Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #57

[drsleuth]

I really appreciate your snippets and insights from the inquest, thanks for sharing Doc.

I can see why police are having a hard time pinning down FA now. The evidence from the various witnesses is as clear as mud.

Yep Loxil, that is what I was trying to show. Everything is as clear as mud, as you say.....

Nothing in this case is black & white ( except William is still missing )

Alot of these witnesses are intertwined & some gave conflicting evidence , memories are poor ( or conveniently poor )

It's hard to know who to believe & work out where everyone was on that fateful day.

I don't envy the Coroner

 

[JLZ]

Hopper : Are you unsure wether you saw FA on 12/9/14?

DP : Unsure , was home on the 13/9/14

Dr Sleuth, did DP say that FA was home on the 13/9/14, or did he leave it unclear whether he remembered that FA was home or that he himself DP was home that day?

 

[JLZ]

yep, Steve had a lot to say - IMO he’s pretty p&$# off at his old mate FA, who he used to look up to & who reminded him of his Dad; until suddenly he’s doing 16 years for this appalling crime against children. . 16 years! Most of these crimes only attract 6 years, according to ‘Steve’. .

Yes, I've only read the summaries not viewed the program, but it struck me too that Steve was 'pretty pissed off' at FA but apparently not particularly over the child sex abuse crime. Also I thought it was inconsistent to say that it was common internet knowledge that a proportionate sentence would have been 6 years, but that FA knowing the entrances and exits of Benaroon Drive proved that he had been there. Um, Google Maps; crime discussion forums? As to the traffic camera elsewhere in Kendall, that's neither here nor there unless FA also said that he'd never been in Kendall.

 

[drsleuth]

Dr Sleuth, did DP say that FA was home on the 13/9/14, or did he leave it unclear whether he remembered that FA was home or that he himself DP was home that day?

In the exchange between Hooper & DP , DP said he that he didn't think he saw FA on 12/9/14.

Than he was pressed further and asked if he was unsure if he saw FA on the 12/9/14 DP replied he ( FA ) was "home" on the 13/9/14.

Was asked if he saw FA on the 11/9/14 DP replied yes, and that FA was helping him on the buses ( remember these two are supposed to hate each other & DP is "scared" of FA )

He was than asked if he saw Ray ( 11/9/14 ) & DP said yes.

He was than asked if he saw anyone else & DP said no

He was than asked again , just so it was clear if he saw FA on the 12/9/14 & DO said " I didn't see Frank "

Than we had FA & DP battle it out ...........

DP said FA was at the property on 11/9/14--left 12pm , said Ray picked him up. ( Frank said "that's not correct Mr Parish, police have evidence" ) --this exchange was FA x examining DP

So in answer to your question DP said FA was home on the 13/9/14 & I guess you'd have to assume that DP was also home to know that

What I / you / we / the cops / the coroner believe is the truth, is another thing altogether I think !

 

[drsleuth]

what car did GO drive ?

Didn’t someone’s ‘son’ scrap a car in Qld or something like, that resembled that other car, the sedan .

GO had a Mazda 626 ( unsure of colour )

 

[JLZ]

In the exchange between Hooper & DP , DP said he that he didn't think he saw FA on 12/9/14.

Than he was pressed further and asked if he was unsure if he saw FA on the 12/9/14 DP replied he ( FA ) was "home" on the 13/9/14.

Was asked if he saw FA on the 11/9/14 DP replied yes, and that FA was helping him on the buses ( remember these two are supposed to hate each other & DP is "scared" of FA )

He was than asked if he saw Ray ( 11/9/14 ) & DP said yes.

He was than asked if he saw anyone else & DP said no

He was than asked again , just so it was clear if he saw FA on the 12/9/14 & DO said " I didn't see Frank "

Than we had FA & DP battle it out ...........

DP said FA was at the property on 11/9/14--left 12pm , said Ray picked him up. ( Frank said "that's not correct Mr Parish, police have evidence" ) --this exchange was FA x examining DP

So in answer to your question DP said FA was home on the 13/9/14 & I guess you'd have to assume that DP was also home to know that

What I / you / we / the cops / the coroner believe is the truth, is another thing altogether I think !

[Edit: deleted; yes I've mixed up the dates somehow.]

But the questioning seemed a bit disorganized too. The questioner would ask several questions, DP would answer one, and then there was no follow up on the others. What was happening there?

 

[JLZ]

Was asked if he saw FA on the 11/9/14 DP replied yes, and that FA was helping him on the buses ( remember these two are supposed to hate each other & DP is "scared" of FA )

Yep and DP is letting Frank drive his cars, leaves the keys in the ignition, but mostly Frank asks and it's OK, and sometimes he doesn't and apparently that's OK too, and they're driving each other places like the airport unless I'm confused again, but DP hates Frank and wants him out and definitely didn't ask him to stay in the first place and Frank is refusing to budge. . . . I mean a guest/tenant who won't leave, that's a really hostile situation, you don't leave your vehicles at their disposal?

