice the distinct difference between the accents of the foster parents and the lead Detective Gary Jubelin? Jubelin is fiercely blue-collar whereas the family are quite well to do. While I know it's wrong to judge people's intelligence by the way they speak, I feel like the parents could easily use the power/status imbalance to pull the wool over Jubelin's eyes (if they hypothetically needed to) - like Jonbenet's parents did.


Jubelin on 60 Minutes

[video=youtube;E3HNcCOob4Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3HNcCOob4Y[/video]

 

[tiddles24]

I still find it very odd that FM asked FD if William was with him before FD got out of his car, on his return from the business phone call......If my memory serves me correctly, I thought FD left well before FM & FGM went inside to make the cup of tea & William's sister went inside to go to the bathroom, leaving William outside on his own & then to disappear in that precise timeline......It just doesn't make sense to me why FM asked FD if William was with him......How could William be with him?

There were also differences in FD's timeline being that William was only unsupervised for 10-15 minutes & FM's timeline being 20-25 minutes.......Why would FD say 10-15 minutes when he wasn't even at FGM's home when William actually disappeared, as he was away from the home making his business phone call......This just doesn't make sense to me.

At times, I'm sorry to say this, but I do wonder if "one or both" FP's know what really happened to William & are not letting on......It is possible.
Right from the beginning of William's disappearance, FM immediately felt that it was an abduction over anything else...why?

I don't think we will ever know the truth......I feel that this case will just drag on & on...MOO..:dunno:

 

[Bohemian]

With relation to BS - Lance Williams was lead suspect in the Claremont serial murder case for 20 years - they've recently charged someone else. I have serious doubts that a paedophile ring is involved with WT. If that turns out to be the case, that a paedophile ring kidnapped a kid off the street in broad daylight, it would be virtually unprecedented (still nobody knows what happened to Johnny Gosch). Am VERY interested to see that BS has never been officially made a suspect and that the term POI is a 90s creation with a very grey legal definition. To me, that makes a certain website's sleuthing policies look arbitrary and unenforceable. I believe anyone connected to a case should be fair game for discussion. We're only a bunch of folks chatting fer Pete's sake.

Question - do you notice the distinct difference between the accents of the foster parents and the lead Detective Gary Jubelin? Jubelin is fiercely blue-collar whereas the family are quite well to do. While I know it's wrong to judge people's intelligence by the way they speak, I feel like the parents could easily use the power/status imbalance to pull the wool over Jubelin's eyes (if they hypothetically needed to) - like Jonbenet's parents did.


Jubelin on 60 Minutes

[video=youtube;E3HNcCOob4Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3HNcCOob4Y[/video]

BBM.

To answer your question, Bowman; yes I did but as far as anyone 'pulling the wool over [DCI] Jubelin's eyes', not in a million years.

 

[katydid23]

The phone call seems reasonable to me.

There is no perfect way to ask for help in this situation.

Main thing is though, I don't see any inkling of dishonesty or false concern in that phone call. Just a mother who is confused and scared, and reaching out reasonably quickly out of worry that something bigger may of happened.

I agree with you. There is one major thing I learned from Statement Analysis, although some of it seems a stretch----one major thing that seems valid is that when someone is GUILTY, and they call 911---they put THEIR ALIBI UPFRONT.

Like " I just got home from work, and my wife is not breathing..." OR" I just woke up and came downstairs, and my husband is dead."

I have seen that over and over with people who end up being guilty of the crime they are reporting. Innocent people put the important info upfront---'my husband is not breathing' should come before ' I just came home from work...'


I didn't see anything like that in this call.

 

[thylacine7]

It's pseudoscience imo, and I don't believe Hyatt's claims to train FBI agents etc. Statement analysis is not used in courts of law or on probable cause documents, and there's a reason for that.

We're actually not allowed to discuss or link to Hyatt's blog here on websleuths.

Yep I'd agree with that, and with katydid23's assessment above this post.

