Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #33

[JLZ]

O/T

Oliver Yang, 12, taken from the Gold Coast yesterday. Police are seeking urgent assistance.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...udgeeraba-11-May-2018&p=14104280#post14104280

Oliver Yang found safe in Grafton, 53-year-old man helping police with inquiries. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-12/abducted-gold-coast-boy-found-in-northern-nsw/9754724

Edit: Ah, I see you folks have it thoroughly covered, but I'll leave this in case anyone else is off the pace today.

 

[Bohemian]

There's got to be a Paul or two between Benaroon and Ellendale. I think we know of one. Jones could have been heading to see someone local, picked up William instead because he was there, and afterwards given the impression that he meant Bickford so as to distance himself from the area. . . . I don't know. Just rambling thoughts.

That second link was very interesting, Bo.

Anything’s possible at this stage, JLZ.

The link was interesting reading. I’ve read others in a similar vein.

 

[Warshawski]

At the risk of being pedantic (sorry) ... the term 'not guilty' is what the term would be. Because I really cannot imagine two girls putting themselves through the rigor and stress of a historical child sex trial(s) if there wasn't good grounds and evidence for the prosecution of such charges.

I agree SA. I feel so much for these Girls / now Women. Victims of abuse will know the impact this will have had on their lives, every day ... IMO it was a massively brave step to speak up now, and it would not have got to trial if there was not the evidence to support the prosecution.

I find it interesting that there was no reporting. Is this because of the 'type of trial' even though the victims are now adults ? And the suggested perpretrator is also given total anonaminity! Why is that ? It doesn't seem fair.
Others have their identity & the whole proceedings reported on.
Was BS trial before a jury, or judge only?

 

[JLZ]

Anything’s possible at this stage, JLZ.

The link was interesting reading. I’ve read others in a similar vein.

A couple of things I thought were particularly interesting.

Who abducted-and-killed children age 1-5. In the case of girls in that age range abducted and murdered, 64% were by a "friend"/acquaintance, 28% by a stranger, 8% by a family member or intimate. But in the case of boys in that age range abducted and murdered, 64% were by a stranger, 27% by friend/acquaintance, and 9% by family/intimate.

And also, although 13% of all murderers of children are female, in the case of incidents comprising both abduction and murder, 98.5% of perpetrators were males.

 

[Josie2014]

I agree with Jennifer about Ross River Fever. Everything I have read says a person is fully recovered after 6 months, a few people may take one to two years to recover. A few people claim they have ongoing depression and fatigue. Certainly nothing that would inhibit a person from abducting a little 3 year old (or working a repair business, helping care for 3 young grandchildren, going to footy practise, swimming).

(eg: http://healthywa.wa.gov.au/Articles/N_R/Ross-River-virus-and-Barmah-Forest-virus or http://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/w...-+including+symptoms+treatment+and+prevention)


As far as age goes, it is interesting to note the ages of all 3 named POIs ... evidently the police do not agree with your theory. And they are the ones that are using profilers, psychologists, investigators, and the full facts.

Anthony Jones, around 60 years old (at the time) http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...d/news-story/d9ec79b9a306ce05f01558790c3b5fc4

Paul Bickford, around 68 years old (at the time) https://seventhvoice.wordpress.com/...y-abusing-young-girl-with-aspergers-syndrome/

Bill Spedding, around 63 years old (at the time) https://www.smh.com.au/national/wil...sex-offences-in-victoria-20160727-gqf0wo.html

.

Derek Nichols was around 80 years old at the time http://www.themercury.com.au/news/s...t/news-story/6d92824741419afda73880618064b03d

Three of these POI's (AJ, PB and DN) came to the attention of investigators as they were RSO's living in the area and as such were investigated along with all other RSO's in the area until they were or are ruled out.

Police investigate every lead and tip off received whether it fits with what profilers, psychologists, investigators and the full facts indicate or not. I wouldn't assume to know what investigators agree or don't agree with.

