Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #42

[JLZ]

I just know with my work, we have the protection of a union..if we were accused or charged in any way relating to a work matter, we have protection of the union organising and paying for legal representation.
Do carers with FaCS or the OOHC agency have anything like that?

I can't say, but I think Gail Furness trumps Michael Fordham--she's been practising longer, has been an SC longer, and has a very impressive CV. If FaCS was going to pay for two sets of legal representatives, wouldn't it reserve the best one for itself?

 

[JLZ]

I just know with my work, we have the protection of a union..if we were accused or charged in any way relating to a work matter, we have protection of the union organising and paying for legal representation.
Do carers with FaCS or the OOHC agency have anything like that?

Also, FCs aren't "accused or charged in any way" and don't appear to be at risk of that at all.

 

[Ms Cadfael]

I don't think they could, one lawyer/barrister/solicitor can only represent one person/organisation AFAIK.

But is there "protection" for carers to be legally represented in case of allegations, charges etc, stemming from being a carer?
Not that it matters...just a pretty scary dice game when you are trying your best, an incident or allegation arises and "bang", you're on your own to cover legal costs, which can be astronomical!
Children's guardian for the children
FaCS would have their legal eagles..
Are carers forced to go legal Aid (which is near impossible to be eligible for) or pay out of their own pocket?
Wow, scary thought. You'd wanna have deep pockets!

 

[Ms Cadfael]

Also, FCs aren't "accused or charged in any way" and don't appear to be at risk of that at all.

I didn't mean it that way... just as an example that something could happen when being a foster carer. what protections would you have?

 

[JLZ]

I didn't mean it that way... just as an example that something could happen when being a foster carer. what protections would you have?

As I said, I don't know, but consider the situation of anyone facing unfounded charges and not qualifying for Legal Aid. Foster carers aren't uniquely vulnerable.

 

[CuriousCritter]

I've just noticed that FCs have Gail Furness SC as their barrister, plus another barrister. That is seriously lawyering up, much more so than BS who has his solicitor, and more than PS, who has a barrister briefed by a solicitor. I conjecture that it is the GJ and internal political situation with police that has influenced FCs to make that choice, which otherwise looks like overkill, notwithstanding that their child is missing. Because the whole purpose of the inquest is to find out what happened to William--it's on their side.

Maybe 1 is representing FFC and the other representing MFC

 

[JLZ]

Maybe 1 is representing FFC and the other representing MFC

That occurred to me, but I think it's more likely that the "junior" barrister is acting as assistant to the SC.

 

[JLZ]

I agree with what everything you've said about the FP's. Surely they empathised with the BP's before the abduction. It's a strange inclusion in the podcast, I would have left it out, it made me feel icky. And on second listen, they are the words of the reporters not the FP's so the odd wording is nothing to do with them.

I do tend to feel icky when someone says they know how another person feels. They can imagine as sensitively as they're able, but they don't really know, and to say that they do . . . it's almost dismissive of the other person's reality.

 

[sleepinoz]

10 News First on Twitter

10 News First‏Verified account @10NewsFirst


William Tyrrell's foster parents have sensationally slammed police claiming the homicide investigation has been derailed by internal politics within the force. | @LiaJHarris Listen to the true-crime podcast #WheresWilliamTyrrell? → https://aca.st/9e74f6


Video at Link

 

[purpleandgreen]

I bet they don't get Legal Aid either, must be costing a pretty penny.

Shows how dedicated they are to finding the truth. IMO

 

[purpleandgreen]

Would they be entitled to have legal rep provided by FaCS, seeing as though they were "employed" as carers? Would it be in FaCS best interests to have them represented, so as not to spill beans or say the wrong thing, or would that be a conflict of interest?

I’m curious as to what beans they might spill?

 

[2cents2]

I've just noticed that FCs have Gail Furness SC as their barrister, plus another barrister. That is seriously lawyering up, much more so than BS who has his solicitor, and more than PS, who has a barrister briefed by a solicitor. I conjecture that it is the GJ and internal political situation with police that has influenced FCs to make that choice, which otherwise looks like overkill, notwithstanding that their child is missing. Because the whole purpose of the inquest is to find out what happened to William--it's on their side.

If they didn't get Legal Aid or support from FaCS, maybe they are using some of the funds that have been donated?

