Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #37

[CuriousCritter]

Oh, I think the old metal scrapper would know, how to make a VIN disappear.

Yeah true, but why wouldn't he then go and cash it in with all his other scrap, to get crushed and then not be able to be found ever again

 

[Blues Clues]

One thing is for sure, that car was not seen near the Batar Creek Rd/Cedar Loggers Lane area recently.

 

[SouthAussie]

One thing is for sure, that car was not seen near the Batar Creek Rd/Cedar Loggers Lane area recently.

Funny though, I was looking at the route to the car dumping site (what I think may be the site, anyway), and it is about the correct time-distance away from Kendall, as stated in MSM.

I believe I read that it was about 12 mins away? About 7 mins from Benaroon Drive to Cedar Loggers Lane, then about 7 mins down Stoney Creek Rd (from Cedar Loggers Lane) to the dump site. Perhaps shave off a couple of mins due to Google inaccuracy, or faster driving by whoever timed the distance, or maybe it wasn't timed from exactly Benaroon Drive.

I just thought that it was a bit of a coincidence. Being in that general area. With maybe the police sealing off the road from Cedar Loggers Lane, while they were conducting their search in that area. So no-one could see exactly where they were searching.

I can't tell if it is a bit of a convulated way to go to get to the dumping site though, with not knowing the condition of the roads around there. Some of them look more like tracks or dirt roads.

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh, I think the old metal scrapper would know, how to make a VIN disappear.

Yeah true, but why wouldn't he then go and cash it in with all his other scrap, to get crushed and then not be able to be found ever again

I don't think a person can scrap a vehicle without a VIN number.

Legally, car scrapping companies cannot trade vehicles that are unidentified. This is to help combat car theft trade
Latest Car Scrap Laws | CarTakeBack Blog


When buying scrap metal, a dealer is required to record for each item:

• if it is a motor vehicle, its vehicle identifier

New scrap metal laws
(This link is Vic law though, not NSW)

 

[JLZ]

Funny though, I was looking at the route to the car dumping site (what I think may be the site, anyway), and it is about the correct time-distance away from Kendall, as stated in MSM.

I believe I read that it was about 12 mins away? About 7 mins from Benaroon Drive to Cedar Loggers Lane, 7 mins down Stoney Creek Rd to the site. Perhaps shave off a couple of mins due to Google inaccuracy, or faster driving by whoever timed the distance, or maybe it wasn't timed from exactly Benaroon Drive.

I just thought that it was a bit of a coincidence. Being in that general area. With maybe the police sealing off the road from Cedar Loggers Lane, while they were conducting their search in that area. So no-one could see exactly where they were searching.

I measure 5km from Benaroon to the quarry. For that to be 12 minutes, it's an average speed of 25km/hr. Even allowing that 2km are difficult bush track, seems too slow? I wonder if we should be looking for a site a bit further away.

I don't think I'm following you about Cedar Loggers Lane. I know there was searching there.

 

[SouthAussie]

I measure 5km from Benaroon to the quarry. For that to be 12 minutes, it's an average speed of 25km/hr. Even allowing that 2km are difficult bush track, seems too slow? I wonder if we should be looking for a site a bit further away.

I don't think I'm following you about Cedar Loggers Lane. I know there was searching there.

Cedar Loggers Lane leads onto Stoney Creek Road, and the dumpsite I have been looking at is along Stoney Creek Road.

Sorry, I didn't explain that very well. Tried to show it in the map pics I attached, because I knew I wasn't explaining very clearly. I will try to edit the post a bit, to make it clearer (I hope ).

 

[JLZ]

Cedar Loggers Lane leads onto Stoney Creek Road, and the dumpsite I have been looking at is along Stoney Creek Road.

Sorry, I didn't explain that very well. Tried to show it in the map pics I attached, because I knew I wasn't explaining very clearly. I will try to edit the post a bit, to make it clearer (I hope ).

As I see it, if someone was coming from Benaroon Drive down Batar Creek Road, they'd turn down Stoney Creek Road before they got to Cedar Loggers Lane, which runs off Batar Creek Road a bit further down. Or were you thinking of someone coming from Cedar Loggers Lane, up Batar Creek Drive to Stoney Creek Road?

