Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard, Kendall (NSW), Sept 2014 #76

[Megnut]

I just find it impossible to believe that she wouldn't call an ambulance for a genuine accident.

Even if William was running away from her trying to smack him or something and he fell off the balcony...to me...that is still an accident that she is not responsible for.

Unless she was completely unhinged at the time.
Even then...something nefarious had to be attached to the moment. IMO

I don't think unhinged exactly.

Calculating.

I think, in that moment, she feared losing the foster daughter over it.

That's a pretty strong motivator, I'd think.

By all counts, she was unaccounted for for about a half hour, a period during which Wm disappeared without a trace. No one on site seemed to know she was gone, or gone that long. 911 and the male caregiver were led to believe Wm, and Wm alone, had been gone 5 minutes...

By virtue of his continued disappearance, I suspect he was moved from the foster gma's property... and moved again.

I don't know when or to where but I suspect it.

We might like to think there was no opportunity for her to do so, but I've seen it happen in other cases. By a primary person of interest! You'd think LE would be watching their every move, but turns out, many times it's not blue surveillance, it's digital. By the time LE processes the digital tracking, the moving had already occurred.

The fosters were not POI's, were likely not followed, in real time by real LE on their tails OR by tracking devices...

Who would've challenged her if she said she waa going off to search for Wm?

Opportunities to move him existed.

JMO

 

[drsleuth]

Also in regards to to being lost in the bush, it was reported that WT's scent was not picked up beyond the boarder of the property. This caused police to look further into human intervention for WT's disappearance, via car. Fehon's comment is very interesting. It seems to me, we are still at that point after 9 years


BBM

William Tyrrell: The boy no-one can find

"I heard the voice of the woman who was knocking and I knew something awful had happened. It was a voice tinged with desperation."

www.nowtolove.com.au

Even the grandmother's house was searched, top to bottom, but there was nothing. Not a scrap of clothing, not a footprint in the dirt, not an errant tyre track. Police dogs were brought in and they managed to find William's scent, but only within the boundaries of the backyard.
"I can truthfully say that nothing has been discounted," says the man heading the investigation, Superintendent Paul Fehon, a long-serving officer and family man, who habitually refers to William as "young William".
"Our starting point is approximately a five-minute window when young William walked around the side of the house into the backyard and disappeared from sight while his mother and grandmother went inside for a cup of tea. We are still at that point. This far into an investigation we might expect something to lead us in a new direction. That hasn't happened. The truth is that we have nothing and that means we have to keep an open mind about what might have happened and that includes the possibility of human intervention and that he is still out there. That might be something good."

BBM : it was reported that WT's scent was not picked up beyond the boarder of the property

The dog handler Senior Constable Matthew Gates stated that it was impossible to track

“Upon my arrival on the 12th of September, 2014, I assessed the area and found that tracking was impossible. This is due to the amount of time that had passed between William Tyrrell going missing and the time it took for me to travel to Kendall,” Sen-Const Gates wrote in his statement in February this year.

“I believe this to be approximately two hours.”

So IMO not finding William's scent beyond the boundary does not mean it was not there.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/william-tyrrell-police-dog-handler-describes-impossible-search/news-story/e8e18bde8efff02f45ff5d0ebe4cb003?amp

​

 

[drsleuth]

I have it in my notes from the inquest from GO's testimony. So I know it is true. If MSM haven't reported it, I don't know what to tell you. He returned on the 10/10/14 after a phonecall on the afternoon of 12/9/14, from the FGM stating that he couldn't come the next Tuesday.

What date did GO say this at the inquest?

 

[FromGermany1]

Logic. If she went around one corner and Wm wasn't there, she'd go around the next, and the next, until she reached the starting point. No reason to assume he was lost if he was on the move. She never made that circuit, far as we know. I conclude that she encountered Wm after the fist turn.

Maybe Wm never hit the ground but got strung up on the rail.

Had her father been ill, prior to his death? hospitalized? I mean surely she knew where the hospital was. Does it align at all with her supposed route? Might she have initially sped away with him to get him to an ER, but knew it was too late?

I give her no sympathy if this was all a cover up to protect her reputation (as the perfect parent) and status as a fosterer/adoptor.

But as a parent, I CAN imagine a horror at following after a child, to contain them (disciplinary wise), only to witness a catastrophe I couldn't stop.