 

[drsleuth]

Yes, for some reason they are doing their best at deflection....

Were they together that morning in Kendal I wonder???? When supposedly GO paid his advertising, that he can no longer "remember"????
Was GO showing FA the impending job???? that morning while they were in town???

But I don't think GO's car matches the beige description of the second car??? Wasn't GO's car a white Mazda sedan???? (please correct me if I am wrong.. going by memory....)

All speculation and IMO......

Yep it was a Mazda 626.

Just looking back on GO's evidence.........

Some statements made by Mr Craddock:

• Heron's Creek / Logans Crossing 4 minutes from Kendall
• GO kept a diary when making appointments
• Had contact with FGM in 6/14 re plumbing ( fixing tap washers etc )
  
• Contact with FGM again Mon 8/9 to repair some decking ( assessed job on same day )
  
• FFG only peron at house that day , went home did quote, phone later that day with quote
• on Thur 11/9/14 spoke to a female who said was the daughter ( told police a different daughter to FFC ) This has never made sense to me
  
• Inquired to do work on the Tues 16/9/14
• On friday 11/9/14 5pm attended appoint @ Port Macquarie hospital ( GO said he couldn't remember & asked was it in his diary )
  
• From his statement attended cancer support meeting ( above appointment )
  
• Woke on Friday 12/9/14, went to Kendall community centre to pay for advertising in the Kendall chronicle ( 10-11 am )
  
• Went into hospital @ Port Mac 18/9 for surgery, was in hospital 6 days ( was on waiting list for surgery & had no set date )
  
• Familiar with FA. lived in same area in a caravan up the Rd ( Heron's Creek Rd )
  
• Was aware FA was a " jack of all trades" & GO did same sort of jobs
• GO said he didn't have anyone organise anyone to do any of his jobs while he was in hospital & didn't have any jobs booked.
• Questioned about FA doing work for him, had no confidence in his work
  
• GO said FA lived in a caravan 1/2 km down the Rd than was kicked out , than lived in caravan next door to GO ( 16 Misty Way )
  
• When the coroner asked " Do you do work together?"in realtion to FA, Go replied " Not really , nothing worth mentioning , put it that way )
  
• Had Mazda 626
• Eventually fixed FGM deck on 10/10/14
• Evidence seemed to end early @ 15:26 ( when we usually sat till 16:00 )

 

[drsleuth]

Yep and DP is letting Frank drive his cars, leaves the keys in the ignition, but mostly Frank asks and it's OK, and sometimes he doesn't and apparently that's OK too, and they're driving each other places like the airport unless I'm confused again, but DP hates Frank and wants him out and definitely didn't ask him to stay in the first place and Frank is refusing to budge. . . . I mean a guest/tenant who won't leave, that's a really hostile situation, you don't leave your vehicles at their disposal?

You summed it up well JLZ, nothing makes sense to us "normal " people & I wonder why I was so drained those weeks in Taree & took a break for awhile after

These people make out they are all enemies but all continue to "hang" TOGETHER ALOT!!

DP had even been to RP's place in Wauchope!

 

[JLZ]

Yep it was a Mazda 626.

Just looking back on GO's evidence.........

Some statements made by Mr Craddock:

• Heron's Creek / Logans Crossing 4 minutes from Kendall
• GO kept a diary when making appointments
• Had contact with FGM in 6/14 re plumbing ( fixing tap washers etc )
  
• Contact with FGM again Mon 8/9 to repair some decking ( assessed job on same day )
  
• FFG only peron at house that day , went home did quote, phone later that day with quote
• on Thur 11/9/14 spoke to a female who said was the daughter ( told police a different daughter to FFC ) This has never made sense to me
  
• Inquired to do work on the Tues 16/9/14
• On friday 11/9/14 5pm attended appoint @ Port Macquarie hospital ( GO said he couldn't remember & asked was it in his diary )
  
• From his statement attended cancer support meeting ( above appointment )
  
• Woke on Friday 12/9/14, went to Kendall community centre to pay for advertising in the Kendall chronicle ( 10-11 am )
  
• Went into hospital @ Port Mac 18/9 for surgery, was in hospital 6 days ( was on waiting list for surgery & had no set date )
  
• Familiar with FA. lived in same area in a caravan up the Rd ( Heron's Creek Rd )
  
• Was aware FA was a " jack of all trades" & GO did same sort of jobs
• GO said he didn't have anyone organise anyone to do any of his jobs while he was in hospital & didn't have any jobs booked.
• Questioned about FA doing work for him, had no confidence in his work
  
• GO said FA lived in a caravan 1/2 km down the Rd than was kicked out , than lived in caravan next door to GO ( 16 Misty Way )
  
• When the coroner asked " Do you do work together?"in realtion to FA, Go replied " Not really , nothing worth mentioning , put it that way )
  
• Had Mazda 626
• Eventually fixed FGM deck on 10/10/14
• Evidence seemed to end early @ 15:26 ( when we usually sat till 16:00 )

Do you have a note on the times of the phone calls between GO and FGM/FFC? Because my timeline says that he phoned them on the Friday at 9:10, and I'm thinking I must have the wrong day.

