Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #64

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@drsleuth attended the inquest and stated here in a previous post that FFC said she went driving searching after MFC arrived home. MFC arrived back around 1035 and the first LE arrived around 1106. When LE arrived FFC would have had to give details and stay put in case WT appeared, I doubt LE would allow her drive off .(moo).

So is this the drive to the riding school .. after MFC got home? Why would she take FGMs car if he was home by then with the family car? Is this another version or a clarified version?
 
Has anyone ever put up a council plan for the storm water drain...could he of had a toy that fell down and he tried to get it...were these ever searched fully ?

The foster father looked in the these places kinds of places, but I'm not sure if police officially did:

He looked under houses, external fences, pits, drains and sheds.
“Everything, everywhere he might have gone,” he said.


William Tyrrell's foster father 'hysterical' when child went missing, inquest hears
 
Thank you. My brain is mush. I wonder why she didn’t take the family car. If MFC had just arrived back, would that car have blocked FGM’s in? Just pondering.

The inquest heard about ‘a "creepy" service station worker who helped in the search for William days before he was arrested for sexually abusing intellectually disabled men’. Anyone heard of any further investigation into this guy? Initials RD.

Info from:

Court closed for some Tyrrell witnesses
If you go back in the threads there a pages of discussion about RD.
 
I have been reading the older threads, particularly #30 - #45 (I’m still going but try and keep up with the latest as well) and I agree it must feel weird to even discuss timelines and inconsistencies now. I understand the MFC and FFC were “cleared” and “ruled out” at the time and were not able to be discussed but I’ve noticed whenever posters had genuine queries about the timeline or events of that morning (eg. people were asking about the drive the FFC took and what car it was in and when it could have happened back in 2019 and people were also asking about the drive to the airport fairly early in too), these comments were either ignored or shut down pretty quickly. I don’t see why trying to clarify what actually happened that morning was such a big issue. It definitely must feel weird for you bearbear as I know you were around then. Glad to see you have kept an open mind :p

I am really glad to hear that the older threads are being read. There have been so many ups and downs in this case, right from the start. So many POIs.

I am sure that, as new members become more familiar with the TOS, they will understand that as non-POIs at the time neither the foster parents nor the bio parents were allowed to be sleuthed back then. :)
 
I am really glad to hear that the older threads are being read. There have been so many ups and downs in this case, right from the start. So many POIs.

I am sure that, as new members become more familiar with the TOS, they will understand that as non-POIs at the time neither the foster parents nor the bio parents were allowed to be sleuthed back then. :)

As a new person I am still trying to get my head around the POI thing. So if their seems to be something glaringly obvious eg currently the FFC timeline, could no one back at the start mention the inconsistencies, if that info was available? No so much in a it must be her kind of way, but more has anyone noticed the discrepancy. It seems to hinder everyone's ability to discuss everything as a whole
 
Speculation follows...

I don't know, but maybe the FFC isn't a naturally maternal woman. Is she someone who has tried to be motherly - would love to be seen as motherly - but by comparison to the MFC (perhaps also by comparison to her friends, her sister, her brothers etc), doesn't have the same connection with kids, and just doesn't find parenting naturally. I know of people like that, they just don't have it. Not something to be ashamed of, in and of itself.

I also get the sense she is adept at seeming to be emotional, or giving the impression of being distraught. That might be a stretch as I don't know her, but thats the feeling I get.

It's been discussed on this site that she has a way of controlling the narrative, somewhat slanted to her being a great mother. Ive re-listened to a few interviews and with fresh ears, well, she just sounds a little manufactured. Perhaps she has had some acting experience over the years (though not necessarily an important thing), and can just - put it on (we all know these people) - whilst her husband, the MFC gives a very convincing sense of someone who is genuinely saddened by WT's disappearance. I hear him cry and lose the ability to get a sentence out - but always sounding genuine, gut wrenchingly so, whereas with her I hear someone more in control, someone who (potentially) artificially is winding herself up to sound appropriately saddened.

