Warshawski
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IMO possibly only relevant in so far as ‘what’s truth’ / from wh9m etc, and also perhaps, what’s responsible for the animosity ?
Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55
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Warshawski
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You’ve done it awesomely
BBM: Yes I've noticed that re-reading my notes
Thanks Blue Clues, it's not easy & alot I have trouble reading my own scribbling
It's amazing how mentally drained you get from hearing all this & reading all my notes brings it all back as there is soooooooo much to remember & by putting it on here, something might just stand out to someone that I have missed.
The last Tranche was very hard going for alot of reasons. I was just so drained each day & didn't post much........sorry
I'll never make a journalist
thank you
SouthAussie
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One would hope that he has been at the inquest behind closed doors.
He was discounted SO very quickly, but might be able to reveal WHO was at his house that morning (if anyone), and other things he saw at other times on his nocturnal ventures. How does everyone (Savage) know mystery man is nocturnal?
D
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Do we know of, how old the neighbor in #35 was?
D
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https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...r-reveals-her-suspicions-20190430-p51ijw.html
"I can't think of anyone who would want to harm William. I was asked this question initially by Wendy HUDSON (a police woman who lives in Kendall) and I suggested [a neighbour] across the road (as he keeps odd hours and lives alone). Wendy assures me that she has checked him out thoroughly," it reads.
The man has been vetted by Strike Force Rosann investigators, and found to have had no involvement in the case. He has since left the Kendall area.
-.-
It was the grandmother FGM and not PS, who told police about the man.
"I can't think of anyone who would want to harm William. I was asked this question initially by Wendy HUDSON (a police woman who lives in Kendall) and I suggested [a neighbour] across the road (as he keeps odd hours and lives alone). Wendy assures me that she has checked him out thoroughly," it reads.
The man has been vetted by Strike Force Rosann investigators, and found to have had no involvement in the case. He has since left the Kendall area.
-.-
It was the grandmother FGM and not PS, who told police about the man.
SLouTh
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This is a timeline that was started some time ago but needs updating and editing .... various members have contributed
I cant find a way to send it to you individually @Tim N so have placed it on the main thread..... There is also an updated one and I will try to find that as well........
We still need to add info from the inquest ..... Happy to assist if required....
Episode 1: Missing William Tyrrell(trying to keep sources to a minimum to verify easily
timeline
- 3.15pm (approx) arrived at cat boarding house @ Duffy’s Forest
- 3.45pm (approx) arrived to collect children at childcare
- 4.00pm approx left childcare
- Drove 4 hr trip to Kendall, north via F3
- 1st stop: Caltex Wyong - toilet break 5 minutes
- 2nd stop: 6.25pm Raymond terrace McDonald’s photo evidence
- 6.40 cctv leaving McDonald’s
- 3rd stop: 2 minutes later stopped on side of Rd to put on pull-ups
- Arrive Kendall 9pm
9pm Arrive at Kendall, put kids to bed
12/09/'14
6-7am Children get up
7-7.30 FM gets up and opens curtains to see 2 strange cars parked across the road from her house between AMS house and number 35's house.
7.30 - Dress, get ready for the day
8.30 Breakfast FM FGM and Kids - Scrambled egg and toast and orange juice
8.40 - AMS reverses out of her house to take her child to daycare to arrive at 9am. Says there are no cars parked on the street that day when she leaves.
8.55-9.00 MFC leaves, FFC said in her evidence that the MFC had already left when kids were riding bikes on the driveway.
9.00 - Mrs Wilson hears little children outside, leaves house? Doesn't notice any strange cars in the street.
9.03 - FM calls BS, can't remember which phone she uses (she used the landline), leaves a message asking about when the part arrives
9.10? - Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver,
(This is now known to be 9.00 am not 9.15 .. we need to change time and put in the correct order of events )
9.15 - FF heads off for a teleconference at Lakewood/Laurieton (both have been reported) - had prescription filled at chemist in Lakewood at 10:19am Lakewood is correct
9.10- FF plays with WT in the backyard that overlooks Benaroon Dr. Notices the 2 parked cars that she noticed earlier that day are still parked there, tries to get WT to climb a tree
9.30-9.35 Crabbb's get home
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
9.37- the last of 5 photos is taken of WT in his spiderman outfit while playing on the back deck, The kids have been drawing pictures to take to the cemetery later in the day
9.37 Heather leaves for Bingo
9.59 Savage on phone for 8 Minutes by Der Beaucroft
10.10-10.15 Crabbs heard car ( they said about 40mins after they got home )
*** 10.05 - 10.15 Estimated time of disappearance by Det Lara Beaucroft ..
*** 10:10 by Laidlaw
10.07 Savage on telephone - Det LBeaucroft
10.15 - 10.30 - WT is playing Mummy Tiger and hiding game around the side of the house, WT is bored and restless waiting for FF to return, FM expecting a text from FF that usually states he will be home in 5 minutes. FM says to kids shall we go down the front and look for Daddy's car'
10.19 - FF has script filled, where? - Lakewood chemist
10.30? - The Crabbes at 51 both noticed hearing a car driving up Benaroon dr, turning and driving away fast, they thought it sounded like the postie. So if that car left the street it went out the Batar Creek rd end of the street.
