Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

[LolaAngelina]

I still think FA is a hot contender.
I still think GO is a contender.
And I still want to hear from PS why he said the things that he said in the secret recordings in his house. (And what about the rest of the unheard tapes?)

There are also others that we don't know much about, like the guy who saw someone travelling on Batar Creek Road in a white vehicle, leaning over and pushing something down into the footwell on the passenger side.

There were a lot of people heard from/about at the inquest that cannot be dismissed. imo

Yes FA is still high on my list. The fact he hasn’t supplied an alibi or if he has it hasn’t been proven. Anna baker giving evidence that she heard a child scream in the direction of where FA lived (though she didn’t find out until years later he lived there). The fact FA lived in a van owned by his mate Geoff Owen who had previously or was about to do some work on fgm’s home. Could all be coincidences but he’s certainly not ruled out imo

 

[iiiii's]

I still think FA is a hot contender.
I still think GO is a contender.
And I still want to hear from PS why he said the things that he said in the secret recordings in his house. (And what about the rest of the unheard tapes?)

There are also others that we don't know much about, like the guy who saw someone travelling on Batar Creek Road in a white vehicle, leaning over and pushing something down into the footwell on the passenger side.

There were a lot of people heard from/about at the inquest that cannot be dismissed. imo

I agree, there are people on that list that are not cleared in my mind, but so far can't be placed at the scene. Those who were at the scene though who aren't cleared take precedence in my mind.

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree, there are people on that list that are not cleared in my mind, but so far can't be placed at the scene. Those who were at the scene though who aren't cleared take precedence in my mind.

And that will result in a Coronial open finding. If they cannot clear POIs, and they can't find any evidence.

 

[Couldbe]

JMO

- Would ANY amount of money elicit finding William?

- Is it the crime that someone wants to take to their grave?

- Is it one more crime that would be added to someone already serving time and money wouldn't serve any purpose?

$1 million NSW Government reward announced for the return on William Tyrrell - NSW Police Public Site
“This is a unique reward, it does not require the charge and conviction of any person(s), it relates to the recovery of William Tyrrell.
“By offering a reward at this point in the investigation, we are appealing directly to those who know something but have not previously been inclined to assist.”

 

[SLouTh]

- Is it one more crime that would be added to someone already serving time and money wouldn't serve any purpose?

The money could certainly make life on ”the inside” much more pleasant ….
Prisoners have a kiosk and shop (in QlD Jails) and can have certain items in their cells etc (One could spend up to $1000/week plus a telephone credit up to $300 / week) It would just mean topping up the Trust Account weekly )

Money and buying things in jail​

While in jail you can hold a personal prison trust account of up to $1000. You can use this to buy permitted items. In addition you can hold up to $300 in your telephone account to make personal phone calls.

You can use your prison trust account to buy items from the prisoners’ canteen including food items and certain recreational items (such as art, hobby and educational materials) or to rent a TV set directly from the prison.

With permission, you may also be able to buy certain items not available from the prisoners’ canteen from an approved outside source. This includes underwear, magazines, greeting cards, recorded music, footwear, and electrical goods; although you are not allowed to buy some items such as DVDs, DVD players, or electronic game consoles.

You may also have to use money in your prison trust account to pay for items of prison property you intentionally break while in prison, or you may have to make payments to a victim under the criminal injury compensation scheme.

You will be given any remaining money in your trust fund when you are discharged from prison.

Daily life in prison

Daily life in prison, including, visitors, education, employment, clothing, and mail and telephone access.

www.qld.gov.au

 

[iiiii's]

JMO

- Would ANY amount of money elicit finding William?

- Is it the crime that someone wants to take to their grave?

- Is it one more crime that would be added to someone already serving time and money wouldn't serve any purpose?

$1 million NSW Government reward announced for the return on William Tyrrell - NSW Police Public Site
“This is a unique reward, it does not require the charge and conviction of any person(s), it relates to the recovery of William Tyrrell.
“By offering a reward at this point in the investigation, we are appealing directly to those who know something but have not previously been inclined to assist.”

