Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[Astraea]

That was certainly a long haul. First I had to figure out how to search, and then I had to read this thread. Now my head hurts a bit. I wanted to point out that many times it was asked what the duct tape measurements were in this thread. After a great deal of googling (on top of the aforementioned forum searching and diligent reading of each post), I finally located the report.

In it the measurements of the Q62,Q63,and Q64 pieces of tape are listed as being:
9 1/2", 7", 9"

I am going to assume that this may very well be floating around here somewhere in another thread pertaining to the duct tape, but just in case, I thought I would add it here.

 

[angeldust]

Surey to god if caylee did tell her gm she was being put in the trunk the gm would have called ss

I would think any gp for that matter would string their daughter alive for doing this and there would have been no 31 day delay.. and that baby would still be alive ...

My opinion is that the child was only in the trunk after the fact, that her mother killed her jmo

 

[Astraea]

So....I am now left wondering how these pieces of tape at that length could be wrapped far enough around to attach at both sides to the hair. And tightly enough to hold a mandible in place through all the conditions the State would have us believe that the body was exposed to. I will try to locate the measurements of the skull as this may help me understand this theory a little better.

It is also my belief that the Defense is going to go after this evidence in a meticulous manner. I am no fool and I realize that pictures speak a thousand words, but the defense will go after this inferred conclusion of Doctor Gs, of this I have not doubt.

There are some interesting posts in this thread in regards to this topic, that are quite scientific in nature I might add. It was definitely worth the read and I am glad I found it, as I didnt think I was the only one wondering about this particular piece of evidence.

 

[ecs5298]

So....I am now left wondering how these pieces of tape at that length could be wrapped far enough around to attach at both sides to the hair. And tightly enough to hold a mandible in place through all the conditions the State would have us believe that the body was exposed to. I will try to locate the measurements of the skull as this may help me understand this theory a little better.

It is also my belief that the Defense is going to go after this evidence in a meticulous manner. I am no fool and I realize that pictures speak a thousand words, but the defense will go after this inferred conclusion of Doctor Gs, of this I have not doubt.

There are some interesting posts in this thread in regards to this topic, that are quite scientific in nature I might add. It was definitely worth the read and I am glad I found it, as I didnt think I was the only one wondering about this particular piece of evidence.

I imagine the pictures of the skull that we are not privy to would answer most of the questions of "how?"

 

[beach]

There are some interesting posts in this thread in regards to this topic, that are quite scientific in nature I might add. It was definitely worth the read and I am glad I found it, as I didnt think I was the only one wondering about this particular piece of evidence.

I bet your head does hurt after trying to digest all the info in this thread alone!

Many of us had the luxury of digesting threads like this over time - as it was released in doc dumps and subsequently sleuthed ad nauseum. By some VERY astute, intelligent and unbiased members whose only goal was to dig out the TRUTH. That is exactly why WS is the only crime forum I frequent. Intelligent, hard-working posters (many who have professional credentials that are applicable in areas that we are attempting to sleuth) whose only agenda is to find justice for Caylee Marie Anthony.


Many of us who appear to have firm beliefs on certain issues already - well, we got to that point by reading these type threads and those listed in the Resource forum. I know several highly-respected posters who still are on the fence on whether or not it was an accident. If ya really want to get on a wild goose chase that will probably tie A LOT of loose ends together, start perusing the ping threads. LOL Make sure you have an adequate supply of tylenol on hand and plan on charging your laptop battery to the max!

I know it has to feel frustrating to be challenged on things that seem to have not been substantiated to your liking. Hopefully, after reading some of these type threads, even if you don't agree, you will be able to understand why we came to the differing conclusions we stand by.

 

[AZlawyer]

So....I am now left wondering how these pieces of tape at that length could be wrapped far enough around to attach at both sides to the hair. And tightly enough to hold a mandible in place through all the conditions the State would have us believe that the body was exposed to. I will try to locate the measurements of the skull as this may help me understand this theory a little better.

It is also my belief that the Defense is going to go after this evidence in a meticulous manner. I am no fool and I realize that pictures speak a thousand words, but the defense will go after this inferred conclusion of Doctor Gs, of this I have not doubt.

There are some interesting posts in this thread in regards to this topic, that are quite scientific in nature I might add. It was definitely worth the read and I am glad I found it, as I didnt think I was the only one wondering about this particular piece of evidence.

http://www.boneclones.com/BC-275.htm

Check out the dimensions of this model of a 2-3 year old child's skull. Looks to me like 9 inches at mouth level would cover both jaw hinges.

 

[Astraea]

http://www.boneclones.com/BC-275.htm

Check out the dimensions of this model of a 2-3 year old child's skull. Looks to me like 9 inches at mouth level would cover both jaw hinges.

Thanks for the link AZLawyer. I am not seeing how the tape could be attached to the hair with these measurements. Guess when the trial begins and all the experts for both sides give their testimony it will become much clearer. I try to take these things seriously all the time, but on a lighter note, I would hate to hear, "if the tape doesnt fit you must acquit". :innocent:

ETA: The FBI notes also indictate that the ends of the tape were very degraded. This also made me wonder about the hair being attached still.