When I said "quarry"*, maybe that's not the right word, but I think we're looking at the same dump site going by your maps. It's not the place you showed earlier with the cars lined up? I couldn't find where that was.

*I think it's what Iailwa called the gravel pit. There are also two quarries in Middle Brother, but they both look canopied over with trees--I can't see any open ground.

 

[SouthAussie]

As I see it, if someone was coming from Benaroon Drive down Batar Creek Road, they'd turn down Stoney Creek Road before they got to Cedar Loggers Lane, which runs off Batar Creek Road a bit further down. Or were you thinking of someone coming from Cedar Loggers Lane, up Batar Creek Drive to Stoney Creek Road?

When I said "quarry"*, maybe that's not the right word, but I think we're looking at the same dump site going by your maps. It's not the place you showed earlier with the cars lined up? I couldn't find where that was.

*I think it's what Iailwa called the gravel pit. There are also two quarries in Middle Brother, but they both look canopied over with trees--I can't see any open ground.

I guess I was thinking about him picking up a person to drive him back from dumping the car. Perhaps a person around Cedar Loggers Lane? Or a large woman seen on Batar Creek Road (maybe near Cedar Loggers Lane) acting suspiciously?

The cleared area with the cars was a place a bit further down Stoney Creek Road.
There is another cleared area a bit closer than that on Stoney Creek Road. I didn't post pics of that one as it looked completely void of cars and or bits and pieces, from what I could see.
The pics I showed were dated 2014 and 2016. Nothing available in sat view later than that.
I think I might have measured the map to the first site not the 2nd car-ridden site. Not sure, and a bit tired to go back and look at right now.

I think where the car on ACA was shown looked pretty clear of canopied trees.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I guess I was thinking about him picking up a person to drive him back from dumping the car. Perhaps a person around Cedar Loggers Lane? Or a large woman seen on Batar Creek Road (maybe near Cedar Loggers Lane) acting suspiciously?

Maybe this. Who knows ....

 

[Wexford]

Would you set a car alight and then flip it? Surely the car would be flipped first and then set alight. It would be nearly impossible to flip it while it was still burning? I googled burning a car and came up with a plethora of information on how to do it and then decided I really didn't want all that in my search history. It's probably not relevant but I would have thought to return and burn out a car that you would want to do it quickly. Not stuff around with flipping. Does that serve some purpose do you think?

 

[SouthAussie]

Would you set a car alight and then flip it? Surely the car would be flipped first and then set alight. It would be nearly impossible to flip it while it was still burning? I googled burning a car and came up with a plethora of information on how to do it and then decided I really didn't want all that in my search history. It's probably not relevant but I would have thought to return and burn out a car that you would want to do it quickly. Not stuff around with flipping. Does that serve some purpose do you think?

Revising my first response to this post because I just had another thought.

They may think it was flipped afterwards, due to the unburned rope tied to the car - perhaps it was used to aid the flipping of the car.

Could the car have been flipped to give the impression it flipped and burned during a hooning rollover accident? Except they forgot to take the rope off, or couldn't get it off.

Seems to me that it would take more than one person to flip a car though?

(My first response said that maybe it was flipped first and a fire was started on the interior roof to burn the seats and interior more efficiently/effectively, if it is hard to set the seats alight. Then I thought about the unburned rope.)

 

[iailwa]

Here's a screen shot of stoney creek rd (in red until it reaches the large clearing). There's 2 cleared areas (one to left of the road - i.e. right of the screen) which SA showed yesterday (where it looked like several cars were lined up), and the larger one is at the end of the red line (old council gravel pit) although stoney creek rd passes by further. I'm not sure what the clearing is on left of the screen? These could be where they were looking, given the time frame of 12 mins?

 

[papertrail]

The coroner's legal powers mean witnesses could be forced to explain their movements and what they know about William's disappearance - unlike conventional police interviews.

In a police interview the interviewee can choose to remain silent. You cannot choose to remain silent at an inquest or court whilst under oath.