The money could certainly make life on ”the inside” much more pleasant ….
Prisoners have a kiosk and shop (in QlD Jails) and can have certain items in their cells etc (One could spend up to $1000/week plus a telephone credit up to $300 / week) It would just mean topping up the Trust Account weekly )

Money and buying things in jail​

While in jail you can hold a personal prison trust account of up to $1000. You can use this to buy permitted items. In addition you can hold up to $300 in your telephone account to make personal phone calls.

You can use your prison trust account to buy items from the prisoners’ canteen including food items and certain recreational items (such as art, hobby and educational materials) or to rent a TV set directly from the prison.

With permission, you may also be able to buy certain items not available from the prisoners’ canteen from an approved outside source. This includes underwear, magazines, greeting cards, recorded music, footwear, and electrical goods; although you are not allowed to buy some items such as DVDs, DVD players, or electronic game consoles.

You may also have to use money in your prison trust account to pay for items of prison property you intentionally break while in prison, or you may have to make payments to a victim under the criminal injury compensation scheme.

You will be given any remaining money in your trust fund when you are discharged from prison.

Daily life in prison

Daily life in prison, including, visitors, education, employment, clothing, and mail and telephone access.

www.qld.gov.au

I'm pretty sure that the reward to produce remains does not apply to the perp, just those who have knowledge of. Even if they did collect it, it would highly agitate most of the prison population and your life wouldn't be worth living. To be inside for CSA does not make you popular and child murder could make you a dead man walking, IMO.

 

[SLouTh]

I'm pretty sure that the reward to produce remains does not apply to the perp, just those who have knowledge of. Even if they did collect it, it would highly agitate most of the prison population and your life wouldn't be worth living. To be inside for CSA does not make you popular and child murder could make you a dead man walking, IMO.

Very true … it was just a hypothetical to the rhetorical question posed …

But it is possible that another criminal may have knowledge of the crime without being the perpetrator him / herself….

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

JMO

- Would ANY amount of money elicit finding William?

- Is it the crime that someone wants to take to their grave?

- Is it one more crime that would be added to someone already serving time and money wouldn't serve any purpose?

$1 million NSW Government reward announced for the return on William Tyrrell - NSW Police Public Site
“This is a unique reward, it does not require the charge and conviction of any person(s), it relates to the recovery of William Tyrrell.
“By offering a reward at this point in the investigation, we are appealing directly to those who know something but have not previously been inclined to assist.”

If FA did this crime, the only potential witness to William's whereabouts is now deceased (RP).
If William lost himself, no-one else would know where he was.
If it is a one-person crime, there may be no-one who knows what that person did with William.

And there are plenty of articles out there that say rewards don't usually work. Very few rewards are claimed VS the amount of rewards that are offered.

But it was something the police/govt had to offer, on the off chance that it would be successful. imo

 

[SLouTh]

If FA did this crime, the only potential witness to William's whereabouts is now deceased (RP).

If it is a one-person crime, there may be no-one who knows what that person did with William.

It is possible that FA did the crime as a one person crime, without RP as a witness…

RP has a Police confirmed alibi for that day, from 09:00hrs - 15:00hrs, at dialysis in Port Mac.

It is possible that FA had the use of RP’s car that day, and travelled via back roads… as RP’s car wasn’t captured on the main highway that day via CCTV …

And if William is ever found it’s still possible that there could be DNA evidence of FA, if he was the perpetrator, possibly not needing a witness…??

The last we heard was that he still didn’t have an alibi for that day …


Hospital records reveal Mr Porter was at Port Macquarie for dialysis between 9am and 3pm that day and there are no traffic cameras on the main route between his home and the hospital.

————————

The traffic camera images reveal Mr Porter’s car was moving around the region on the days before and after William vanished but September 12 - the day William vanished - the car did not appear on any traffic cameras.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/nsw-coroner-releases-trove-of-william-tyrrell-investigation-documents/news-story/507ac59c1d5f9734a0f2aa4c747a60aa

And

“I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.

