Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

[Shadow@light]

William was 3½ years old. Perfectly capable of pulling down a pair of pullups and taking them off.
FD did not say he was annoyed. Somebody dreamed that up.

Allowing and encouraging a child to do reasonable things for themselves is how a parent teaches independence. Gradually prepares them for the years when they reach maturity and need to care for themselves.

As a child reaches each stage, their capabilities grow, and you let them do things for themselves.
No child is going to ever be independent if a parent doesn't incrementally pass tasks onto the child.

I agree SouthAussie, my child when three years( on the Autism Spectrum but found out six months later he were on the Autism Spectrum) I was teaching him to take off/ or put on his pullups which was for night time) or his undies putting them in required places, bin or laundry basket and wash hands . I also was toilet training him and put on his clothes teaching him independence. He got grumpy like William, it could be trying but we got there. Mind you, it was a while before he learned to take of Pants when he got to the Bathroom not before, which at times be a face palm when we had visitors the sight of a little bottom running to the bathroom. We got there. There maybe grumpy moments with William regarding pull ups that morning IMO or getting dressed but that is children be annoying, battle of the wills and giving into the child demands , such no singlet. But children learn independence step but step.

 

[SouthAussie]

Or how she remembers it was 13 September, if she didn't connect it with William until years later?

Perhaps that day was a memorable day for her, for some other reason. And it led to her remembrance of the date.

Maybe it was her 50th birthday, or her child's 20th birthday (I have no idea how old AB is, just examples).
Maybe she remembers she was tending her strawberry patch that afternoon - when she heard the scream - because she was going to make a strawberry tart for a party.

Who knows. We don't have that level of detail in the brief mentions of AB's testimony. But it doesn't mean that AB was inaccurate, or accurate. It was her impression and the Coroner evidently thought it was important and genuine enough to have her testify at the inquest .... even if that testimony was 6 months after the testimony about FA had occurred. imo
.

 

[SouthAussie]

There is one more thing that I want to mention about FA. I am not sure if everyone is aware of this fact.
Something (else) that adds to the relevancy of FA as a stand-out POI.

FA had a 3 year old son who died. We don't know any of the details about that death, but an inquest was held whenever that happened.
Then later, Harriet Grahame (Coroner investigating William's case) sealed that file citing "confidentiality of the police investigation". Link

"The documentary revealed that Abbott’s son died when he was three – with an inquest into the boy’s death sealed by the NSW coroner." Link

There is a lot of discussion about this, way back in the threads.

 

[SLouTh]

From SA’s Post above and JLZ’s Post:
(Sorry unable to add quotes in edit)

Or how she remembers it was 13 September, if she didn't connect it with William until years later?

Perhaps that day was a memorable day for her, for some other reason. And it led to her remembrance of the date.

—————————

AB helped search for William the day before she heard the scream ….

That may be why it was so significant when the “penny dropped” ?

It is possible that it was reported to Crime-stoppers??? At the time…. But became lost in the plethora of reports????


Discussed earlier with this link:

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #56'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #56

 

[JLZ]

From SA’s Post above and JLZ’s Post:
(Sorry unable to add quotes in edit)

Or how she remembers it was 13 September, if she didn't connect it with William until years later?

Perhaps that day was a memorable day for her, for some other reason. And it led to her remembrance of the date.

—————————

AB helped search for William the day before she heard the scream ….

That may be why it was so significant when the “penny dropped” ?

It is possible that it was reported to Crime-stoppers??? At the time…. But became lost in the plethora of reports????


Discussed earlier with this link:

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #56'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #56

The reverse could also be argued. If she helped with the search on Friday, and yet didn't then think that the scream could have been William, it's more even more likely that she's mistaken about it having been 13th September.

 

[SLouTh]

The reverse could also be argued. If she helped with the search on Friday, and yet didn't then think that the scream could have been William, it's more even more likely that she's mistaken about it having been 13th September.

Yes, I remember thinking the same at the time.. and that is why I remembered her testimony so well ….

If she had just spent the day before searching for W and heard a scream the next day, one could ask why she didn’t call the Police on 000 at the time?

But hindsight is a marvellous thing ..…

IMO

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks for the links. I couldn't find them last night, too tired. And the member that I responded to hadn't provided any links.

Our inquest attenders have always said that they are not sure, if they weren't sure.
So, perhaps AB was someone whose 2018 report was not contained in the brief and Craddock/the Coroner didn't know about her?

Testimony about Abbott seemed to start in March 2020, from what I can quickly find (Link) , which was when the witness came forward, according to your link.

Perhaps she was introduced at the inquest as that person.

