Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[AZlawyer]

Well then Bond, if we go along with this tape as a barrier idea, how did Caylee die? What would have led Dr. G to her conclusion that Caylee's death was due to homicide?

I'm not trying to be a pain in the assumption, but...

The "ewww factor" of placing tape on a decomposing body is more than I think KC could have handled. Heck!! Even I couldn't see myself doing that if I was trying to clean up after committing that kind of crime.

You are way more imaginative than I am and a hell of lot smarter, but I just don't see the tape being used as a barrier. I'm sticking with it being the cause of death.

Keep in mind that "homicide" would include negligently allowing a small child in your care to die--e.g., by not watching them. It doesn't have to be intentional.

 

[snow_walker]

I have to go with the razor axiom.. duct tape found on her little face means this is the likely cause of death.
Still, just to speculate a bit, she may have smothered her with a pillow, then put the duct tape over her face (immediately afterwards) so as to be completly sure she was dead and would not revive.

 

[static]

IMO, Caylee had been crying for Grandma and it sent Casey over the edge. That is when the duct tape was applied. It could be possible that after she killed Caylee, she put the duct tape on in a panic to stage a "kidnap" scene. I truly believe though, it was to stop Caylee's crying. Casey was so worried about Tony, and myspace that she would have just seen her daughter's crying as an intrusion to what Casey considered important.

 

[RubyB]

Keep in mind that "homicide" would include negligently allowing a small child in your care to die--e.g., by not watching them. It doesn't have to be intentional.

I would agree if it weren't for the fact that this is currently a death penalty case. You've got to think the SA's office is prepared to prove the "intentional" part (somehow?!), that being the case.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Well then Bond, if we go along with this tape as a barrier idea, how did Caylee die? What would have led Dr. G to her conclusion that Caylee's death was due to homicide?

Afraid I dunno how she died, CW. I just keep trying on different scenarios to see how they fit the information we have. This little 'tape as barrier' thought just comes from a scenario of Casey needing Caylee's body outta the trunk 6/17.

I'm not trying to be a pain in the assumption, but...

The "ewww factor" of placing tape on a decomposing body is more than I think KC could have handled. Heck!! Even I couldn't see myself doing that if I was trying to clean up after committing that kind of crime.

IKWYM, CW, I see Casey doing the minimum...which is why I'm not wild 'bout tape-as-barrier...just offering it up for consideration.

On the other hand, I see Casey as a narcissist, capable of doing whatever she believes she needs to do to protect herself. Putting it another way...if Casey was capable of dumping her daughter's body in a ditch to protect her own freedom...then she's capable of accomplishing things as a means to an end much moreso than a 'normal' person can comprehend.

When the body was discovered on Suburban Dr. it taught me why I'd make a lousy detective. I had poured over the available information for so many hours thinking about how I would handle a disposal in Casey's circumstances. What I should've been doing was trying to figure you how Casey would've handled it. Casey doesn't think like I do...so I hafta toss out the way I'd approach a situation and try to apply Casey-think. :waitasec:

You are way more imaginative than I am and a hell of lot smarter, but I just don't see the tape being used as a barrier. I'm sticking with it being the cause of death.

And you're being too kind, CW. IKWYM, it is just as easy for me to see Casey using the tape in a rage to quiet Caylee...I wouldn't suggest the tape being a barrier as a better idea...just another idea to consider.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I agree. I think she was drowned at the house pool, and the duct tape was the only thing she could think of that would stop leakage of fluid after she started to ooze all over her trunk. ( sorry to be so graphic) Even bodies that die a natural death leak fluid from orifices after death, and in a drowning there is obviously more.

 

[celticthyme]

BJB,
The tape as barrier to keep things out vs, the other way around (keeping fluids in) makes a lot of sense . . great thinking. That would mean that the problems of decomp occurred when she returned her to the trunk to get rid of her . . Ahh tis a good thing she's not capable of thinking too far ahead ( dust to dust process) and are we not glad we can Not "get into her head" to think the way she does . .

According to Lawson Lamar, Document dumps tomorrow!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Seems to me that using duct tape as a barrier for insect colonization is a thought that's too original for Casey. Just putting her in a plastic bag would be easier and less "up close and personal" than applying the tape at this point. I just can't see Casey thinking, "Oh, no!! Flies in her mouth; I'll put tape on to keep them out." I can more readily believe her seeing the beginning of decomposition (even if it was flies or whatever) and saying, "OMG, I can't stand this. I'll just put it in a garbage bag and close the top." Out of sight; out of mind. Less personal. moo ~ I think the tape was the murder weapon.

 

[tasylshari]

EU: I totally agree that the tape was the murder weapon. Trying to think like Casey I would imagine that she taped her shut, placed the heart sticker as an "See? I love my child!" and then triple bagged her so that she didn't have to see what she did again. I have a difficult time imagining even diabolical Casey wanting to see dead Caylee's face ever again after she killed her. Gawd, this is soooooooo dreadful:sick:

 

[Spangle]

I would agree if it weren't for the fact that this is currently a death penalty case. You've got to think the SA's office is prepared to prove the "intentional" part (somehow?!), that being the case.