————————

A key figure (FA) in the William Tyrrell case has been unable to provide police with an alibi for the day of the boy’s disappearance

NO ALIBI: Shock twist in investigation into missing toddler William Tyrrell

A convicted pedophile cannot find anyone to vouch for his whereabouts on the day of William Tyrrell’s disappearance, a bombshell 7NEWS investigation has revealed.

7news.com.au

 

[SouthAussie]

It is possible that FA did the crime as a one person crime, without RP as a witness…

RP has a Police confirmed alibi for that day, from 09:00hrs - 15:00hrs, at dialysis in Port Mac.

It is possible that FA had the use of RP’s car that day, and travelled via back roads… as RP’s car wasn’t captured on the main highway that day via CCTV …

And if William is ever found it’s still possible that there could be DNA evidence of FA, if he was the perpetrator, possibly not needing a witness…??

The last we heard was that he still didn’t have an alibi for that day …


Hospital records reveal Mr Porter was at Port Macquarie for dialysis between 9am and 3pm that day and there are no traffic cameras on the main route between his home and the hospital.

————————

The traffic camera images reveal Mr Porter’s car was moving around the region on the days before and after William vanished but September 12 - the day William vanished - the car did not appear on any traffic cameras.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/nsw-coroner-releases-trove-of-william-tyrrell-investigation-documents/news-story/507ac59c1d5f9734a0f2aa4c747a60aa

And

“I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.

————————

A key figure (FA) in the William Tyrrell case has been unable to provide police with an alibi for the day of the boy’s disappearance

NO ALIBI: Shock twist in investigation into missing toddler William Tyrrell

A convicted pedophile cannot find anyone to vouch for his whereabouts on the day of William Tyrrell’s disappearance, a bombshell 7NEWS investigation has revealed.

7news.com.au

Yes, I was more thinking of RP's deathbed confession, where he said he took FA and William 300km north. Perhaps on the day following William's disappearance. When FA's phone was off for 3 days and his movements couldn't be tracked by mobile phone tower records.


ETA: Adding link, took me a while to find it, it is from the 7News Investigates show ... FA's phone showed no movement for 3 days. He had got his pension the day before William disappeared, stayed at RP's place that night, says he was in Wauchope when William disappeared. Yet his phone showed no movement for 3 days.
Being a career criminal and pedo, I believe he would be very aware of phone tracking.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #57

Some notes about Part 2, 7News Investigates: The Disappearance of William Tyrrell (link goes to 7Plus which only works if you have an account and are in Australia, I think): Former friend of FA, "Steve": - FA got his pension on Thursday 11 Sep 2014 (the day before William went missing) and...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Warshawski]

It's at the end of a dead end street, there would be hardly any traffic, and with grass and shrubbery across the road at that time. Probably the safest place to ride their bikes in that neighbourhood.

And FM and FGM were out there with them.

View attachment 418456
Google maps

i understand that SA - and I also find the driveway very steep & unsafe. I’d rather take them to ride on the side of the quiet road, as opposed to careering down that driveway, but others are entitled to think differently of course.

I am wondering though - isn’t there another driveway ? To a closed in garage ?

Maybe that‘s not as steep, and perhaps that’s where they were bike riding

 

[Warshawski]

The sudden hault was due to Covid, nothing more, nothing less IMO. Some things were changed in court the day before from memory due to Covid precautions.

I think you'll find that this was the new witness, so nothing to do with the FFC.

A boy’s scream was heard coming from bushland near where Frank Abbott lived shortly after three-year-old William Tyrrell went missing in 2014, an inquest into his disappearance has heard.

Anna Baker said she was tending to strawberries on her Herons Creek property on the NSW mid-north coast in September 2014 when she heard a child scream.

William Tyrrell inquest: woman says she heard boy scream in bushland near Herons Creek

Anna Baker later reported the scream to police after learning convicted criminal Frank Abbott lived nearby at the time

www.theguardian.com

Hello dr, I’m not disputing the COVID influence. The thing that has interested me since that time was the comment that included the words ‘ someone previously unknown / unspoken to’ .