Whatever child screamed like they were in pain from the direction of the bush block that FA resided on - I wonder if they ever determined who that was.

I did see AB's testimony where she said she thought it was a boy that screamed "Baker told the coroner, Harriet Grahame, she was “100%” certain it was a boy’s scream."
She stood and listened, but there was silence (presumably no crying or anything else that she could hear). Link
.

I'm considering that Craddock said this on the final day of the inquest prior to stopping for Covid, and his language:

“as a consequence of evidence we have called here, there has already been a witness who we had no idea about who has come forward and will be speaking to police”.

Particular emphasis on 'will be' speaking to police. Craddock is an educated, credentialed professional, and therefore, my belief is that he knows the English language pretty well, and he is saying it as something that will be happening - as in - the future, not something that happened years earlier and was already provided testimony at inquest.

eta: imo, of course.

 

[deugirtni]

Just wondering what year FA was convicted for his current incarceration? The reason I ask is it's interesting to me the reasons people come forward years after the event realising they may have relevant information to an investigation and when a POi's identity is hidden if it is preventing further information coming forward that might be relevant.

The idea that FA is responsible for WT's disappearance is quite unbearable to me.

Jumping off your post, it is an interesting concept that people may not come forward with some 'seemingly' unrelated detail, when they don't know their information is relevant, when/if a POI's identity is hidden. I have often wondered how much information has been held back, and/or brushed off, and/or forgotten, that could have potentially helped put puzzle pieces together in the WT case, if not for the fosters' names and faces being hidden from the public.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm considering that Craddock said this on the final day of the inquest prior to stopping for Covid, and his language:

“as a consequence of evidence we have called here, there has already been a witness who we had no idea about who has come forward and will be speaking to police”.

Particular emphasis on 'will be' speaking to police. Craddock is an educated, credentialed professional, and therefore, my belief is that he knows the English language pretty well, and he is saying it as something that will be happening - as in - the future, not something that happened years earlier and was already provided testimony at inquest.

eta: imo, of course.

Sorry, too late to edit.. but..

ETA: my post stands, except that Anna Baker's testimony on the stand itself was not presented until the next/final tranche held in October 2020, however her testimony, per the MSM article I posted above, included that she had reported to police in 2018. So one could hardly call that a witness who they had no idea about, who has come forward, and 'will be' speaking to police. imo.

 

[Lemony]

Sorry, too late to edit.. but..

ETA: my post stands, except that Anna Baker's testimony on the stand itself was not presented until the next/final tranche held in October 2020, however her testimony, per the MSM article I posted above, included that she had reported to police in 2018. So one could hardly call that a witness who they had no idea about, who has come forward, and 'will be' speaking to police. imo.

It's possible that she reported to Crime Stoppers, not directly to police, and her information took some time to filter through to the Strike Force IMO.

 

[deugirtni]

It's possible that she reported to Crime Stoppers, not directly to police, and her information took some time to filter through to the Strike Force IMO.

I would imagine they may have said she'd reported to Crimestoppers, as opposed to saying she'd reported to police...?? jmo. I would think that either way, there would've been a big 'to-do' in the news media, if the woman testified she'd contacted either police or CS in 2018 and it had never been followed up on. jmo on that as well.

In any case, the police investigation seems to have clearly moved on from FA and the POIs known about at that time, and had instead been focusing on FM since some time ago.

 

[LolaAngelina]

I would imagine they may have said she'd reported to Crimestoppers, as opposed to saying she'd reported to police...?? jmo. I would think that either way, there would've been a big 'to-do' in the news media, if the woman testified she'd contacted either police or CS in 2018 and it had never been followed up on. jmo on that as well.

In any case, the police investigation seems to have clearly moved on from FA and the POIs known about at that time, and had instead been focusing on FM since some time ago.

We have no idea if they have moved on from FA at all. He didn’t provide an alibi, so he would still be on their list. They can say whatever they like to the public (ie - this is our POI) and be investigating someone else altogether.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

"William, then aged three, went missing from the backyard of his grandmother’s home in Kendall, on the state's mid-north coast, on September 12, 2014"

William Tyrrell: ‘One million reasons’ to come forward over toddler’s abduction

Almost two years on from NSW toddler William Tyrrell’s disappearance, police are investigating 600 pe...

www.9news.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

I have often wondered how much information has been held back, and/or brushed off, and/or forgotten, that could have potentially helped put puzzle pieces together in the WT case, if not for the fosters' names and faces being hidden from the public.

Yes, a former police chief has described how strict laws around the foster care system hampered the search for missing three-year-old William Tyrrell.


Ex-NSW Deputy Police Commissioner Nick Kaldas has described how the tough laws hindered police and raised “scepticism” in the community.