Any time something is stated based on a person's interpretation it becomes problematic (and often inadmissable). Like a Rorschach test; it requires an examiner to interpret the subject's interpretation... but who interpret's the interpreter's interpretation? etc etc.

 

[tiddles24]

I wonder this all the time.. I find the Where's William.org site bizarre to say the least listing all his favourite foods and medications like an instruction manual to someone and would love to hear news that he's been found safe and well. After all this time, I just don't know... Where and how could you hide one of the most well-known three (now five)-year-old faces in Australia.. Breaks my heart to think about it.

This is what makes me think that maybe the foster parents do know more than they are letting on about William's whereabouts & are directing messages re all his favourite foods & medications, giving him lots of love etc.etc like an instruction manual on the Where's William.org site & elsewhere in media statements by the foster parents...Just bizarre...MOO...:dunno:

 

[hellsbells7]

Yes, I agree, find it odd there was confusion about it.. as a mum to a 3 1/2 year old, regardless where we are (city/country) I would be petrified to let my child run down near the road without me and not for stranger danger but merely road safety.. i find the whole interview strange, almost like a movie script... i hear nothing, i see nothing, im speechless, im walking around in a circle.. i had a vision..came to a screaming halt. Further in the interview, i sense she changes her story when talking about saying something to her mum as they wait because she then changes to doing the 'frantic thing running through the house'.. im aware they've all been 'cleared' but even tialeighs bio mum had no idea fosters were suspects. Just my thoughts and I respect that others feel differently

I still find it very odd that FM asked FD if William was with him before FD got out of his car, on his return from the business phone call......If my memory serves me correctly, I thought FD left well before FM & FGM went inside to make the cup of tea & William's sister went inside to go to the bathroom, leaving William outside on his own & then to disappear in that precise timeline......It just doesn't make sense to me why FM asked FD if William was with him......How could William be with him?

There were also differences in FD's timeline being that William was only unsupervised for 10-15 minutes & FM's timeline being 20-25 minutes.......Why would FD say 10-15 minutes when he wasn't even at FGM's home when William actually disappeared, as he was away from the home making his business phone call......This just doesn't make sense to me.

At times, I'm sorry to say this, but I do wonder if "one or both" FP's know what really happened to William & are not letting on......It is possible.
Right from the beginning of William's disappearance, FM immediately felt that it was an abduction over anything else...why?

I don't think we will ever know the truth......I feel that this case will just drag on & on...MOO..:dunno:

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[tiddles24]

Yes, I agree, find it odd there was confusion about it.. as a mum to a 3 1/2 year old, regardless where we are (city/country) I would be petrified to let my child run down near the road without me and not for stranger danger but merely road safety.. i find the whole interview strange, almost like a movie script... i hear nothing, i see nothing, im speechless, im walking around in a circle.. i had a vision..came to a screaming halt. Further in the interview, i sense she changes her story when talking about saying something to her mum as they wait because she then changes to doing the 'frantic thing running through the house'.. im aware they've all been 'cleared' but even tialeighs bio mum had no idea fosters were suspects. Just my thoughts and I respect that others feel differently





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Exactly hellsbells7...As though the lines had all been rehearsed very well as in a movie script - the foster parents had plenty of time to prepare their story, as it was quite a long while before they faced the media for the first time.

I sometimes still wonder if there was some sort of accident causing William's death...I am very aware that the foster parents, family & extended family were all cleared just days after William's disapearance, but it still makes me wonder, at times...MOO

 

[Violet77]

They're interviews (not 000 call) would have definitely been rehearsed or scripted to a certain extent because of the whole foster situation.
They weren't even allowed to "speak out" for seven months or so, whatever they said during those interviews would have had to fall within the guidelines of their legal reasons, I don't even doubt that FACS would have gone over it before it was released.


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[matey]

Someone out there knows what happened to William.

It's time for that someone to come forward and confess, so that justice can prevail.

This is my greatest wish for 2017