 

[SouthAussie]

Hello dr, I’m not disputing the COVID influence. The thing that has interested me since that time was the comment that included the words ‘ someone previously unknown / unspoken to’ .

Anna Baker was previously unknown. She gave testimony at the inquest on 6th Oct, two days before it ended. With David Laidlaw being the last person to give evidence on the 7th Oct, before the inquest ended the next day due to Covid.

"as a result of evidence presented, a previously unknown witness has come forward & is talking with Police " Link

She wouldn't have known FA was a POI until the inquest started, and people started giving testimony about him ... none of us knew.

She didn't know that FA lived on the bush block where she heard the little boy scream as if he was hurt. It is in the link drsleuth provided.

Once drsleuth said it was Anna Baker, it was easy to piece it together.
.

 

[deugirtni]

Hello dr, I’m not disputing the COVID influence. The thing that has interested me since that time was the comment that included the words ‘ someone previously unknown / unspoken to’ .

Anna Baker was previously unknown. She gave testimony at the inquest on 6th Oct, two days before it ended. With David Laidlaw being the last person to give evidence on the 7th Oct, before the inquest ended the next day due to Covid.

"as a result of evidence presented, a previously unknown witness has come forward & is talking with Police " Link

She wouldn't have known FA was a POI until the inquest started, and people started giving testimony about him ... none of us knew.

She didn't know that FA lived on the bush block where she heard the little boy scream as if he was hurt. It is in the link drsleuth provided.

Once drsleuth said it was Anna Baker, it was easy to piece it together.
.

Anna Baker testified at the inquest in October 2020, however Anna Baker reportedly came forward in 2018, which was well before the inquest having ever commenced. So it doesn't wash that Craddock said at the final day of the third tranche of the inquest in March 2020 when they stopped due to Covid, that “as a consequence of evidence we have called here, there has already been a witness who we had no idea about who has come forward and will be speaking to police”. (quoted by Lia Harris tweet during inquest March 2020)

She told the inquest on Tuesday she was tending to her strawberries when she heard the scream and immediately stood straight up, believing it was a male child.

But she did not think it was related to William, and did not tell the police until 2018 when a friend told her Abbott was living just across the paddock.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrrell-eyewitnesses-may-have-false-memories-expert-says/news-story/a9139cd028cad26f6bbd4b71d4395ff9

https://twitter.com/x/status/1240055653780975616

 

[SouthAussie]

Anna Baker testified at the inquest in October 2020, however Anna Baker reportedly came forward in 2018, which was well before the inquest having ever commenced. So it doesn't wash that Craddock said at the final day of the third tranche of the inquest in March 2020 when they stopped due to Covid, that “as a consequence of evidence we have called here, there has already been a witness who we had no idea about who has come forward and will be speaking to police”. (quoted by Lia Harris tweet during inquest March 2020)

She told the inquest on Tuesday she was tending to her strawberries when she heard the scream and immediately stood straight up, believing it was a male child.

But she did not think it was related to William, and did not tell the police until 2018 when a friend told her Abbott was living just across the paddock.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrrell-eyewitnesses-may-have-false-memories-expert-says/news-story/a9139cd028cad26f6bbd4b71d4395ff9

https://twitter.com/x/status/1240055653780975616

Thanks for the links. I couldn't find them last night, too tired. And the member that I responded to hadn't provided any links.

Our inquest attenders have always said that they are not sure, if they weren't sure.
So, perhaps AB was someone whose 2018 report was not contained in the brief and Craddock/the Coroner didn't know about her?

Testimony about Abbott seemed to start in March 2020, from what I can quickly find (Link) , which was when the witness came forward, according to your link.

Perhaps she was introduced at the inquest as that person.

Whatever child screamed like they were in pain from the direction of the bush block that FA resided on - I wonder if they ever determined who that was.

I did see AB's testimony where she said she thought it was a boy that screamed "Baker told the coroner, Harriet Grahame, she was “100%” certain it was a boy’s scream."
She stood and listened, but there was silence (presumably no crying or anything else that she could hear). Link
.