The link provided by Bo confirms my thoughts on child abduction murderers as do other research papers. Thank you for the link Bo. None of the above POI's are an exact fit, but of course they were investigated as they came to the attention of TFR for one reason or another.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf

 

[Josie2014]

In the HuffPost article I posted earlier:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...l-NSW-12-Sept-2014-33&p=14102548#post14102548

One of the referenced articles, ‘Investigative Case Management for Missing Children Homicides’ described the characteristics of the perpetrators of these crimes (pp. 13-25):

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf

Thank you for these informative links Bo. Very interesting reading. I wonder if one or more of the people in the vicinity are a close match to the criteria's described in the 2nd link?

 

[SouthAussie]

For those people who do not wish to read that very long (US) report .... there is not one category in the report that excludes Spedding or the other POIs from this crime.

- Age Group Distribution >40 = 9%
- 15 percent are married at the time of the murder
- 50% are employed (as 50 percent were unemployed at the time they committed the crime)
- Occupations - Service Industry 5%
- Living Arrangements - Spouse &/or Children 15%
- Perceived Lifestyle - Friendly To Children 21%
- Personal Problems - Child Abduction/All Murderers … Sexual Problems 42%/3%, Mental Problems 23%/13%
- Prior Crimes Against Children - Sexual Assault (Non-Rape) 45%, Rape (or attempt) 31%, Assault 15%
- Custody Status - the majority of them are ostensibly free of legal controls when they commit the murder
- M.O. Similarities Between Other Crimes - Victim Characteristics 28%, Specific Acts 17%
- 69 percent of the cases involve a sexual motive
- How Chose His Victim - Victim of Opportunity 57%


I haven't listed every category - but I have listed almost all of them, just missed the last few as the post was getting too long, but you can check them at the link - and the POIs fit into all categories.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf

 

[JLZ]

It's not about exclusion, SA. This is data from a sample; it gives an idea of probabilities; it can't render anything happening outside the sample impossible. I don't think the article was put forward polemically, as an argument against Spedding's involvement. I'd say he's a less typical fit than a young man living with his parents a short distance from GM's house. But a lot of life happens untypically.

 

[SouthAussie]

It's not about exclusion, SA. This is data from a sample; it gives an idea of probabilities; it can't render anything happening outside the sample impossible. I don't think the article was put forward polemically, as an argument against Spedding's involvement. I'd say he's a less typical fit than a young man living with his parents a short distance from GM's house. But a lot of life happens untypically.

Yes, I understand that, as many of us do. I am not sure that train of thought applies to all people.

A once in a decade crime, I would think, is not necessarily carried out by the most typical example of perpetrator.

 

[shultz]

I'm coming in late on this one, but is anyone considering the mum? She's potentially on drugs, had William taken off her by the department and potentially is not the most law abiding citizen. The circumstances of the abduction suggest someone who knew the grandmother's home quite well and who could have planned such a lighting snatch. What about the child's father?

 

[sleepinoz]

I'm coming in late on this one, but is anyone considering the mum? She's potentially on drugs, had William taken off her by the department and potentially is not the most law abiding citizen. The circumstances of the abduction suggest someone who knew the grandmother's home quite well and who could have planned such a lighting snatch. What about the child's father?

The Biological Parents have been cleared by the Police, and I really doubt that either of them would know the Foster Grandmothers home at all.

 

[Violet77]

I'm coming in late on this one, but is anyone considering the mum? She's potentially on drugs, had William taken off her by the department and potentially is not the most law abiding citizen. The circumstances of the abduction suggest someone who knew the grandmother's home quite well and who could have planned such a lighting snatch. What about the child's father?

I very much doubt the bios knew much about the FF’s place of residence, much less the FG’s house, hours away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sosocurious]

Her second child, William, was born on Tyrrell’s 23rd birthday — June 26, 2011.
When William was born, Tyrrell was living with his father, Brendan Collins, as well as her first child, a daughter.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rel...52488d9b660a3b

Is this correct?

 

[sleepinoz]

Her second child, William, was born on Tyrrell’s 23rd birthday — June 26, 2011.
When William was born, Tyrrell was living with his father, Brendan Collins, as well as her first child, a daughter.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rel...52488d9b660a3b

Is this correct?

No it's not.

Court Doc's:

Julian’s sister, who is a year older than Julian and whom I shall call Sarah, had been removed from her mother’s care before Julian was born

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/58853ecfe4b058596cba36a9

 

[Bohemian]

A couple of things I thought were particularly interesting.