It made it very difficult for the initial investigative police holding press conferences and briefings because they were tiptoeing around the issue because of privacy reasons and legal reasons and it made them look like they weren’t telling the whole story,” he said.

Snip…

It was difficult to tell the truth about William’s status because he had foster parents, he had biological parents, he had Family and Children’s Services involved,” Mr Kaldas said.

“And they also had an outside agency partly caring for him as well.

“And then you had the police involved, so this poor little boy was lost in and amongst all of that and his message and his story wasn’t able to be told properly.”

Which is very sad, IMO, and most likely contributed to William’s detriment ..and why we still haven’t found him all of these years later ..

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/television/is-the-truth-about-william-tyrrell-about-to-be-revealed/news-story/3eb7a3821442914b07c91b177ab01b98

Perhaps in the future, if there is a William’s Legacy, it may become a part of being able to have those laws changed, so that all children are treated equally, if they go missing, regardless of situation … especially as the “window of a good outcome” is so short in children, compared to that of an adult.

All IMO

 

[SLouTh]

I have often wondered how much information has been held back, and/or brushed off, and/or forgotten, that could have potentially helped put puzzle pieces together in the WT case, if not for the fosters' names and faces being hidden from the public.

I think the Coroner releasing certain information along with the Mac Donald’s CCTV Footage and the taped Police Interviews, with the faces blurred out, were to assist with trying to jog the public‘s memory, in case they had seen something, but didn’t realise it‘s significance!!
IMO

Chilling new images of William Tyrrell with his foster family released

The never-before-seen pictures show the toddler about to have dinner with his foster family, only hours before he vanished.

7news.com.au

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/william-tyrrells-disappearance-inquest-shown-police-video/video/2176dd43c10dddf5fde3a037171f7116

William Tyrrell's foster mother filmed retracing her steps with police

William Tyrrell's foster mother describes how she drove all the way to a busy road before accepting the three-year-old was gone.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Warshawski]

You know, I wish we had "Pull Ups" in my day. Being a boys mother, the 'old wives tale' was that if your boy doesn't stop wetting the bed at 2yo it won't happen until he's 7yo. I never believed this - but it was true.

I would have gladly have used pull ups every night instead of washing sheets and protectors every day for up to 7 years.

Ha Ha - SLeep - the joys (?) of mothering eh.
I thought back to my Mum & was so appreciative that I had a washing machine!

 

[SLouTh]

It's possible that she reported to Crime Stoppers, not directly to police, and her information took some time to filter through to the Strike Force IMO.

Agree with this possibility, that she may have indeed contacted Crime-stoppers ….

However, if this was the case, then not only do they possibly need an inquiry into the investigation,(I am not saying they do, at this stage), but a major inquiry is needed into how Crimestoppers is operated ..and what information is passed on to Police etc …

Personally, I would never use Crime-stoppers again, for important information to be passed on to Police … A local Police Sergeant also told me the same .. He said just contact Police directly …

IMO

 

[Warshawski]

FA was really strongly pushed (at least by media) to be the person investigators were digging into, and perhaps ‘closing in on’, until the hard steer towards FFC.
Surely there must have been SOME sort of evidence that completely changed the direction of the investigation….. right?

i agree Cooper - mind you I didn’t ever really buy into the FA buzz. I think he just enjoys his ‘notoriety’ and does his best to keep the scaremongering going.

I’m convinced someone totally New came forward at the end of the Inquest. ( maybe way off as I seem to be alone on that thought as I’ve posted the media links here previously to no interest)

 

[SLouTh]

So does that mean you heard his evidence but can't repeat it or that he gave his evidence under an alias? If you have the time, are you able to share what he said in court, please?

I found Dr Sleuth Post in Thread # 55

From Dr Sleuth below …..


From a protected witness: who FA worked for


Described FA " as sharp as a tact"


Said around 2013/2014 that he owned a white ute that was a ford courier 1998 model.


An occasion in 2013/2014 detectives talking to FA about an approach to a child at Johns River , he replied yes. He said " I went out to take out a birthday card & take him to lunch" Were asking him about anyone with a white ute. FA said he didn't know anyone & witness though odd as he had a white ute.


Mr Craddock than asked him if that was the first time he thought something a bit suss? He replied he didn't know if it was coming from Danny ( FA & Danny fought like cats & dogs according to this witness)


Mr Craddock than went on to say, as you got to know FA a bit better did he start telling you stories . The witness said he used to take FA to Mudgee , brother down there ( ?FA's ) Had lots of jobs at Mudgee


Mr Craddock than asked if FA told him about murder back in 1965 & he said couple of blokes borrowed his car & raped a girl, she had an epileptic fit & died

. The witness didn't believe the story & thought it rubbish.