That's not to say I believe she doesn't have an emotional response to WT's disappearance. I don't discount that she loved him. But (potentially and IMO), WT died on her watch, and it is her regret and deep sorrow at his death might be something she resonates with when becoming emotional in interviews. I have seen tears dripping down her face in one silhouetted interview and I don't discount that there is a real grief response, but I cant help question whether it's coming from the same place that we all have feared - that William was abducted, and our/her question of where is he now? I think it's entirely plausible (to what degree I don't know) that she feels saddened by his loss, and for whatever part she played during those brief moments after the patio photographs, and this is what we see when she shows emotion.

I feel like it's possible that the FFC pined to be that maternal mother, and was potentially jealous of the MFC's natural connection with WT. And so, if some sort of disaster/accident/balcony fall befell the little guy, she couldn't reconcile that with her husband - and then thinking outwardly to her friend and family group, she may have thought - how would this reflect on her and her status as an attentive caring mother?

Could this be the motivation, in such a short space of time, whereby she decided to 'dispose' of WT, rather than face accusations of negligence or inattention? Did she have feelings of inadequacy against her husband, the man who by her and all reports got along so famously with WT.

It would explain why no Intel was gathered by he voice taps that GJ apparently placed in their car. The ruse after all would be against her husband as well. And to this day, it would explain why no recordings of conversations would have produced anything viable because she would be hiding it from everyone.

I don't know. This is all my own opinion obviously, but I cant help but feel that this might explain what might be the catalyst to a very dark serious of behaviours.

I haven't seen it discussed explicitly here, hence this thought bubble. And yes, this is all MOO. Just putting it out there.

She is of course an innocent party until proved otherwise.

Excellent post Ships. Great to hear different perspectives
 
Adoption in Australia of Australian-born citizens is rare but it does happen. In my job, I have seen it occur. A close friend of mine adopted three siblings (within the past 10 or so years) and the story is not dissimilar to that of WT and LT's experience. The only difference perhaps was that the biological parents (who are still together) continued to commit crimes (at one point resulting in an ankle bracelet on the BM), continued to take drugs (BF) and never were able to get organised enough for their children to return home (the children were found to be living in squalor prior to them being taken). Apparently both parents also had cognitive delays. Having said that, I have heard about the way in which FACS and the parents 'work together' to reduce visits by reporting every little inappropriate thing that would go on during those visits. I remember thinking, "those bio parents don't stand a chance against my highly-educated friend." My friend had embraced the children as 'her children' very early in the piece. It never sat right with me, but ultimately, due to a number of let-downs and disappointments, the children no longer show any interest in their biological parents. Perhaps the fast-tracking of the adoption in this case is what was needed for these kids to move on and forward.

Kinship care is very different though. I took in my cousins. I was very much a kinship carer, not a foster mum. There's all sorts of different circumstances. I don't think I'd be approved as a foster mum because my house is messy and small and I have fibro, but i love kids. I already babysat them and knew them and they just prefer to place kids with their family. I wanted my auntie to become stable again so they could go home. I can imagine the boy if he was 3 and I was perhaps rich & spoilt and older without experience, 24 7 day in day out, this FM might have not been up to it. The rules are very strict. You can't even go to the shops for a minute and leave them with the cleaning lady who has been with the family 10 years unless she has had a check and been approved. I did anyway but they could have been taken off me and put in residential care or with any stranger if the kids told the department. Other than that I did everything to make it so they would only stay with me or go home, I would just be too worried.

If she was cracking or she's crazy underneath IMO ...
 
Kinship care is very different though. I took in my cousins. I was very much a kinship carer, not a foster mum. There's all sorts of different circumstances. I don't think I'd be approved as a foster mum because my house is messy and small and I have fibro, but i love kids. I already babysat them and knew them and they just prefer to place kids with their family. I wanted my auntie to become stable again so they could go home. I can imagine the boy if he was 3 and I was perhaps rich & spoilt and older without experience, 24 7 day in day out, this FM might have not been up to it. The rules are very strict. You can't even go to the shops for a minute and leave them with the cleaning lady who has been with the family 10 years unless she has had a check and been approved. I did anyway but they could have been taken off me and put in residential care or with any stranger if the kids told the department. Other than that I did everything to make it so they would only stay with me or go home, I would just be too worried.

If she was cracking or she's crazy underneath IMO ...