They are very transparent (which is great) about the donations they have received through the Where’s William website in their latest media release:

11/6/2015 — 7/12/2018 DONATIONS: $183,248.00

26/6/2015 — 7/12/2018 EXPENSES: $141,061.00

8/12/2018 — BALANCE: $42,187

Which I don’t think would be enough to cover costs, but it would get them a little on their way.

But then, there is this at the end of the page which I think backs up, in some way, what you’re saying about them lawyering up post-Jubelin:


“CHANGES TO WHERE’S WILLIAM? CAMPAIGN FUNDRAISING ACTIVITIES

When William’s disappearance was referred to the NSW State Coroner, those behind the campaign felt there would be no further need to raise funds to cover campaign expenses. As a result, on 14 January 2019, the donate button was removed from William’s website. However, following the recent changes to the police investigation in May 2019, the donate button was reintroduced to William’s website. The balance of funds held by our former charity partner was transferred to our new charity partner, the Daniel Morcombe Foundation”

Ref: MEDIA RELEASE: 13 July 2019, Where’s William? Campaign Welcomes Support from Daniel Morcombe Foundation www.whereswilliam.org/newsroom

 

[sleepinoz]

If they didn't get Legal Aid or support from FaCS, maybe they are using some of the funds that have been donated?

They are very transparent (which is great) about the donations they have received through the Where’s William website in their latest media release:

11/6/2015 — 7/12/2018 DONATIONS: $183,248.00

26/6/2015 — 7/12/2018 EXPENSES: $141,061.00

8/12/2018 — BALANCE: $42,187

Which I don’t think would be enough to cover costs, but it would get them a little on their way.

But then, there is this at the end of the page which I think backs up, in some way, what you’re saying about them lawyering up post-Jubelin:


“CHANGES TO WHERE’S WILLIAM? CAMPAIGN FUNDRAISING ACTIVITIES

When William’s disappearance was referred to the NSW State Coroner, those behind the campaign felt there would be no further need to raise funds to cover campaign expenses. As a result, on 14 January 2019, the donate button was removed from William’s website. However, following the recent changes to the police investigation in May 2019, the donate button was reintroduced to William’s website. The balance of funds held by our former charity partner was transferred to our new charity partner, the Daniel Morcombe Foundation”

Ref: MEDIA RELEASE: 13 July 2019, Where’s William? Campaign Welcomes Support from Daniel Morcombe Foundation www.whereswilliam.org/newsroom

I very much doubt they can or would use that money. They seem determined to find William and this is their avenue to do it. Beside that, the Morcombes have the money.

They actually didn't 'lawyer up post Jubelin", they had their legal rep at the Directions Hearing in Dec 18. Jubelin wasn't taken off the case until March 19, so not related at all.

Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin, who commanded dozens of officers on Strikeforce Roseann for four years, was taken off the Tyrrell case in March while he was investigated over allegations of misconduct.

High profile NSW police detective Gary Jubelin resigns during misconduct investigations

William’s foster parents, who cannot be identified, sat with Chief Inspector Jubelin in court and were represented by high-profile barrister Gail Furness.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-tyrrell-s-disappearance-20181219-p50n5m.html

 

[JLZ]

(snipping)

I very much doubt they can or would use that money.

I agree.

They actually didn't 'lawyer up post Jubelin", they had their legal rep at the Directions Hearing in Dec 18. Jubelin wasn't taken off the case until March 19, so not related at all.

Good point, though I wonder how long the situation was in the wind before March. I imagine Jubelin was aware that it was blowing up. While I don't suppose he unburdened himself to 'his families', perhaps some of them caught on.

 

[they'll get you]

I very much doubt they can or would use that money. They seem determined to find William and this is their avenue to do it. Beside that, the Morcombes have the money.

They actually didn't 'lawyer up post Jubelin", they had their legal rep at the Directions Hearing in Dec 18. Jubelin wasn't taken off the case until March 19, so not related at all.

Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin, who commanded dozens of officers on Strikeforce Roseann for four years, was taken off the Tyrrell case in March while he was investigated over allegations of misconduct.