Who abducted-and-killed children age 1-5. In the case of girls in that age range abducted and murdered, 64% were by a "friend"/acquaintance, 28% by a stranger, 8% by a family member or intimate. But in the case of boys in that age range abducted and murdered, 64% were by a stranger, 27% by friend/acquaintance, and 9% by family/intimate.

And also, although 13% of all murderers of children are female, in the case of incidents comprising both abduction and murder, 98.5% of perpetrators were males.

Thank you for these informative links Bo. Very interesting reading. I wonder if one or more of the people in the vicinity are a close match to the criteria's described in the 2nd link?

I’m glad you both find this research informative and interesting. Unfortunately, any discussion seems to have little chance of progressing if it there is a minute possibility that it may even remotely infer that someone other than BS is guilty of William’s abduction and murder.

 

[sleepinoz]

I’m glad you both find this research informative and interesting. Unfortunately, any discussion seems to have little chance of progressing if it there is a minute possibility that it may even remotely infer that someone other than BS is guilty of William’s abduction and murder.

Do you mean that nobody is willing to discuss anything other than BS being guilty? If so, I don't agree at all.

 

[Jennifer17]

Although I have suspicions about Spedding, I am not absolutely convinced that he abducted William. There are too many players here.

 

[Hbayne]

Although I have suspicions about Spedding, I am not absolutely convinced that he abducted William. There are too many players here.

Yes I agree Jen, I go back and forth with my thoughts

 

[SouthAussie]

Although I have suspicions about Spedding, I am not absolutely convinced that he abducted William. There are too many players here.

I don't think any of us can be 100% sure of anything. All we can go by is what we have been told in MSM. The mitigating factors and police actions, making it a high possibility/probability.

I would think there are or have been others on the radar that we know absolutely nothing about. They haven't been named and we have heard nothing else about them.

There are other scenarios that are possible, to my way of thinking. Scenarios we have spoken of many threads ago. Involving others who live/d right on the street - as I do think this was random and opportunistic. We don't know if everyone on the street has been cleared. Just that William was not found during multiple searches of the residences there.

I know I have mentioned more than several times in the past how much this piece of info bothered me ....


There were more than 20 people on the child protection register in the area directly surrounding the Kendall home of William Tyrrell’s grandmother.
Police spoke to all of them but not all have had their homes searched.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...l/news-story/54b9aa517f8c8dc6a9edac8bf2255b48
January 2, 2016

 

[Blues Clues]

There were more than 20 people on the child protection register in the area directly surrounding the Kendall home of William Tyrrell’s grandmother.
Police spoke to all of them but not all have had their homes searched.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law...edac8bf2255b48
January 2, 2016

I've seen this wording misconstrued by many people (not here on WS) and understandably so as it is not clear. It could be taken as all 20 people lived in the Benaroon Dr neighbourhood which is not correct at all. They live in the Kendall area which takes in towns and communities within half an hr drive of Kendall.

Another Herald report;

Police have also looked up known child sex offenders within a massive radius of Kendall with nothing to grab at.
https://www.theherald.com.au/story/2663210/william-tyrell-how-a-boy-vanished-into-thin-air/

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“There is nothingthat we haven’t looked at,” Supt. Fehon said.
“We’ve had cameras down the pipes, we’ve had cameras in the septic tanks, we’ve been inthe homes in this small estate numerous times and searched every possible location but still no sign of anything.”
The sex crimes squad has now been verifying the whereabouts of known sex offenders in the region.
Read more athttp://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/09/24/20/50/five-short-minutes-and-william-vanished#OySWhCSqplWSjh1j.99


This is a piece of information I keep returning to. Who reported this and were they being truthful or creating a scenario to steer suspicion in a different or certain direction?

"We also have reports of a four-wheel-drive leaving Benaroon Drive around the time that William disappeared.
"He said investigators were interested in any information regarding a four-wheel-drive in the area due to independent information received.​

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...sed-in-search-for-3yo-william-tyrrell/6753948

Edit; Sorry I don't know why this is all bold, can't seem to remove it? Still learning how to use WS forum :blushing:

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