We always wondered why BGM did not apply for kinship care. With first the daughter being fostered (with someone else), then William. Knowing that kinship care is the preferred way. But being a family court matter, we will never know why.

imo
 
We always wondered why BGM did not apply for kinship care. With first the daughter being fostered (with someone else), then William. Knowing that is the preferred way. But being a family court matter, we will never know why.

imo

That was one of my first thoughts and she must feel terrible but sometimes the grandparents don't have sufficient boundaries to follow department rules on contact and visits.

It can be really important for the parents to really let it sink in if there's addiction issues, that it's unacceptable how they're living. Imo

Edit. Sorry that's early on when the goal is to go home. But yes. Basically the grandparents prioritise their kids sometimes over the little ones.
 
That was one of my first thoughts and she must feel terrible but sometimes the grandparents don't have sufficient boundaries to follow department rules on contact and visits.

It can be really important for the parents to really let it sink in if there's addiction issues, that it's unacceptable how they're living. Imo

Edit. Sorry that's early on when the goal is to go home. But yes. Basically the grandparents prioritise their kids sometimes over the little ones.

I think that would be a tough one for a parent and grandparent. You would want to look after everyone. If emotions are taken out of it. The best choice might be to have the kids fostered, and grandparents efforts put in supporting the parent get better IMO. I see it that if a grandparent took in the grandkids and had to limit time with parent, that parent could spiral further out of control. One that's just one take on how things could go
 
I think that would be a tough one for a parent and grandparent. You would want to look after everyone. If emotions are taken out of it. The best choice might be to have the kids fostered, and grandparents efforts put in supporting the parent get better IMO. I see it that if a grandparent took in the grandkids and had to limit time with parent, that parent could spiral further out of control. One that's just one take on how things could go

There's usually intergenerational trauma too, so say grandma had a father who was an alcoholic, and learned to pacify them and be codependant, it's called enabling; often the grandparents need to stop "helping" the parents imo
 
Adoption in Australia of Australian-born citizens is rare but it does happen. In my job, I have seen it occur. A close friend of mine adopted three siblings (within the past 10 or so years) and the story is not dissimilar to that of WT and LT's experience. The only difference perhaps was that the biological parents (who are still together) continued to commit crimes (at one point resulting in an ankle bracelet on the BM), continued to take drugs (BF) and never were able to get organised enough for their children to return home (the children were found to be living in squalor prior to them being taken). Apparently both parents also had cognitive delays. Having said that, I have heard about the way in which FACS and the parents 'work together' to reduce visits by reporting every little inappropriate thing that would go on during those visits. I remember thinking, "those bio parents don't stand a chance against my highly-educated friend." My friend had embraced the children as 'her children' very early in the piece. It never sat right with me, but ultimately, due to a number of let-downs and disappointments, the children no longer show any interest in their biological parents. Perhaps the fast-tracking of the adoption in this case is what was needed for these kids to move on and forward.

BBM. Thats sad. Complete power imbalance hey (even if the right decision was made here).

William's mum was still showing up for regular visitation and functioning enough to care for her younger children so i doubt their situation was anywhere like the above.
 
As a new person I am still trying to get my head around the POI thing. So if their seems to be something glaringly obvious eg currently the FFC timeline, could no one back at the start mention the inconsistencies, if that info was available? No so much in a it must be her kind of way, but more has anyone noticed the discrepancy. It seems to hinder everyone's ability to discuss everything as a whole
I've not been part of this discussion but, in general on WS, you can certainly express opinions or speculate about evidence, timelines, what police mean in their statements, and so forth.

With regards to individuals, ie actual living humans who are out there in the world living their own lives, there are two important rules: Firstly, you can't suggest that someone, who hasn't been named as a suspect by LE, is or should be a suspect. It's not our job to point fingers at people who police haven't named or dropped heavy hints about. If the police are dropping hints, I tend to drop hints too, rather than outright accuse.

The other important rule concerns victims. The family of victims are also victims, they are deeply suffering, so it is especially not allowed to start online harassment by accusing them. It doesn't mean you have to swear they are not involved, it just means you don't go there unless LE go there first.

There are things you can post about if you believe a family member might be involved in a case: you can analyse other theories for holes, you can try to construct the exact timeline, and so on. But I think it's important to remember no-one on the internet really know who has or hasn't committed a crime, and I usually just sit on my hands and wait for developments.

JMO
 
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