Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #25

[deugirtni]

Apr 18, 2015 - William Tyrrell is more or less a full time foster child, whose foster ... William was with his foster parents and foster grandmother when he was ...

Ref: Google search
Content: Google metadata
Source: The Australian Newspaper
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=QcL4V67uPKXM8geX24LYAg

Those words come from a commenter to a story published by The Australian, rather than from the news story itself.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...k=e77d40d05fffc3964d1c23cc2e9be654-1476013014

 

[deugirtni]

Building a shed and renovation is a rare occurrence for a rental property. Why would you build such a large shed on a rental property? You would have to have an excellent tenant to landlord relationship

Police excavated the burn-off section of the backyard, and also measured a concrete slab that was laid for a shed currently under construction. A development application for renovation of the house is believed to have been lodged some time last year.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Bill-Speddo-Spedding-came-police-radar.html

Do we know that it was the tenant as opposed to the home owner who took out the application? I don't believe the report specified that. It could be that the tenant negotiated with the owner for this improvement to be done, or it had been originally specified in the lease that it would be done at a later time, or even that the owner just wanted it done for his own use/reasons. ?

 

[crabstick]

Thats a lot of expenditure by the landlord in the hope of a return on investment. And potentially, right now, the landlord could lose his tenant just as the renovation is finished. More to the point,how well does the landlord know the tenant? I don't know any landlords that have carried out renovations with tenant on request, more so a large back shed that provides no real extra tenant rental increase via extra accommodation. Wonder what big back shed is for?

Do we know that it was the tenant as opposed to the home owner who took out the application? I don't believe the report specified that. It could be that the tenant negotiated with the owner for this improvement to be done, or it had been originally specified in the lease that it would be done at a later time, or even that the owner just wanted it done for his own use/reasons. ?

 

[crabstick]

True, and I dare say that the suppression order prevents the media from referring otherwise too. Thanks for picking it up.

How will it help us?

Maybe they were parents that had adopted at that point, and not foster in which case, it would be wrong in that case to call them foster. But it could be a court suppression order imposed on media.

Noun, 1. foster parent - a person who acts as parent and guardian for a child in place of the child's natural parents but without legally adopting the child.

Those words come from a commenter to a story published by The Australian, rather than from the news story itself.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...k=e77d40d05fffc3964d1c23cc2e9be654-1476013014

If Wills mum spoke to a white goods repair man on the phone, and white goods man knew of the family, it would be safe to presume the children were there, if they were not heard on the phone?

 

[Hbayne]

That could *possibly* speak to the possibility again, of the fostering situation being a voluntary one.. and not only that, but perhaps one in which the bio and foster parent(s) have an amicable relationship, with the 2 families possibly making agreements as to visitation arrangements, and perhaps even possible future (open?) adoption plans? Just a thought.. because that would seem to make for somewhat of a complicated family history, at least as far as for reporting purposes in the news, in regard to this whole story. It could also explain why it was said early on that "there is no history of family conflict." (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-wi...31-11fbdi.html

Also, was there talk recently of the possibility of someone perhaps moving overseas? If so, that could cause a kerfuffle in the amicability of such a relationship as above. jmo

Would there be such restrictions on ff and bio parents being so anonymous if that were the case though . If it was all so amicable and open then I would think that these incredibly strict reasons for anonymity may have been a little more lax.

 

[perkerkel]

Thats a lot of expenditure by the landlord in the hope of a return on investment. And potentially, right now, the landlord could lose his tenant just as the renovation is finished. More to the point,how well does the landlord know the tenant? I don't know any landlords that have carried out renovations with tenant on request, more so a large back shed that provides no real extra tenant rental increase via extra accommodation. Wonder what big back shed is for?

I'm forever lurking in the background but rarely have anything original to add to the discussion.
Just wanted to say that that shed has always bugged me. As with the septic system I have to assume police would have double triple checked that nothing sinister lies beneath.
The South Australian case of Jody Meyers is a case in point!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...r-murder-of-missing-woman-jody-meyers/6804018

Your thoughts on the purpose of the shed and the landlords involvement hadn't occurred to me but it is an unusual scenario. Do we know what sort of relationship the POI and the landlord have? Old mates? Another member of the extended family doing BS a favour for whatever reason? Storage provision for more scrap or used goods or hobbies? Maybe it was being built for the landlord to store stuff in?