 

[flourish]

http://www.boneclones.com/BC-275.htm

Check out the dimensions of this model of a 2-3 year old child's skull. Looks to me like 9 inches at mouth level would cover both jaw hinges.

FWIW, as a preschool teacher, I see many small children daily. Now, I haven't literally measured any of my students' heads, but I've studied their little faces and noggins with this cases' duct tape in mind (shudder). Those lengths have always seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

If you're holding someone down to tape their face, you probably don't want the bother of lifting their head and wrapping the tape around...that just sounds too difficult, regardless of whether your victim was fighting or drugged and more "dead weight." Taping something around and around usually results in twisted, stuck-together tape, at least it does if you're me, and that's when wrapping an inanimate object.

FWIW, I just used a cloth measuring tape and measured from just behind my left jaw hinge across my mouth to just behind the other jaw hinge. It was 12 inches. I am a plump grown-up, so...

 

[magic-cat]

Thanks for the link AZLawyer. I am not seeing how the tape could be attached to the hair with these measurements. Guess when the trial begins and all the experts for both sides give their testimony it will become much clearer. I try to take these things seriously all the time, but on a lighter note, I would hate to hear, "if the tape doesnt fit you must acquit". :innocent:

ETA: The FBI notes also indictate that the ends of the tape were very degraded. This also made me wonder about the hair being attached still.

The average ruler is 12 inches right? If the strips of tape were 9 inches (I cannot recall how long each one was), then that would certainly be enough to reach across the face of a very small toddler and reach the hair just behind the ears. For the sake of clarity, I had me hubby measure my five year old (bigger than Caylee by quite a bit) from hairline behind the ear to hairline behind the ear across the front of the face. The measurement was 13 and one half inches. So a toddler, not yet 3? That should be sufficient to reach at least to the back of each ear on each side to the hairline. Maybe someone with a child that age can measure them just so we can settle it. :waitasec:

Then there is also the fact that Caylee is a little girl (we did hairline to hairline behind the ears on a little boy and he has no hanging down hair) and has long hair. The hair could have been over her ears, and if she was struggling? It could even have been in her face at the time the taping took place.

 

[magic-cat]

Also in the measuring we did? He measured across the nose to make sure that the length would also encompass a small nose.

 

[flourish]

ah yes, I did not measure my nose...I was wondering...

 

[Aedrys]

The average ruler is 12 inches right? If the strips of tape were 9 inches (I cannot recall how long each one was), then that would certainly be enough to reach across the face of a very small toddler and reach the hair just behind the ears. For the sake of clarity, I had me hubby measure my five year old (bigger than Caylee by quite a bit) from hairline behind the ear to hairline behind the ear across the front of the face. The measurement was 13 and one half inches. So a toddler, not yet 3? That should be sufficient to reach at least to the back of each ear on each side to the hairline. Maybe someone with a child that age can measure them just so we can settle it. :waitasec:

Then there is also the fact that Caylee is a little girl (we did hairline to hairline behind the ears on a little boy and he has no hanging down hair) and has long hair. The hair could have been over her ears, and if she was struggling? It could even have been in her face at the time the taping took place.

Am I the only one depressed about the images this conversation brings of Caylee's death? I really hope Caylee was unconscious when this happened, that poor baby...

No offense magic-cat, btw.

 

[magic-cat]

Am I the only one depressed about the images this conversation brings of Caylee's death? I really hope Caylee was unconscious when this happened, that poor baby...

No offense magic-cat, btw.

I understand completely. My five year old is, well, he is amazing. He is rowdy and rough and he is just about as obstinate as they come. I feel like he and Caylee share what can only be called a zest for life beyond what most of us ever experience. He was also 3 when Caylee came up reported missing, and as I watched her videos and heard about her, I realized how much alike they were-ready for action at all times, what some might refer to as a "handful". He LOVES tape measures, so he was very happy to BE measured, and of course was unaware of our morbid interest in the size of his poor sweet little head. Anyhow...I am sure if he had known Caylee, they would have been fast friends, and if he knew it was for her, I bet he wouldn't mind. He doesn't like "the bad guys" at all...so that was one child's contribution to another child who deserves her justice.

It IS morbid the things that are brought to mind through following a case like this...I must say.

 

[LambChop]

So....I am now left wondering how these pieces of tape at that length could be wrapped far enough around to attach at both sides to the hair. And tightly enough to hold a mandible in place through all the conditions the State would have us believe that the body was exposed to. I will try to locate the measurements of the skull as this may help me understand this theory a little better.

It is also my belief that the Defense is going to go after this evidence in a meticulous manner. I am no fool and I realize that pictures speak a thousand words, but the defense will go after this inferred conclusion of Doctor Gs, of this I have not doubt.

There are some interesting posts in this thread in regards to this topic, that are quite scientific in nature I might add. It was definitely worth the read and I am glad I found it, as I didnt think I was the only one wondering about this particular piece of evidence.