10.30 approx,- FF states he sent a text via Siri that he is 5 minutes away.
10.30 - FM notices it's quiet and start looking for WT
10.30 - 10.35 - LH is unpacking groceries from her car, she sees the man opposite on his ride on mower when she comes in and gives him a wave. Didn't hear or see any cars.
10.40 - FM is at the front gate of AMS place, meeting for the 1st time, AMS notices she can hear a male calling out for WT from the area behind the FGM's house, begins to start help searching. Because she knows someone is searching uphill she decides to head down towards the Batar Creek rd end of Benaroon Dr. It seems the women split at Ellendale rd. AMS goes down to the bus stop but has no recollection of seeing the man on his ride on mower at that stage. When she returns up the street she sees the FM coming out of Ellendale and the FM says to her, he has hit his head and can't respond or he is not here and now I have to call the police.
10.41 Savage on Phone to X-ray - Det L Beaucroft
10.45 Ronald Chapman’s sees Beige 4WD with child in the back in Laurel Street
statement signed and walkthrough interview April 2017 -LH
10.56 - FM calls the police from her mother’s landline, her husband has arrived home somewhere in this time and is searching frantically.. - FM stayed home to care for daughter while FD searched
11.00 Rowley first saw job
11.06 Rowley arrives @ #48 Benaroon - doorknocked and looked around houses, canvassed every house and business that may have had CCTV showing vehicles entering or leaving area, identified someone at local café had asked for directions, first spoke with FM about cars she saw 3 days later(15th)
11.30 ish Inspector Aldridge & Harper arrive
12.30 Snr Cnt Williams arrived ( Land & search co-ordinator )
‘lunchtime’ SES coordinator Paul Burg arrived
12.45 Snr Cnt Wendy Hudson arrived with her 2 sons - off duty at the time, took William’s sister aside and asked if she recalled anything & if William had any hiding places, sister couldn’t think of any. Attended home of ‘bit strange’ neighbour
13.00 Greg Newton arrived (PS’s BIL) - saw Paul Savage standing in street with locals (when he left on 13th he could not recall anyone stopping him as he left)
Late 2015 - Survey to all Residents
13 June 2018 Forensic Search
Batar Creek Road - Second Forensic Search
Late 2018 All residents recanvassed by Police
11Sept 2019 - Police search sawmill at Logan’s Crossing
SLouTh
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And this was another updated version of the Time Line ....
@Tim N this one also needs updating with new information
Initially we were trying to do a "time line" with "referencing" for every stage, so that others could see where the info on the time line came from .... but that hasn't happened as yet .... and it is huge job!
Friday 12 the September 2014
06:30 ish : PS goes for his walk
06:00 - 07:00 : kids wake up
07:00 - 07:30 : FFC opens curtains & sees 2 cars between # 31 ( AMS ) & #35 ( Peter's ) houses
07:30 : breakfast & dress etc
08:10 : AMS waves her kids of to school who are at the bus stop on crn Benaroon & Batar Ck Rd. She is standing at her carport.
08:40 : AMS reverses out to take her child to pre-school. Arrives at 9am. Saw no cars parked on the street.
08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )
08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence )
08:50 : PS back from his walk, he stopped for approx 30mins to talk to lady named "Lyn" -the lady from the caravan
09:02 : PS calls Casino hospital where his brother is ( call lasts 22 seconds )
09:03 : FFC calls Bill Spedding from FGM's landline, leaves a message. Call lasted 38 seconds
09:05 – 10:00 ish : ( most of this is from the CO book )FFC gave no direct times in her evidence also
*FFC took WT for walk around garden (Lindsay was inside with FGM),
*were playing “Mummy Monsters” FFC spotted good climbing tree, tried to get WT to climb tree, he was not interested “No mummy, too high”
* FFC noticed 2 cars she saw earlier. FFC sipped & grazed hand.