Personally I suspect she made an immediate calculation and decided, whatever happened there one the side of the house, no one ever must know.

JMO

"Normal" for a mother would be, to immediately tell my own mother and ask her to pay attention to my other little child, if I had to race to the hospital (or at least thought, I would do it). IMO
You know, I believe, FFC did nothing to little W, except maybe secretly gave him away (or similar), uninjured and alive. MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

BBM : it was reported that WT's scent was not picked up beyond the boarder of the property

The dog handler Senior Constable Matthew Gates stated that it was impossible to track

“Upon my arrival on the 12th of September, 2014, I assessed the area and found that tracking was impossible. This is due to the amount of time that had passed between William Tyrrell going missing and the time it took for me to travel to Kendall,” Sen-Const Gates wrote in his statement in February this year.

“I believe this to be approximately two hours.”

So IMO not finding William's scent beyond the boundary does not mean it was not there.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/william-tyrrell-police-dog-handler-describes-impossible-search/news-story/e8e18bde8efff02f45ff5d0ebe4cb003?amp

​

If someone picked little W up and hold him on her/his arms, putting him into a car, the boy's cent wouldn't have been there at the property boundary anymore. IMO

 

[Couldbe]

Not being privy to all of what has been recorded by Strikeforce Rosann from their investigations, I have a couple of questions in regard to a couple of aspects of what the FM has said publicly:-

Questions:

1. FGM had signed a contract for the sale of her house …. Unless included in the terms of the Contract, why was GO asked to repair floor boards (Vendors don’t usually spend money on repairs after they have actually sold their properties). Were the sale terms checked out by LE?
2. Was it the first visit to FGM since Opah’s funeral …….. Had the children visited the FGM inbetween Feb and 12 Sept (Either with / or without the FM)? Did LE corroborate that?
3. Why was FM giving her opinion about who it wouldn’t have been who had abducted William (She had absolutely nothing to back up that belief).

“In the heartbreaking account, the parents stress their belief he was abducted from someone outside the community, and also reveal:

• William was "absolutely beside himself with happiness" the day he disappeared.

• The moment they realised he was gone, his mother said, “I just thought, I can’t hear him, I can’t see him, where is he?”

• It was the family’s first visit to William’s grandmother since his grandfather died seven months earlier

• His mother does not believe a member of the Kendall community is involved: “I can’t see a true local who knows my family choosing to take my child”.

“M: I took the photo, I took three photos, I do photo books, of what we do as a family every year. So every time we go somewhere I have my camera and I just take pictures of what they’re doing, and I thought Mum’s getting old, be really good for William and his sister to have memories of being at Mum’s. And my Dad passed away in February that year so that was really the first time we’d been back since Dad passed away, and we were going to go visit Dad’s grave, they were drawing some pictures to put on his grave, they were sending messages to Opa and things like that. I just thought, I want to just take some pictures of that.”

Apr 17, 2015 IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure

 

[SouthAussie]

Why was FM giving her opinion about who it wouldn’t have been who had abducted William (She had absolutely nothing to back up that belief).

Why was FGM asked her opinion about who would have taken William? (She said the only person she could think of was P who lived across the road)

Perhaps it is a typical question that they ask in a missing child's case.

Similar to a murder case when they ask "is there anyone you can think of who may have wanted to harm your husband/son/daughter/wife/etc".

 

[SouthAussie]

What date did GO say this at the inquest?

I took a look through Blues Clues posts from the inquest.

Blues said that it was GO who cancelled the work on the following Tuesday, as his appointment for surgery had been scheduled.


GO had a reason to be in Benaroon Drive.

He had inspected the work required to the deck and was planning on doing the work the following week when he received a call to say his day surgery procedure had been scheduled. He then needed to contact FGM to advise her he would not be able to come as planned. He said he rang on Thursday evening and spoke to FFC's sister. FFC's sister was not there. He did ring at 9.10am on the Friday morning and his call was not answered. He has given two explanations of where he was at the time of William's disappearance. In one he said he was in Kendall renewing his subscription to the local newsletter. In the other he said he couldn't remember.