In FL, death while child (under 12) is being abused, makes it an automatic DP eligible case. Taping the child's face, could be considered child abuse. IF the ME says her face was taped before she died, then she died while being abused (face taped).

 

[Spangle]

I don't think she taped her face because of the fluids or the bugs. Because she didn't tape all the problem places. There is still the eyes and ears and butt for the fluids to come out off.

And the bugs could still land on the eye area.

All this is in those yuck threads. And web sites dealing with decomp.

 

[tasylshari]

I don't think she taped her face because of the fluids or the bugs. Because she didn't tape all the problem places. There is still the eyes and ears and butt for the fluids to come out off.

And the bugs could still land on the eye area.

All this is in those yuck threads. And web sites dealing with decomp.

You nailed it, Spangle!

 

[BondJamesBond]

So....where was the tape when Casey retrieved it? Garage? Shed? Already in the Pontiac?

And where did the remaining tape go? Casey used last that was on the roll? Tossed it in the car and disposed of it <6/27? Tossed sometime after Casey's arrest?

 

[mysteriew]

So....where was the tape when Casey retrieved it? Garage? Shed? Already in the Pontiac?

And where did the remaining tape go? Casey used last that was on the roll? Tossed it in the car and disposed of it <6/27? Tossed sometime after Casey's arrest?

I think she tossed it somewhere right after using it. I am guessing that she may have seen in some high profile case or CSI show how they matched the tape. And I think she thought she was being smart by tossing the tape so that it couldn't be traced back to her.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

So....where was the tape when Casey retrieved it? Garage? Shed? Already in the Pontiac?

And where did the remaining tape go? Casey used last that was on the roll? Tossed it in the car and disposed of it <6/27? Tossed sometime after Casey's arrest?

Am I right in thinking that you're wondering how she could have conviently and quickly gotten the tape at hand if it was used before Calee's death as opposed to Caylee already being dead and then she could have more time to find the tape?

If so I can offer the following. Casey is angry. Angry with Cindy (the fight?) and angry with Caylee's reaction. Cindy is also angry with Casey so I can't imagine that she would follow Casey into the garage or shed. They had probably come to an impasse/standoff where they were both trying to "keep their distance." Casey could have, at this time, blown through the entire house and found whatever she wanted. I don't think the duct tape had to be in Casey's bedroom or car before she used it. I think she could have thought of it as a way to shut Caylee up, found the tape (where ever) and taken it either to her bedroom or with Caylee into the car.

I've had an occasion or two with teenagers after confrontations with them and remember how it seemed like they were storming around in the house. And I think of Casey as nothing more than a teenager (if that) with her arrested developement.

Getting rid of the tape couldn't have presented any problem to her at all. We know she knows how to deal with what she considers garbage. And if she had missed this important step, I have no reservations believing that the rest of her family would have come to her aid.

 

[magic-cat]

So....where was the tape when Casey retrieved it? Garage? Shed? Already in the Pontiac?

And where did the remaining tape go? Casey used last that was on the roll? Tossed it in the car and disposed of it <6/27? Tossed sometime after Casey's arrest?

HI Bond!
It could already have been in her bedroom. She may have confiscated it when they were planning the anything but clothes party and she and Amy were discussing uses of the duct tape. She may have secured it then, from the garage as a "just in case I need it" type thought and then perhaps she may even have taken it to the car (maybe to keep mom and dad out of the loop) and whala-handy dandy tape available in her moment of rage...Then she tosses the remainder in a dumpster anywhere on her pathway, and it is never to be seen again...or she did use the last of it on poor little Caylee and just did away with the spool...

 

[JBean]

bumpity bump for more duct tape convo

 

[JBean]

bumpity bump for discussion

 

[passionflower]

IMO, pure speculation, I believe the duct tape was put on an alive Caylee in a rage to keep her quiet.
IMO, I feel Caylee was crying for CA.
That alone infuriated KC.
OR CAYLEE told the family a KC secret...............
and KC was going to shut Caylee's mouth up forever.
KC can have the most evil look and her hands go into fists when she is enraged.
As proven in her jail house tapes!
I cannot see KC all dressed up to go partying messing with a dead corpse.
After death, KC never looked again.
Caylee may still of been alive as she was put into the bags for all we know.
Then KC drove around with her dead til she dumped her. JMOO

 

[belle3]

iirc there were three pieces of tape wrapped around the bottom half of the face. when i think of using tape in a rage i would imagine just going crazy and wrapping it around her face. the fact that it was cut into three sort of equal pieces kinda says to me planned. took her time. i do believe that caylee told cindy that she was being put in the trunk. i try to wrap my head around what would be so bad that cindy would try and take custody from casey. i mean shes covering for casey right now. the duct tape is a very personal message imo. its a definite eff you to somebody. and im sure whatever transpired in that fight resulted in the duct tape being placed over caylees mouth and nose. and that is why this family will deny, deny, deny that a fight ever took place.