* FFC said at the inquest they were playing for “ around 5 minutes”
* Went inside to tend to hand, Lindsay asked what they had been doing, she than wanted to play “Mummy monsters” so they all went out again to play.
* Both kids collected leaves & twigs for cards they intended to make for “ Opa’s” grave
* Worked on cards for a while ( I think this might have been when the photos were taken @ 09:37) & than FGM said “ Okay , let’s see your new bikes”
* Both kids raced to carport ( MFC had taken bikes out of car the evening before )
* Kids rode up & down the driveway , only going as far as the road & not over the kerb.
* After a few laps WT suggested they have a race . so they did & took off to the end of the driveway. Lindsay stopped in the middle of the driveway & said “whose that car Mummy?” , FFC looked & saw dark green -grey sedan pull into the Millers driveway & reverse out & leave, she said “ I don’t know , probably the neighbours”
* Kids were than back riding theie bikes , Lindsay lost her balance coming down the driveway & fell into the garden, she was not hurt, WT than decided he would crash his bike into the garden also.
* FGM than said “I think it’s time to put these bikes away”
09:10 : GO calls FGM house ( from CO book )
09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.
09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM
09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café
09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home
09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes
10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )
10:00 -10:30ish :
FGM put kettle on ( after being outside with the kids riding the bikes ) ( from CO book )
Kids had now moved to the back deck , after teas made both FFC & FGM sat outside on deck.
Lindsay emptied the pencil container, & a dice rolled out, played dice game where Lindsay would jump the amount of times that the dice landed on.
WT came over & played as well, he soon got bored & than decided to play another game “ Daddy Tiger” , he pretended to be Daddy Tiger , he crawled around on the ground for a bit , playing at being a Tiger, He was running around roaring , in his Velcro sandals & spiderman suit .
He asked Lindsay if she wanted to play too, but she was concentrating on making her card, so William carried on without her , jumping of the deck , roaring & coming back again. He jumped of the deck , ran around the side of the house roared…………….than silence
10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.
10:05 - 10:15 : Detective Laura Beacroft thinks this time could be when WT went missing
10:10 - 10:15 : Laidlaw thinks this could be the time WT went missing
10:19 : MFC has script filled at chemist
10:20 : PS & MS left café to walk across to school
10:00 - 11:00 : Geoff Owen at Kendall Community centre paying for his advertising
10: 30 : MFC sent text, be back 5 minutes using Siri function on his phone.
10:30 : FFC noticed all quite, can see WT, can't hear WT, starts looking for him
10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go
10:35 - 10:45 : Lydene Heslop arrives home from grocery shopping. Saw man on mower, saw no cars
10:37 - 10:38 : Heather Savage leaves for bingo
10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house.
10:41 : PS calls x-ray place ( short call )
10:45 : Ron Chapman looks at his clock on the wall, it's 10:45, he than sees the 2 cars
10:50 : AMS knocks on PS door, PS leaves to start searching.
10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.
11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job
11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up their driveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen a little boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard. Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car & drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.
Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting bins out etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for the Miller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Miller parked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.
11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive
11:30 ish : Inspector Aldridge arrives
11:30 - 11:45 : PS back from search
12:19 : Parts delivered to BS house for FGM washing machine ( other parts delivered Thus 11/11/14 )
12:30 : Snr Cnt Tim Williams arrives ( Land & Search Co-Ordinator )
"lunchtime" : Paul Berg arrives ( SES )
12:45 : Snr Cnt Wendy Hudson arrives ( was on an ADO ) with her 2 sons
13:00 : Greg & Regina Newton arrive @ PS's ( as per his testimony )
13:15 - 13:30 : GN & RG arrive at PS's ( heard in evidence by Craddock in PS's testimony )
14:26 : PS called FGM house from his mobile
16:36 : PS call to Casino hospital
Cheers
SouthAussie
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I think it was Savage who told the media that mystery man was scared and moved away, and other details about him. Taxi driver, nocturnal ....
SLouTh
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Yes it was the FGM who initially pointed him out to the Police .... I think the Savages were able to fill in more information about him as they had a better view of his home..... as both homes, the Savages and #35, are set back from the road about the same distance ..... and the Savages could possibly see more of him in a straight line across the fence....
All IMO
SLouTh
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I think from memory that both FGM and Savage said they saw lights on at his house all night and nothing by day .... and that is was from altered sleeping patterns due to being a retired Taxi Driver - shift work.... but as we have never heard an explanation from Nocturnal Man himself, we don't really know this for sure.....