The only way you can remain silent is by the use of prospect of self incrimination.



The rock and hard place not available to investigators in interview process.

 

[papertrail]

Revising my first response to this post because I just had another thought.

They may think it was flipped afterwards, due to the unburned rope tied to the car - perhaps it was used to aid the flipping of the car.

Could the car have been flipped to give the impression it flipped and burned during a hooning rollover accident? Except they forgot to take the rope off, or couldn't get it off.

Seems to me that it would take more than one person to flip a car though?

A possibility is that the vehicle that was 1st allegedly witnessed is not the rusted and alleged burnt vehicle. A swap over of same or similar make and model had occurred.

Had there been a fire callout to this area?

How did the 'witness' know the vehicle in its initial entirity was there in the 1st place? Obviously a mate of TJ?

 

[Wexford]

Revising my first response to this post because I just had another thought.

They may think it was flipped afterwards, due to the unburned rope tied to the car - perhaps it was used to aid the flipping of the car.

Could the car have been flipped to give the impression it flipped and burned during a hooning rollover accident? Except they forgot to take the rope off, or couldn't get it off.

Seems to me that it would take more than one person to flip a car though?

(My first response said that maybe it was flipped first and a fire was started on the interior roof to burn the seats and interior more efficiently/effectively, if it is hard to set the seats alight. Then I thought about the unburned rope.)

BBM
But you would think that would involve returning once again to the scene to achieve. I doubt you could tie a rope on and flip a car if it was still burning and would you stick around if it was anyway? I just think if that was the case there must have been some dire reason to return again and go to the trouble of flipping it over. I cant see someone going to that amount of trouble just for fun.

 

[papertrail]

Here's a screen shot of stoney creek rd (in red until it reaches the large clearing). There's 2 cleared areas (one to left of the road - i.e. right of the screen) which SA showed yesterday (where it looked like several cars were lined up), and the larger one is at the end of the red line (old council gravel pit) although stoney creek rd passes by further. I'm not sure what the clearing is on left of the screen? These could be where they were looking, given the time frame of 12 mins?

Dont consider they are cars lined up more likely logs from logging operation.

 

[SouthAussie]

Here's a screen shot of stoney creek rd (in red until it reaches the large clearing). There's 2 cleared areas (one to left of the road - i.e. right of the screen) which SA showed yesterday (where it looked like several cars were lined up), and the larger one is at the end of the red line (old council gravel pit) although stoney creek rd passes by further. I'm not sure what the clearing is on left of the screen? These could be where they were looking, given the time frame of 12 mins?

Just editing my post because I am a ning-nong. It is the one on the left that I posted pics of before.

 

[iailwa]

There's a few things i don't understand here, if anyone can help out.

When ACA went to look at the car it was flipped and burned out, but it wasn't previously. Is it possible AJ went back there after he was out of jail? Better late than never. The police could have checked it out prior in situ?

Was TJ's relative wearing the same thing as in the older clip from ACA? She looked the same, in the same possies, same hair, but i can't remember the clothes. Will have to go back & check, can't just yet. Maybe ACA filmed a lot of this back then & left it for the anniversary?

Would ACA have to tell police that this was their plan? I imagine they would but I'm just imagining, and then police would say yes/no? Why did they say yes, if this the case.... would they let them put just *advertiser censored* out there when it's going to the public? Maybe they would

 

[papertrail]

Maybe enough evidence against someone. That is how they got Brett Cowan.

They got Brett Cowan in sting op where he 1st made clear admissions and took sting participants to the murder scene and remains recovery.

All available on youtube.

 

[iailwa]

Actually, the one on the right is the one I posted pics of with cars in it (just wanted to state that for accuracy).

Then I thought it was the one on the left when I mapped out the drive, and included Loggers Creek Lane in the drive, because the timing seemed closer.

It only takes 9 mins to get to the one on the right, where the cars were (if they were cars). And a fair bit longer than 12 mins if I include Loggers Creek Lane in that equation.

(Hope this makes sense, it is very hard to explain clearly.)

Do you mean left of screen?