He said FA drove without a license , he used to drive me around " I'd say I'll drink, you drive"


He never saw FA drink more than 1 beer. The coroner asked if he ever saw him drunk & he replied :" Never, he said it ruined your eating"

Did you drive him around?, "Absolutely"


He used to drive him to Wauchope to visit daughter.


You know he didn't have a license? FA said " Can't take away what you haven't got"


Did Danny have Camry's? Witness " Yeah maroon & green "


FA drive these? Witness "Didn't see"


Did he tell you he had driven them? Witness "Yes"


Did he tell you about catching train from Kendall & leaving car there so he could get home again ( sorry don't have answer written down but I think it was yes

)


This witness had an illness for about 3 months around 7/14 to 10/14 where they were " out of action work wise"


Witness used to give FA & RP his credit card to purchase food for animals.


Witness ran into RP down at North Haven & said " Where's FA" & RP replied " He's locked up


Witness started getting calls from FA when he was locked up . FA got out of jail ( bail ) & moved to Misty Way which was owned by this witnesses mate.


Some time this witness got out of jail the witness took FA to Blue Mountains & Mudgee to see brother.


Mr Craddock asked the witness if he saw a change in him? Witness " He told me some allegation & that Danny was behind it"


Mr Craddock asked if somewhere around 2014/2015 did you have a need for someone to drive your wife up to Tamworth ? Witness " No she drove him & FA went along"


Mr Craddock asked any particular reason? Witness " Son had a trailer that needed fixing & getting back"


ON that trip FA made sexually inappropriate comments/ conversation with step sons partner .


Coroner asked " What did you think about that? " Witness replied " he denied it "


He was than asked if FA ever borrowed the witnesses vehicles, including work vehicles & the witness replied " yes, a white Nissan Navara 2010, Ford Courier.

Witness also had a Monaro & wife had blue Subaru.


This witness was than asked about a person called Tony Brown ( deceased ) who FA got pink slips for this witnesses cars

on the 12/9/14 this witness said he was across the RD from the Kew Country Club talking to people named Beryl & Ross, he was driving his Monaro ( don't know colour)

They talked about all the cop cars etc & though may have been a drug bust etc

He said the white ute was at Herron Creek that day

The Ford Courier ute was work vehicle, used to collect wood / carry diesel etc. Said ute was at work site all the time .

He used the Navara to get to work & Monaro for leisure.

When FA was in Grafton ( 2016) witness had jail phone contact with FA ( said he spoke more to FA when he was in Nowra jail )

We were played an audio tape from 22/8/2017

When the witness asked why he was in Jail, FA said he was a POI in WT case & was ? moved to Nowra due to threats made ( ? from TJ)

The witness asked FA where he was the day WT disappeared & he said Wauchope

Than another call ( ? when ) where FA told the witness that the cops took him to Newscastle for interview & he refused

The witness said to FA " you gotta ask yourself why kids said made statement ( about suitcase )

FA " I've got all these statements, I've you've got the evidence , charge me"

A call was than played from 19/2/2020

The witness eventually went to see FA in person where he was handed a piece of paper, 3 inch x 1 inch from FA with 2 names written on it. He gave that to police ( we were not told the names )

He was asked by the BIO family's barrister Swift he ever saw TJ with FA & he replied " I don't know who TJ is "


Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

 

[Warshawski]

I agree, there are people on that list that are not cleared in my mind, but so far can't be placed at the scene. Those who were at the scene though who aren't cleared take precedence in my mind.

The annoying fact for me is that I’m not privy to evidence to place anyone anywhere, or to rule anyone in or out!

All we have to go on are media reports - the reporting of which has been at the whim or otherwise of the approving ‘medium’.

From day dot it’s been a debacle. A little boy is missing - but it has to be hidden due to some unrealistic bureaucratic requirement!

That‘s what there should be an investigation into. .. oh - problem is - that requires honesty & care from our Government. Hands Up eh ! Or Run Away !

I’ll be honest, as time has gone on, the Sleuthing of this awful situation has become crushingly useless for me. I’ve recently come back because my heart aches for answers, but we are no further than we were years ago.

Bless you, individually, for your diligence & efforts to keep going in the quest for answers for little William, and most importantly I think for his sister.
She was a little girl, and the older sister - who I’m thinking possibly saw herself as his ‘protector’ ( just speaking from personal experience) who’s suddenly in a situation where her little brother is no longer there. I wonder how much consideration was given to her plight. I wonder how quickly the powers of FACS managed to muster adequate professional emotional & mental health support for her.