Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #59

[PinkPower]

Its the one thing that prevents me buying into the FFC being involved. Happy to be wrong, but current thinking that she is the perpetrator just does not ring true to me, in light of the timing of the disappearance. The quick calling of the police she would have to be extremely confident he would not be found. IF she had something to do with it, ie there was an accident and she covered it up.

This is just my opinion only, but if you assume that a perpetrator of a crime is 'normal', then you have a hard time understanding it. But if you shift your perspective to think about somebody who is anomalous, such as, hypothetically, a psychopath, it's not so hard to fit it together.

Many people who commit crimes are certainly not 'normal'. Psychopaths are twenty to twenty-five times more likely than non-psychopaths to be in prison.
In the case of crimes involved with someone with psychopathy, there is blunted affect. These people do not react emotionally or in panic like 'normal people'. They are calm, strategic, quick thinking.

Hiding a small body within an hour and a half is certainly very possible for a 'normal' person.

This is a general commentary on criminals, not a commentary on FPs per se.

 

[JLZ]

If you do a 360 turn on Googlemaps you will see many houses with a direct line (earshot / eyeline) to that balcony.

It's one thing for a criminal to be cool enough to quickly hide a body, and then present to the police and media for 7 years.

But it's another thing altogether for an innocent person to witness or discover an accidental death and to not react or create a commotion, and for it to go unnoticed and unheard by neighbors? I mean, for someone to die and your mind to immediate go to "I must cover this up" rather than screaming out loud, that's quite a cool cucumber.

Things aren't lining up in my mind, is all I'm saying.

But by the same token, we believed someone was game enough to park in plain sight across the road (potentially multiple people in two cars), and then abduct a child in broad daylight, without a hint of concern of being seen in such an obvious location. People believed that.

If William fell over the left (in your picture) end of the balcony I think he'd be shielded by bushes at this angle and certainly from further along in the direction of Savage's place. If FFC walked around and found him there, she'd mostly be invisible too.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

I don't know about that. If that person hasnt slipped up and chatted about it for these 7 years, I highly doubt they'll start chatting about it now regardless of who is the main poi

I wouldn’t have thought so either, but look at Daniel morcombe and his killer finally slipping up and admitting what he did.
Maybe someone thinks they are in the clear because the FP are the suspects, so they let something slip.

honestly I have no idea. This whole thing is a mess.

I just wish they’d find the poor little man and give those who love him some closure.

it’s so sad. Heartbreaking ‍

 

[misty48]

Same with vilifying innocent people, regardless of age.

I think the media have an exemption pass for that.

 

[DDDddd]

If the photo was actually taken at 7.30am and corrected, then the timeframe for coming up with a plan was closer to 3 hours not 1.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Minutes ago police pulled out the x-ray equipment to x-ray the slab in the garage"

Source: Ch7 TV news right now

 

[DDDddd]

I believe the gate was there in 2014, there is a screen shot (on this thread or the previous one) from a walkthrough with MFC at the time and the gate is partly open.

Ok thanks, would be interesting to know if it was open when the police arrived

 

[butterstick]

Hm, this new search is certainly intense

 

[Random-me]

I worked in education. It happened many times as payback for not being allowed to go / do whatever they wanted. Parents went though hell.

I worked resi care with kids in out of home care. I can think of a then 10yo and 13yo who made some terrible claims against carers because they didn't want them there. Resulted in suspension whilst under investigation (later cleared)

*not saying this child is manipulative etc, just that it does happen

 

[Tigerlily75]

It's also important to remember that the age of criminal responsibility in Australia is 10 & certain false accusations carry a custodial sentence of up to 7 years.

What on earth makes you think she’s made a false accusation? And when, in the history of Australia, has a 10 year old ever been imprisoned for such a thing, let alone for seven years? I don’t think this is important to remember, there is no basis at all for this comment IMO. I’m shocked to be honest. We don’t even know how this AVO came about and people seem to have their claws out for this child.

 

[Donnertronner]

I’m very suspicious of the timing of the AVO and the NSW police current direction. If I’m wrong and the FFM is involved then the body should be found because she doesn’t appear to be a criminal mastermind so there would be limited places the body could be hidden due to time and lack of skill.

Totally agree. Also, would it be common for someone to immediately react by coving up an accident? It's tragic but most mothers would call ambulance, not hide it. You would need to be a cold cold person to react that way imo.

 

[katydid23]

My understanding is that they are looking for fluids or removal of such. If William fell from the balcony and was moved to FGM car in the driveway to transport it, there may be blood, or soil dug up to remove evidence of.

Really? I thought it was said they were looking for anomalies? And they would only dig up the concrete if they find any.


The crime editor said tomorrow it's expected that Federal Police will specifically look at a concrete driveway, using a ground penetrating radar.

"That particular machinery will look at anomalies beneath the surface," he said.

He said if any anomalies are found it will then need to be dug up

Simon Bouda explains latest developments in William Tyrrell investigation

 

[PinkPower]

None of this makes sense to me. If the FC were involved, wouldn’t the initial investigation have found traces of blood etc in that garden, if he did in fact fall? Why wouldn’t they find it then but would be able to find it now?

I haven’t been following this case closely, but I didn’t listen to the podcast episode of “Breaking point”. FC were very scathing about the change in leadership for the investigation.