We don't have to wonder because the reports state that it did fit. The defense has pictures which would tell them, in fact, it did fit. If defense experts took the opportunity to examine the skull and measure it they, in fact, know it did fit. And what would be the point to challenge Dr. G when defense is still stating that SODDI? What purpose is served by arguing about the tape. Unless, of course, your client is guilty. Otherwise it would make no sense. JMO

 

[LambChop]

"if the tape doesnt fit you must acquit". :innocent:
ETA: The FBI notes also indictate that the ends of the tape were very degraded. This also made me wonder about the hair being attached still.

LOL. I think JB would probably use the "Who are you going to believe me or your eyes" regarding the duct tape around the skull pictures. ;o) Seems to have worked pretty well for him in the past.

Wasn't the tape taken off the skull by the medical examiner? So if the tape was degraded the tape could have been longer....is that what you are saying?? jmo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Thanks for the link AZLawyer. I am not seeing how the tape could be attached to the hair with these measurements. Guess when the trial begins and all the experts for both sides give their testimony it will become much clearer. I try to take these things seriously all the time, but on a lighter note, I would hate to hear, "if the tape doesnt fit you must acquit". :innocent:

ETA: The FBI notes also indictate that the ends of the tape were very degraded. This also made me wonder about the hair being attached still.

Astraea, the duct tape did not go around her entire skull, if this is what you're thinking. I do believe it was a few inches behind her ears on both sides, which kept her hair in place and her mandible from separating from the rest of her head. How terrible...

I also believe a parent must love their child more than they love themself, in protecting and loving a child. IMO, Inmate Anthony loves only herself...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Astraea]

Astraea, the duct tape did not go around her entire skull, if this is what you're thinking. I do believe it was a few inches behind her ears on both sides, which kept her hair in place and her mandible from separating from the rest of her head. How terrible...

I also believe a parent must love their child more than they love themself, in protecting and loving a child. IMO, Inmate Anthony loves only herself...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

I am well aware what the report states. I have read it over and over again at this point.

The measurements of the tape were stated above and it took me a very long time to find them. 9.5 inches was the longest. My "home" measurements tell me this would not fit around the head to attach into the hair(and my nephew is 2 and a half with an enormous head though...bless his little heart). Of course as I stated previously, this would depend on Caylees skull size.

I respect those who take the evidence presented at face value, but I can guarantee that other experts could and possibly WILL disagree with Dr. G. If medical examiners were always correct in their findings, some people wouldnt be found not guilty. As a matter of fact we had 60+ cases overturned here where the medical examiner was not correct in his findings..all children. One man spent 7 years in jail and another Mother originally charged for her daughters murder was freed(there was pubic hair evidence that the examiner hid)... no one can erase the public scrutiny of these people while they were charged and/or convicted...it happens....

If OTHERS take the report as telling them that the duct tape was still attached around the face into the back of the hair I respect that, but then I dont see the point for those same people to contribute anymore to this particular thread that is specifically about that evidence. How many ways can one repeat themselves?

You believe in Dr Gs findings..ok...I accept that you do....I personally find them questionable, and contradictory. I have been examining them closely, thus my current responses that can be found herein.

 

[Astraea]

O/t...but can someone tell me what SODDI stands for?? I have an idea..but dont want to assume

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

O/t...but can someone tell me what SODDI stands for?? I have an idea..but dont want to assume

Some Other Dude Did It Theory....SODDIT

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I am well aware what the report states. I have read it over and over again at this point.

The measurements of the tape were stated above and it took me a very long time to find them. 9.5 inches was the longest. My "home" measurements tell me this would not fit around the head to attach into the hair(and my nephew is 2 and a half with an enormous head though...bless his little heart). Of course as I stated previously, this would depend on Caylees skull size.

I respect those who take the evidence presented at face value, but I can guarantee that other experts could and possibly WILL disagree with Dr. G. If medical examiners were always correct in their findings, some people wouldnt be found not guilty. As a matter of fact we had 60+ cases overturned here where the medical examiner was not correct in his findings..all children. One man spent 7 years in jail and another Mother originally charged for her daughters murder was freed(there was pubic hair evidence that the examiner hid)... no one can erase the public scrutiny of these people while they were charged and/or convicted...it happens....

If OTHERS take the report as telling them that the duct tape was still attached around the face into the back of the hair I respect that, but then I dont see the point for those same people to contribute anymore to this particular thread that is specifically about that evidence. How many ways can one repeat themselves?

You believe in Dr Gs findings..ok...I accept that you do....I personally find them questionable, and contradictory. I have been examining them closely, thus my current responses that can be found herein.

It absolutely will be a battle of the experts, IMO...

The only way the defense has to cause reasonable doubt is to attack the evidence. I expect this is what will happen..this is their only way to cause reasonable doubt. IMO, the hardest obstacle for them will be the not alerting authorities for that crucial 31 days. Then the human decomp event in the car trunk only Inmate Anthony was driving, is another..there are many but the cruical evidence will be what I mentioned above plus the party hearty lifestyle all while Caylee is allegedly "missing" from her custody! This will be an uphill battle for the defense, which is why they still haven't decided which defense to stick with...the SODDI theory, the invisananny did it, someone else placed Caylee's body where it was ultimately found, etc..they through the spaghetti to see which one would be acceptable and fit! JMHO

Justice for Caylee