After his phone call wasn't answered, did he decide to drive out to Benaroon Drive and let FGM know he wouldn't be able to carry out the work until after his surgery? Link

 

[bearbear]

So instead of an accident, are you theorising that FM decided that morning, to grab the little boy, and rush him into the car, and dispose of him somehow, then come back and say he went missing?

Her mother and daughter didn't notice or hear anything? There was no sudden accident, she just decided to kill him or dump him somewhere?

unless ffc was chasing him, angry, and he had an asthma attack and choked on the dice he'd been playing with, around the side of the house away from his sister and fgm, an accidental death? or he slipped and fell hitting his head,
ffc had a cut on her hand she said happened from falling? the leaves probably damp and slippery in the cool side of the garden?

 

[SouthAussie]

unless ffc was chasing him, angry, and he had an asthma attack and choked on the dice hed been playing with, around the side of the house away from his sister and fgm, an accidental death? or he slipped and fell hitting his head, ffc had a cut on her had she said happened from falling? the leaves probably damp and slippery in the cool side of the garden?

One would think that the required first aid training would then kick into gear.


First Aid Training for Kids is essential to becoming an Anglicare foster carer ....
The application pack includes police checks, working with children checks and medical checks completed by your GP. You also need to complete a first aid course for children prior to approval.

How to Become a Foster Carer | Anglicare Sydney | Anglicare

Deciding to foster a child in need is life changing and worthwhile. Learn about the range of different Anglicare programs available and how you can become a foster carer.

www.anglicare.org.au

 

[k-mac]

I took a look through Blues Clues posts from the inquest.

Blues said that it was GO who cancelled the work on the following Tuesday, as his appointment for surgery had been scheduled.


GO had a reason to be in Benaroon Drive.

He had inspected the work required to the deck and was planning on doing the work the following week when he received a call to say his day surgery procedure had been scheduled. He then needed to contact FGM to advise her he would not be able to come as planned. He said he rang on Thursday evening and spoke to FFC's sister. FFC's sister was not there. He did ring at 9.10am on the Friday morning and his call was not answered. He has given two explanations of where he was at the time of William's disappearance. In one he said he was in Kendall renewing his subscription to the local newsletter. In the other he said he couldn't remember.

After his phone call wasn't answered, did he decide to drive out to Benaroon Drive and let FGM know he wouldn't be able to carry out the work until after his surgery? Link

Not sure what the relevance is and where all this leads to regarding GO.

Is it exploring the idea a man who is unwell and is having surgery imminently would be up for kidnapping a small child randomly??

 

[LolaAngelina]

Not sure what the relevance is and where all this leads to regarding GO.

Is it exploring the idea a man who is unwell and is having surgery imminently would be up for kidnapping a small child randomly??

Do you know what the surgery was? Could be a simple routine surgery. It’s doesn’t necessarily mean he was unwell.

 

[k-mac]

Do you know what the surgery was? Could be a simple routine surgery. It’s doesn’t necessarily mean he was unwell.

No I don't, do you know?

Unless he is having a cosmetic procedure (not sure what types men usually have tbh...)
Usually you have surgery for an ailment/condition.
An ailment/condition usually means your unwell or incapacitated in some form.

He is a nothing burger IMO....Look there..not here.

 

[drsleuth]

Not sure what the relevance is and where all this leads to regarding GO.

Is it exploring the idea a man who is unwell and is having surgery imminently would be up for kidnapping a small child randomly??

The relevance is he had direct contact with the FGM on the 8/9/14 & again by phone on the afternoon of the 8/9/14

And again on the 11/9/14 & arranged to do the work on the deck on the 16/9/14 ( so was not so ill as not to be able to do this work IMO )- did the FGM mention that her family was coming on the 12/9/14?? Possible IMO

On the 11/9 he had attended Port Macquarie hospital ( he couldn't remember , but said it would be in his diary ) for a cancer support meeting .

On Friday 12/9/14 between 10 - 11am he was in Kendall at the Community centre to pay for advertising ( did he have his mate FA with him I wonder? )

He went for surgery on the 18/9/14 ( prostate cancer ) where he was in hospital for 6 days - he had no set date for his surgery & was awaiting the same.