High profile NSW police detective Gary Jubelin resigns during misconduct investigations

William’s foster parents, who cannot be identified, sat with Chief Inspector Jubelin in court and were represented by high-profile barrister Gail Furness.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-tyrrell-s-disappearance-20181219-p50n5m.html

July 16, 2019
Golden Casket has today revealed that they will be donating $300,000 worth of unclaimed prize money to Queensland’s Daniel Morcombe Foundation.

The funds will be used to expand the reach of the Foundation’s child safety education programs and events, assistance to victims of crime, and support for the families of missing persons.

Foundation co-founder Bruce Morcombe says he is “over the moon” with the generous donation.

Golden Casket donates ‘unclaimed prize money’ to Daniel Morcombe Foundation – myGC.com.au

 

[sleepinoz]

(snipping)

I agree.

Good point, though I wonder how long the situation was in the wind before March. I imagine Jubelin was aware that it was blowing up. While I don't suppose he unburdened himself to 'his families', perhaps some of them caught on.

I imagine Jubelin had some sort of idea after having to go through conflict resolution with Lambert after their altercation, I also doubt that he informed 'his families'.

The timing is very interesting though, he was sidelined in March, the inquest began in March - the conflict, although not the only reason for his sidelining, was midway through 2018. I believe that to be the starting point even though it seems no formal charges were laid at that point.

William Tyrrell clash: Lead detectives 'come to blows' during meeting about missing toddler | Daily Mail Online

 

[stormbird]

Something strange from the "Nowhere Child: Missing William Tyrrell" podcast, episode 1:

(22:57)
Caroline Overington: "We don't know what evidence was lost as cars freely came and went in those early days. Some of those cars - an Isuzu ute, for example, grey in colour, with a canopy - were caught on the CCTV near the Kendall Tennis Club." (BBM.)

No explanation was given in the podcast for describing a specific vehicle. I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere else before.

 

[sosocurious]

Something strange from the "Nowhere Child: Missing William Tyrrell" podcast, episode 1:

(22:57)
Caroline Overington: "We don't know what evidence was lost as cars freely came and went in those early days. Some of those cars - an Isuzu ute, for example, grey in colour, with a canopy - were caught on the CCTV near the Kendall Tennis Club." (BBM.)

No explanation was given in the podcast for describing a specific vehicle. I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere else before.

Yes I wondered if that may have been directed at somebody.

 

[sosocurious]

The front door opens: “Sorry everything’s so *advertiser censored*.” That’s William Tyrrell’s grandmother speaking. She’s laughing as she says it, because what she means is, her son, who is William’s father, has been painting the house.

It had been a faded yellow. But now it’s turning bright white, and that has made her happy, although it’s not really to do with the paint.

“Do you think it means he’s getting better?” she whispers.................................


William’s story starts 10 years ago, when his father met a girl. In 2010, they had a daughter. Three months later, that child — a girl called Lindsay in court documents — was taken into state care. What was the issue?

Violence. It wasn’t directed at the child. Lindsay’s mother went to a party. It got out of hand. Police got called. She spat at police. She was aggressive. She has mental health problems, and is addicted to drugs. She lashed out, in a way that made officers feel unsafe.

They decided Lindsay was “at risk of harm” — that’s a formal categorisation — and handed her to the NSW Department of Family and Community Services ...........


The mother got pregnant again, this time with William. He was born on June 26, 2011, and when he was nine months old the department came for him too. The couple had told police they were fighting all the time and taking drugs. FACS told them they shouldn’t live together. The relationship was too volatile. If they kept up with the romance — and truly, they were like magnets, unable to stop screaming at each other, and being together — they were at risk of losing their son.
They stayed together. They lost their son.
William’s father didn’t give up so easily this time. He took off with him, hiding out in a granny flat for close to seven weeks. It was a crazy thing to do, and he explains his reasoning like it’s the most obvious thing in the world: “I didn’t want them to take William. He was my son.”
Police tracked the family down. William’s father was arrested, and William went into foster care..............................................

NoCookies | The Australian
Nowhere Child podcast: walls are changing, but William Tyrrell’s memory won’t fade

 

[Warshawski]

Is that the "well dressed" man, who asked for Benaroon Drive? Jeans and t-shirt is very okay to me, but would you describe the clothing as "well dressed"?

I'm suggesting this stuff may be 'in the eye of the beholder' ...