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[bearbear]

Police excavated the burn-off section of the backyard, and also measured a concrete slab that was laid for a shed currently under construction. A development application for renovation of the house is believed to have been lodged some time last year.
The neighbours' wife, who also did not want to be named, said detectives asked them when the burn-off spot was last used and when the concrete slab in the yard was laid. 'Those were the only two things they were interested in,' she said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Bill-Speddo-Spedding-came-police-radar.html

​

 

[Freddo Frog]

Great to hear that our local Sunshine Coast, Qld. radio stations are advertising the $1 million reward for anyone with information regarding William's disappearance to contact Crimestoppers !!!:...:great:

I have not heard anything in the far northern part of Qld.

 

[bearbear]

an old article.....wondering who gave the tip off to crimestoppers, and why msm chose not to reveal his name and then did, was it strategy? and like someone upthread said, they would need something big to get the search warrant?

One of the names that popped up early in their inquires was that of Bill Spedding; the tradesman had visited William’s grandmother a few days before the toddler’s disappearance to look at her broken washing machine. He was routinely investigated, along with others who’d had contact with the family in the lead-up to William’s disappearance.
It was a frustrating case for the police. They went for months without a breakthrough. Not a single trace of young William had been uncovered. They claim that a tip-off was received through Crime Stoppers. At some point a decision was made to step up the investigation into Spedding, and he was interviewed.

https://www.facebook.com/WilliamTyrellbringbackhome/posts/1539584332967564

 

[purpleandgreen]

Paywalled, dg. Are you able to summarise the main points? Thanks in advance.

Those words come from a commenter to a story published by The Australian, rather than from the news story itself.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...k=e77d40d05fffc3964d1c23cc2e9be654-1476013014

 

[richieswan]

Thats a lot of expenditure by the landlord in the hope of a return on investment. And potentially, right now, the landlord could lose his tenant just as the renovation is finished. More to the point,how well does the landlord know the tenant? I don't know any landlords that have carried out renovations with tenant on request, more so a large back shed that provides no real extra tenant rental increase via extra accommodation. Wonder what big back shed is for?

The applicant's name for the construction is on Council's Development Application Tracker, 2014. Two people are listed on the application. Never heard of them.
10.2014.387.1

 

[crabstick]

Im going to speculate that BS was going to use the shed for reconditioning whitegoods and other activities (similar activities to past activities), and with a night to sleep on it, I think BS may have paid for the shed project himself. But this is still the result of a great relationship with your landlord. Not everyone wants a shed in their rental backyard.

How many of you have a burn off patch in your backyard? What do you use it for?

I'm forever lurking in the background but rarely have anything original to add to the discussion.
Just wanted to say that that shed has always bugged me. As with the septic system I have to assume police would have double triple checked that nothing sinister lies beneath.
The South Australian case of Jody Meyers is a case in point!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...r-murder-of-missing-woman-jody-meyers/6804018

Your thoughts on the purpose of the shed and the landlords involvement hadn't occurred to me but it is an unusual scenario. Do we know what sort of relationship the POI and the landlord have? Old mates? Another member of the extended family doing BS a favour for whatever reason? Storage provision for more scrap or used goods or hobbies? Maybe it was being built for the landlord to store stuff in?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[purpleandgreen]

There is a small article in today's Courier Mail (p15) entitled 'Coroner joins hunt for missing William'. I can't get a link to the particular article, just this:

http://enews.smedia.com.au/thecouriermail/default.aspx?publication=NCCM

Basically it says that the Coroner, Michael Barnes, has been and is working 'closely' with LE but no inquest is planned yet.