SLouTh
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Another interesting thing about Nocturnal Man and him moving away from the area - he may have listed his home for sale as early as 5 weeks after William's disappearance.... IMO he didn't hang around for long.....
The house sold in June 2015 after being listed for 224 days, meaning it was listed on or just after 20th October 2014... approx 5 weeks (38days)
Sold byKew First National Real Estate
224days listed
Property Report for 35 Benaroon Drive, Kendall NSW 2439
The house sold in June 2015 after being listed for 224 days, meaning it was listed on or just after 20th October 2014... approx 5 weeks (38days)
Sold byKew First National Real Estate
224days listed
Property Report for 35 Benaroon Drive, Kendall NSW 2439
Tinker Taylor
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I've often wondered about this, not sure if I asked the question before.
When I heard FM talk about the cars she saw opposite FGM's house, did she actually identify that they were in front of #35 or was it "assumed" and then became "a fact"?
I ask because I have wondered if they were actually in front of the vacant lot across the road (between #51 and #43)?
Does anyone have a direct quote (from the inquest maybe?) identifying the actual place they were seen?
When I heard FM talk about the cars she saw opposite FGM's house, did she actually identify that they were in front of #35 or was it "assumed" and then became "a fact"?
I ask because I have wondered if they were actually in front of the vacant lot across the road (between #51 and #43)?
Does anyone have a direct quote (from the inquest maybe?) identifying the actual place they were seen?
SLouTh
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As I recall they were parked in the "middle section of the fence line" between 2 driveways ..... meaning, not looking they were visiting one house or another......
(eg if you were visiting house number #35 you would normally park in or near the actual driveway...... IMO)
The images released by the Police show the (?Sharpley's) house (red brick house with white gable ends, and wooden fence with green letter box) in the background quite clearly so I am guessing they have tried to put them where they were seen ??
PS I am not 100% sure that house is the Sharpley house as I get who lived in what house sometimes confused .... except for FGM, Savage and #35 .....
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SLouTh
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Regarding the letter from Frank Abbott to Ray Porter, that Irma Porter allegedly threw away.......
Is it possible that Abbott didn't know how frail Porter had become.... and as he was sending the letter from jail, he used the word "boat" to mean something else like "body" or "the suitcase' ? Like "boat" was a code word???
Could this be why Police seem to be searching land rather than water??
Just wondering.......????
All IMO
Is it possible that Abbott didn't know how frail Porter had become.... and as he was sending the letter from jail, he used the word "boat" to mean something else like "body" or "the suitcase' ? Like "boat" was a code word???
Could this be why Police seem to be searching land rather than water??
Just wondering.......????
All IMO
SLouTh
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Agree.... and possibly the length of the relationship? If you live with someone or near someone for a period of years you generally get to know their habits etc ....
IMO
SLouTh
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Regarding the alleged phone call when Porter stated that Abbott called him and asked him to pick him up at the shed behind the school........(and he picked FA and a "cute boy")
Police should be able to triangulate that call with the data collected from the telephone tower data ....
Even if Abbott used a "throw away phone" the Police should have still been able to correlate Abbotts phone number, and his location at the time, with Ray's phone number....
Interesting if both of them then turned their phones off ????? Or only Abbott did?? Could they possibly have traced Porter's phone and location? and is this why the Police are searching only the local area??
I was speaking to Police about this subject recently, and it is amazing how accurate this data is ........ they had used it to find a missing person in the middle of nowhere, within a matter of hours..... and hundreds of KM's away from where the person was last seen....
Wondering if anything was said about the Tower at the inquest???
Police should be able to triangulate that call with the data collected from the telephone tower data ....
Even if Abbott used a "throw away phone" the Police should have still been able to correlate Abbotts phone number, and his location at the time, with Ray's phone number....
Interesting if both of them then turned their phones off ????? Or only Abbott did?? Could they possibly have traced Porter's phone and location? and is this why the Police are searching only the local area??
I was speaking to Police about this subject recently, and it is amazing how accurate this data is ........ they had used it to find a missing person in the middle of nowhere, within a matter of hours..... and hundreds of KM's away from where the person was last seen....
Wondering if anything was said about the Tower at the inquest???
interested64
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I had wondered if it was code as well
Tinker Taylor
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BBM
Yes, I know the Police put them where they thought they were seen. I was interested to hear FM's own words about where she saw them. Maybe they didn't think it was important.
SouthAussie
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Wasn't there a walk-through or something with FM? I seem to visually remember her standing where the cars were. Describing where they were.
It was in the same place where the police said they were - where the artist impression drew them. IIRC
Maybe someone else remembers this, too? Hopefully with a little more clarity.
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