He eventually repaired the deck on the 10/10/14

So I do see the relevance of discussing GO

 

[k-mac]

The relevance is he had direct contact with the FGM on the 8/9/14 & again by phone on the afternoon of the 8/9/14

And again on the 11/9/14 & arranged to do the work on the deck on the 16/9/14 ( so was not so ill as not to be able to do this work IMO )- did the FGM mention that her family was coming on the 12/9/14?? Possible IMO

On the 11/9 he had attended Port Macquarie hospital ( he couldn't remember , but said it would be in his diary ) for a cancer support meeting .

On Friday 12/9/14 between 10 - 11am he was in Kendall at the Community centre to pay for advertising ( did he have his mate FA with him I wonder? )

He went for surgery on the 18/9/14 ( prostate cancer ) where he was in hospital for 6 days - he had no set date for his surgery & was awaiting the same.

He eventually repaired the deck on the 10/10/14

So I do see the relevance of discussing GO

What relevance do you see?

A man who had a legitimate reason for his connection and communication to Grandma as you have just posted.

There is zero nefarious evidence linking him to William.

 

[LolaAngelina]

The relevance is he had direct contact with the FGM on the 8/9/14 & again by phone on the afternoon of the 8/9/14

And again on the 11/9/14 & arranged to do the work on the deck on the 16/9/14 ( so was not so ill as not to be able to do this work IMO )- did the FGM mention that her family was coming on the 12/9/14?? Possible IMO

On the 11/9 he had attended Port Macquarie hospital ( he couldn't remember , but said it would be in his diary ) for a cancer support meeting .

On Friday 12/9/14 between 10 - 11am he was in Kendall at the Community centre to pay for advertising ( did he have his mate FA with him I wonder? )

He went for surgery on the 18/9/14 ( prostate cancer ) where he was in hospital for 6 days - he had no set date for his surgery & was awaiting the same.

He eventually repaired the deck on the 10/10/14

So I do see the relevance of discussing GO

Thanks for clarifying those facts for us. Yes l think he’s still very relevant to the case

 

[bearbear]

One would think that the required first aid training would then kick into gear.


First Aid Training for Kids is essential to becoming an Anglicare foster carer ....
The application pack includes police checks, working with children checks and medical checks completed by your GP. You also need to complete a first aid course for children prior to approval.

How to Become a Foster Carer | Anglicare Sydney | Anglicare

Deciding to foster a child in need is life changing and worthwhile. Learn about the range of different Anglicare programs available and how you can become a foster carer.

www.anglicare.org.au

he might have choked on something and nothing she did could dislodge it, or she got there too late?
but if he had a severe asthma attack she should have time to get him to hospital

 

[nightrider17]

he might have choked on something and nothing she did could dislodge it, or she got there too late?
but if he had a severe asthma attack she should have time to get him to hospital

I think Megnut had a thought of W having dice in his mouth and possibly choking - as a possibility - no injury or bleeding. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

he might have choked on something and nothing she did could dislodge it, or she got there too late?
but if he had a severe asthma attack she should have time to get him to hospital

The way I try to look at it is how I think a prosecutor/Coroner might look at it. Because, ultimately, any guilt is proven in a court of law.

And I don't think anyone can even prove that William died at FGM's house (or anywhere else that he may have died, presuming that he is deceased).

 

[Couldbe]

JMO –The FM has provided timelines for the activities that had occurred leading up to William’s disappearance.

…. Her contradictions in regard to:-

1. The time it was …. when she was drinking a cup of tea … was she out on the small deck / or inside making the tea?
2. The time it was …. when she went to find him, and he was gone; She agreed during the Triple Zero call it was about 10.30am;
3. The time it was …. when she actually left 48 Benaroon in the Mazda for her drive; And yet she said that upon her return, she ran inside to check her Mobile and then saw MFC’s ‘home in 5’ text message sent to her at 10.30am;

Considering that … from her timeline for William’s disappearance at 10.30am, and the return of MFC at 48 Benaroon at 10.35am (when she met him as he drove in) …. an abductor had 5 mins to complete his act!

In trying to piece together when William’s disappearance occurred, various members of the LE have constructed earlier times … of up to approx. 20 to 25 mins; we are not privy as to how they arrived at those earlier times, but if they were principally based on the timelines provided to them by the FM then, with the evidence in the Brief that has been referred to the DPP, Rosann may have discovered that the timeline for William’s disappearance needed to be amended to an earlier time.