 

[frogwell]

deugirtni deugirtni is offline
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In looking for MSM articles where it has been stated that the dogs found no trace of WT PAST the yard, or the driveway, that 'essential baby' article is the only one I could find that said that. A good sampling is listed below. I am therefore inclined to believe that the 'essential baby' article was another case of reporter embellishment, or something other than fact, MOO:

Police have launched a special strike force to help find three-year-old missing boy William Tyrell on the fifth day of the frantic search as it's revealed even police sniffer dogs can't find a trace or scent of the toddler.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-days-ago.html
Hundreds of SES, RFS and local volunteers scoured thick bushland on Tuesday and searched nearby dams and waterways for a second time, but there has been no trace of the boy.

Sniffer dogs and cadaver dogs found no scent in the yard, fuelling fears he may have been abducted.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-wi...16-10hy58.html
Sniffer dogs have also been involved but have not picked up any trace of William.
http://www.news.com.au/national/brea...-1227061187569
Sniffer dogs have failed to pick up any scent of the three-year-old William Tyrell on the NSW mid-north coast, fuelling fears he may not have wandered away from home.

....

Neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs had been able to pick up any sign of the boy, Fehon said.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...re-diminishing
Police Strike Force Rosann has been established as sniffer dogs fail to pick up any scent of William Tyrell, five days after he went missing on the NSW mid north coast.

....

Superintendent Paul Fehon says neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs have been able to pick up any sign of the boy, fuelling fears he may not have wandered away from home.
http://www.nbnnews.com.au/index.php/...illiam-tyrell/
POLICE confirmed sniffer dogs brought in to search around Kendall, near Port Macquarie, for William Tyrell had found no scent trail of the three-year-old.

....

Police sniffer dogs have not been able to determine any sign of the boy.
http://www.news.com.au/national/brea...-1227059837928
Sniffer dogs have failed to pick up any scent of little William Tyrell on the NSW mid-north coast, fuelling fears he may not have wandered away from home.

....

Neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs have been able to pick up any sign of the boy, Supt Fehon said.
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-s...ell-scent.html
Police divers were brought in to search nearby dams and waterways, while sniffer dogs also helped comb the area.

The dogs did not pick up any scent trails to suggest William wandered off.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wil...-1227195803646

Quote Originally Posted by Panda View Post
Well spotted. Quote from the above article, my bolding: "Sniffer dogs found no trace of the boy beyond the yard." I am presuming "Essential Baby" is a media source that would be classified as reasonable. Well, that solves that problem. Unfortunately, we now can only speculate as to whether he was allegedly taken from the driveway, or from the actual road.
Quote Originally Posted by bearbear View Post
but is that msm wording or did police actually give a statement quoting beyond the yard or did they only ever say no trace?
just trying to get the truth of what police have said and msm have said
Last edited by deugirtni; 02-16-2015 at 08:13 PM. Reason: added bolding; deleted a quote from mamama (not allowed apparently)
Thanks

Just wanted to bump this post from thread 5 by deugertni.
I was doing the same research myself on articles that stated the scent in the yard etc. and found that articles in the 1st 10 days of the search, in MSM did not report the qualifying statement, "outside of the yard." First articles, I noticed that statement were in October 2014. thanks D, you had already done all the hard work.MOO

 

[frogwell]

I have linked back to the SMH article that contains the bolded, underlined phrase and that phrase has been changed. Which begs the question, are journalists just cleaning up articles about all the discrepencies they reported at the beginning of this investigation, or is someone regularly bringing it to MSM's journalist attention, that the reporting of the facts at the time was inaccurate? Why clean it up when that was the understanding by many journalists at the time? Surely, the dates on the articles are explanation for changes in reporting on long term issues. MOO

 

[bearbear]

weird if there was originally no scent (anywhere?) reported, surely the mcdonalds visit would have been caught on cctv the day before?