 

[drsleuth]

Do you have a note on the times of the phone calls between GO and FGM/FFC? Because my timeline says that he phoned them on the Friday at 9:10, and I'm thinking I must have the wrong day.

I just have that GO phoned back late in arvo on the 8/9/14, that's the only time I have re phone calls .

Have to go out for awhile.........

 

[bearbear]

fa and all these other men who know/dont know, friends/ not friends are so dodgy sounding, opportunists, im wondering if they all had a common interest and hung out together sharing their stories and videos etc, i remember early on there was mention of fa?and another man seen together with a young boy down some country road or farm, one of their associates saw them standing there, i always wondered about that boy

 

[JLZ]

on Thur 11/9/14 spoke to a female who said was the daughter ( told police a different daughter to FFC ) This has never made sense to me

What if he rang on the Friday morning and spoke to FFC, and then GO changed the story so that it happened on the Thursday--the family arrived on Thursday didn't they?--no not until Thursday night--he's thinking on his feet here, aha! different daughter.

I wish I'd noted sources. If GO spoke to FFC on Friday morning it should be in FFC's evidence. All I remember is that when GO said 'different daughter', FFC gestured that she had no idea what he could be talking about.

 

[Blues Clues]

QUOTE="JLZ, post: 17137733, member: 117137"]What if he rang on the Friday morning and spoke 9.1to FFC, and then GO changed the story so that it happened on the Thursday--the family arrived on Thursday didn't they?--no not until Thursday night--he's thinking on his feet here, aha! different daughter.

I wish I'd noted sources. If GO spoke to FFC on Friday morning it should be in FFC's evidence. All I remember is that when GO said 'different daughter', FFC gestured that she had no idea what he could be talking about.[/QUOTE]

Yes JLZ FFC did gesture that she had no idea what he could be talking about. I observed this on the day at the inquest. The information about a 9.10am missed call to the Benaroon Drive property from GO is, I believe, in CO's book Missing William Tyrrell. I haven't read it.

 

[drsleuth]

QUOTE="JLZ, post: 17137733, member: 117137"]What if he rang on the Friday morning and spoke 9.1to FFC, and then GO changed the story so that it happened on the Thursday--the family arrived on Thursday didn't they?--no not until Thursday night--he's thinking on his feet here, aha! different daughter.

I wish I'd noted sources. If GO spoke to FFC on Friday morning it should be in FFC's evidence. All I remember is that when GO said 'different daughter', FFC gestured that she had no idea what he could be talking about.

Yes JLZ FFC did gesture that she had no idea what he could be talking about. I observed this on the day at the inquest. The information about a 9.10am missed call to the Benaroon Drive property from GO is, I believe, in CO's book Missing William Tyrrell. I haven't read it.[/QUOTE]
That's correct Blue Clues, just checked . Page 16 & 17 chapter one. Missing William Tyrrell by Caroline Overington

Says GO called just after FFC had called( 09:03 ) & left message for BS. It was 09:10. ( according to phone records ) as per CO's book

The FFC has no re collection of that call per the book & she wasn't asked about it from what I re-call or have in my notes from the inquest

CO says " She was , it seems , already outside with William"

So who answered the phone ?? FGM I guess??

 

[JLZ]

Whose phone records? Is CO implying that the call from GO came in on the same number from which FFC rang Spedding? Did she do that from her own mobile phone, or from FGM's? I don't see how GO would have had FFC's mobile number.

Edit: Something weird going on with the quotes.

 

[drsleuth]

Whose phone records? Is CO implying that the call from GO came in on the same number from which FFC rang Spedding? Did she do that from her own mobile phone, or from FGM's? I don't see how GO would have had FFC's mobile number.

Edit: Something weird going on with the quotes.

I think she rang WS ( went to message bank ) from the portable handset of the FGM's landline JLZ.

Nothing of this call was mentioned at the inquest at all, you'd think that would be important wouldn't you ??

 

[JLZ]

I think she rang WS ( went to message bank ) from the portable handset of the FGM's landline JLZ.

Nothing of this call was mentioned at the inquest at all, you'd think that would be important wouldn't you ??

I definitely think the GO call would be important, if it happened.

While you're there,

• On friday 11/9/14 5pm attended appoint @ Port Macquarie hospital ( GO said he couldn't remember & asked was it in his diary )

• From his statement attended cancer support meeting ( above appointment )

would that be Thursday 11th or Friday 12th that GO attended a cancer support meeting?

 

[JLZ]

Is it possible that at 9:10 Spedding tried to return FFC's call and CO misassigned his telephone number?

 

[drsleuth]

I definitely think the GO call would be important, if it happened.

While you're there,

would that be Thursday 11th or Friday 12th that GO attended a cancer support meeting?

Opps sorry, should be thurs 11/9 he had the appointment