Could this be the reason police are now focussing on the FM/FF? I think it’s not likely, but I also can’t seem to get behind this new focus on the FC either. It seems really implausible under the current timeline to clean up and hide a body with loads of police and sniffer dogs, trackers swarming the area - and they didn’t pick up on the scent of blood, disturbed ground etc then? The car wasn’t searched then either or if it was nothing was found, but 7 years later suddenly all those things can be found??

I can’t help but think this is smoke and mirrors for something else. Maybe the FC are working with the police in a charade to flush out a confession from someone else - bugging or otherwise.

I did see on “today “ this morning that they played the audio of GJ on the radio and he said the FC were thoroughly investigated. They were bugged. They also looked into an accident maybe occurring, including a balcony fall and it was all ruled out.

there’s way more to this IMO. I’m just not sure what.

IMO, the difference now is that there is another person old enough to speak about that day, or perhaps something that happened since that day.

It could even be something like; the FP have been under surveillance and returned to a particular location, which has prompted a series of events.

It could be that the FC has been removed and is being protected as a witness in the homicide investigation and there were historical abuse claims which would satisfy an AVO and removal and assault charge.

If one of the FP's was the perpetrator and the other FP was none the wiser, there would never be any chatter and previous bugging would have had no outcome.

Loads of possibilities.

 

[missepic]

Photo timing:~
Sunrise: NSW Friday, 12 September 2014 5:59 am (AEST)
so the positioning of william on that back porch with that left lighting on his face would fit with both those times I would say?

 

[katydid23]

They could also be looking for a concentrated impaction of soil where it might have been hosed intensely in a particular spot.

So five years later, an area that had been hosed intensely will show up under concrete, by this machinery? Wouldn't the natural changes from the elements and the seasonal changes have a bigger impact than a hosing down of the area 5 years prior?

 

[PinkPower]

So five years later, an area that had been hosed intensely will show up under concrete, by this machinery? Wouldn't the natural changes from the elements and the seasonal changes have a bigger impact than a hosing down of the area 5 years prior?

I suspect the reason the police are working with a hydrologist is because they can ascertain patterns in water and normal weather degradation of soil, as opposed to human-caused soil disruption (in the case of for example, a lot of water used in a small area to remove body fluids.)

The technology they use can detect soil disruption that isn't natural, yes.

 

[katydid23]

Sure, but the difference between this situation and you and your friend is that you haven't had a child disappear whilst in your care.
It's unusual to be trying to craft an image of perfection when your child is missing.

Are we sure it is unusual to craft an image of perfect parenting when one's child is missing?

I think Summer Wells Mom did just that and has been called out for doing so by many onlookers. She claims she was just away for 'two minutes' from her daughter and in that 2 minute window she was taken. And she described that afternoon as planting flowers with grandmother and candy etc etc....seemingly trying to paint herself out to be a perfect Mum.

I don't think it is that unusual for parents of missing children to try and portray themselves as very good parents, maybe in a defensive way.

And I do believe that foster parents can be very defensive about their parenting skills. It kind of comes with the territory, imo.

 

[iiiii's]

”But a newly revealed document from the inquest’s brief of evidence, obtained by The Australian, says the jpeg photograph was “created” at 7.30am and “corrected” at 9.37am”.

“Until NSW Coroner Harriet Grahame’s urgently ordered forensic examination takes place, it is unclear if the time was corrected to 9.37am to cater for, say, the camera itself being set on the wrong time”.

It's also important to remember that the age of criminal responsibility in Australia is 10 & certain false accusations carry a custodial sentence of up to 7 years.

Interestingly, that law is underway to increase the age to 12 with all states AG's being on board with the change, and there is still a push to increase the age further to 14 to be more in line with the international community. Australia moves towards raising age of criminal responsibility but advocates say 12 still too young

 

[Donnertronner]

This is just my opinion only, but if you assume that a perpetrator of a crime is 'normal', then you have a hard time understanding it. But if you shift your perspective to think about somebody who is anomalous, such as, hypothetically, a psychopath, it's not so hard to fit it together.

Many people who commit crimes are certainly not 'normal'. Psychopaths are twenty to twenty-five times more likely than non-psychopaths to be in prison.
In the case of crimes involved with someone with psychopathy, there is blunted affect. These people do not react emotionally or in panic like 'normal people'. They are calm, strategic, quick thinking.

Hiding a small body within an hour and a half is certainly very possible for a 'normal' person.

This is a general commentary on criminals, not a commentary on FPs per se.

Would there be a psychological reason for hiding the body as opposed to reporting an accident? The only reason I can think of (and I take your point about perspectives) is that it was murder not accident. Otherwise, logically, the outcome from reporting an accident is way less risky than being found later to have perverted the truth.

 

[PinkPower]

Are we sure it is unusual to craft an image of perfect parenting when one's child is missing?

I think Summer Wells Mom did just that and has been called out for doing so by many onlookers. She claims she was just away for 'two minutes' from her daughter ans in that 2 minute window she was taken. And she described that afternoon as planting flowers with grandmother and candy etc etc....seemingly trying to pain herself out to be a perfect Mum.

I don't think it is that unusual for parents of missing children to try and portray themselves as very good parents, maybe in a defensive way.

And I do believe that foster parents can be very defensive about their parenting skills. It kind of comes with the territory, imo.

I can see your point, and indeed, if a child went missing in your care and you were (wrongly) considered a suspect, I can see how most people might react a little bit defensively. They would be suffering immense guilt on top of grief, etc.

What I think is most unusual about the FM's statements, are the level of details and each statement involves irrelevant details portraying her as an upstanding mother. This is different to defensiveness, this looks IMO to be a well crafted veneer.

JMO.