 

[frogwell]

That could *possibly* speak to the possibility again, of the fostering situation being a voluntary one.. and not only that, but perhaps one in which the bio and foster parent(s) have an amicable relationship, with the 2 families possibly making agreements as to visitation arrangements, and perhaps even possible future (open?) adoption plans? Just a thought.. because that would seem to make for somewhat of a complicated family history, at least as far as for reporting purposes in the news, in regard to this whole story. It could also explain why it was said early on that "there is no history of family conflict." (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-wi...31-11fbdi.html

Also, was there talk recently of the possibility of someone perhaps moving overseas? If so, that could cause a kerfuffle in the amicability of such a relationship as above. jmo

There may also be no history of family contact as it's possible the families did not communicate with each other. therefore there is no history of family conflict. MOO

 

[Wexford]

Now DCI Jubelin and BS certainly have a history:

'Not only are Mr Spedding and Hillsley linked by family but they were arrested by the same detective about a decade apart.
Convicted murderer and rapist Jeffrey John Hillsley is related to Bill Spedding, it has emerged in court.

Homicide Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin arrested Mr Spedding on April 23, 2015, more than 10 years after he took Hillsley into custody. Mr Spedding is charged with five counts of sexually abusing two girls, aged three and six, in the 1980s.'

Bill Spedding's ex-brother-in-law a murdering rapist, court told

Yes...I have often wondered....did Jubelin get the job BECAUSE of BS? Because someone said 'get Gary on this job, he knows this guy'. I get that he was high profile with missing kids due to Bowraville. it makes more sense than him being assigned to the job and then suddenly going 'hey I know this guy'.....although of course that could be another example of the unluckiest washing machine repair man in the world.

 

[crabstick]

Frogwell,
I wonder if the police in future could use sniffer dogs to tell if an outsider beyond the prior occupants had been in the yard? In this case eg, a sniffer dog maybe used in reverse of say a current imprisoned POI to see if he had entered the yard. So the presence of the offender or suspected POIs presence by a dog would give some indication a bad guy had been inside the property. Bit late now but for future reference, rather than scent of a boy, given the right environment, dogs could tell if non occupants of the home, or a particular scent had been present on the property.

Rather than dogs sniffing for an occupant, dogs sniff for the presence of the POI potential intruder using a POIs existing clothing????

If the dog picks up the scent, given the right environment, DNA may be present, giving circumstantial weight to a case???

Quote Originally Posted by Panda View Post
Well spotted. Quote from the above article, my bolding: "Sniffer dogs found no trace of the boy beyond the yard." I am presuming "Essential Baby" is a media source that would be classified as reasonable. Well, that solves that problem. Unfortunately, we now can only speculate as to whether he was allegedly taken from the driveway, or from the actual road.
Quote Originally Posted by bearbear View Post
but is that msm wording or did police actually give a statement quoting beyond the yard or did they only ever say no trace?
just trying to get the truth of what police have said and msm have said
Last edited by deugirtni; 02-16-2015 at 08:13 PM. Reason: added bolding; deleted a quote from mamama (not allowed apparently)
Thanks

Just wanted to bump this post from thread 5 by deugertni.
I was doing the same research myself on articles that stated the scent in the yard etc. and found that articles in the 1st 10 days of the search, in MSM did not report the qualifying statement, "outside of the yard." First articles, I noticed that statement were in October 2014. thanks D, you had already done all the hard work.MOO

Given the intel of the Jubelin team, and the modern day system technology. Intel must be mind boggling regarding criminal network information. Interesting a potential paedophile network could exist in a poor reception data area.

Yes...I have often wondered....did Jubelin get the job BECAUSE of BS? Because someone said 'get Gary on this job, he knows this guy'. I get that he was high profile with missing kids due to Bowraville. it makes more sense than him being assigned to the job and then suddenly going 'hey I know this guy'.....although of course that could be another example of the unluckiest washing machine repair man in the world.

 

[crabstick]

Frogwell,

The weird thing is, the sniffer dog scent should exist in the backyard, so I'm wondering how distorted media reporting is? Im sure I read scent stopped at the backyard?

To add further, the surrounding terrain was full of sharp native flora that in some cases ripped searchers clothing. That is not conducive to a child moving fast if they ventured into surrounding bush. The poor fella would be scratched to buggery venturing in any of the surrounding native vegetation.