 

[iiiii's]

Anna Baker testified at the inquest in October 2020, however Anna Baker reportedly came forward in 2018, which was well before the inquest having ever commenced. So it doesn't wash that Craddock said at the final day of the third tranche of the inquest in March 2020 when they stopped due to Covid, that “as a consequence of evidence we have called here, there has already been a witness who we had no idea about who has come forward and will be speaking to police”. (quoted by Lia Harris tweet during inquest March 2020)

She told the inquest on Tuesday she was tending to her strawberries when she heard the scream and immediately stood straight up, believing it was a male child.

But she did not think it was related to William, and did not tell the police until 2018 when a friend told her Abbott was living just across the paddock.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/william-tyrrell-eyewitnesses-may-have-false-memories-expert-says/news-story/a9139cd028cad26f6bbd4b71d4395ff9

https://twitter.com/x/status/1240055653780975616

Just wondering what year FA was convicted for his current incarceration? The reason I ask is it's interesting to me the reasons people come forward years after the event realising they may have relevant information to an investigation and when a POi's identity is hidden if it is preventing further information coming forward that might be relevant.

The idea that FA is responsible for WT's disappearance is quite unbearable to me.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Thanks for the links. I couldn't find them last night, too tired. And the member that I responded to hadn't provided any links.

Our inquest attenders have always said that they are not sure, if they weren't sure.
So, perhaps AB was someone whose 2018 report was not contained in the brief and Craddock/the Coroner didn't know about her?

Testimony about Abbott seemed to start in March 2020, from what I can quickly find (Link) , which was when the witness came forward, according to your link.

Perhaps she was introduced at the inquest as that person.

Whatever child screamed like they were in pain from the direction of the bush block that FA resided on - I wonder if they ever determined who that was.

I did see AB's testimony where she said she thought it was a boy that screamed "Baker told the coroner, Harriet Grahame, she was “100%” certain it was a boy’s scream."
She stood and listened, but there was silence (presumably no crying or anything else that she could hear). Link
.

I don't see how someone can be 100% certain they heard a "boys" scream. Not saying she didn't hear a scream. But children's screams tend to have a similar tone regardless of gender. And then when you add she heard it from a distance. I wonder if she didn't know a little boy was missing from that general area, would she still have thought it was a boys scream.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just wondering what year FA was convicted for his current incarceration?

He was charged (and jailed) with those offences in 2017. This DT article doesn't state when the actual conviction happened.

Just to add, in late 2016 he was acquitted of sexual assault against a young girl. Then "less than a year later" (according to the DT article) he was charged with the other sexual offences - against the 3 young children, two boys and a girl.

 

[JLZ]

I don't see how someone can be 100% certain they heard a "boys" scream. Not saying she didn't hear a scream. But children's screams tend to have a similar tone regardless of gender. And then when you add she heard it from a distance. I wonder if she didn't know a little boy was missing from that general area, would she still have thought it was a boys scream.

Or how she remembers it was 13 September, if she didn't connect it with William until years later?

 

[iiiii's]

He was charged (and jailed) with those offences in 2017. This DT article doesn't state when the actual conviction happened.

Just to add, in late 2016 he was acquitted of sexual assault against a young girl. Then "less than a year later" (according to the DT article) he was charged with the other sexual offences - against the 3 young children, two boys and a girl.

Thank you. So I imagine that after his conviction, people in the community knew of his offences and some type of conversation ensued between AB with a friend who was able to point out that FA was her neighbour. She then remembered what she heard when WT disappeared and realised it could be relevant to WT's investigation and reported that to police. I have no problem with that. I just check to see what was in the public domain at the time people come forward. Like Richard Donahue's later statements, or RC's statements, it can be difficult to know whether people experienced certain events at the time or if their memories are conflated with more information they have acquired over the years. Besides countless articles since WT disappeared I would have liked all the witnesses to have been asked if they were following the case in msm, social media, podcasts etc.