awaiting sentencing phase

[geevee]

I think Roux ought to be sanctioned for his conduct of the defence case.

He is not allowed to knowingly introduce false or deceptive evidence into Court.

Yet he must have know CP had tampered with the mobile - a critical piece of evidence.

This means a defence can simply delete or alter computer records, then advance its case as if such things never existed.

The prosecution was aware of the tampering and also treated the phone data as unmolested, the big question there is....why??

 

[lithgow1]

An interesting article on how Carl P avoided being arrested.

http://www.citypress.co.za/politics/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

 

[james83]

An interesting article on how Carl P avoided being arrested.

http://www.citypress.co.za/politics/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

It's beyond disgusting that someone has potentially aided someone in getting away with murder and will face no action, it really does make me wonder if the whole trial was little more than a theatre production following a script.

 

[WilliamMunter]

An interesting article on how Carl P avoided being arrested.

http://www.citypress.co.za/politics/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

To quote from this article it appears a deal was struck:

City Press interviewed three independent sources with intimate knowledge of the trial and has been reliably informed that the state agreed not to prosecute Carl Pistorius with defeating the ends of justice if the defence accepted the chain of evidence related to the phones, including the handset removed from the crime scene.

Accepting the chain of evidence dispensed with the state’s need to call the original investigating officer, Hilton Botha, who was seen by prosecutors as a liability.

 

[soozieqtips]

It's beyond disgusting that someone has potentially aided someone in getting away with murder and will face no action, it really does make me wonder if the whole trial was little more than a theatre production following a script.

So both brothers got away with a crime. How smug they must be feeling.

 

[delilah]

Right, now seeing as we now know that OP had that 9 minute call with Jenna earlier that evening, and seeing as we now know that CP deleted some of the data from OP's phone .. how about this theory? The bedroom, in the scene of crime photos showed one pillow propped up on the RH side of the bed (as you face it from the foot of the bed) as if someone had just been sitting up awake, possibly doing stuff on their phone. Now, OP has made a *massive* thing of having had to sleep on the LH side, and that it was Reeva on the RH side .. well, if it was Reeva on the RH side, then the way that pillow is placed then she would've been sitting up in bed at 3 o'clock in the morning .. but say if it was OP, and he was on the side of the bed that many of us believe him to have been on (i.e. the opposite side to what he claims), i.e. the RH side .. he was awake, semi-sat up with that pillow in the photo propping him up, and he was using his phone with Reeva sleeping or doing something else by his side, and then she wakes up/looks over at him and sees him messaging with someone (Etkins?) on his phone?

It's a thought .. and it has foxed me for a while now as to why that pillow is in that propped up position .. *someone* must've been awake that night, sat up in bed doing something before the argument .. was it Reeva or was it OP? I think it's more likely to be OP on that side because everything in that room pointed to it. Now we can add into that the very strong possibility he was using his phone to communicate with someone he shouldn't have been communicating with, and which would've been incriminating enough for CP to have felt it needed deleting.

I too have wondered about the propped up pillow. OP AFAIK wasn't asked about what RS was doing when he woke up but she was obviously awake when he woke. According to his version, of course.

 

[jay-jay]

It's beyond disgusting that someone has potentially aided someone in getting away with murder and will face no action, it really does make me wonder if the whole trial was little more than a theatre production following a script.

Poor Reeva, she never stood a chance up against this lot. OP knew he could treat her however he wanted to, even to the point of murdering her, and there would be no comeuppance for him or for anyone in his family.

 

[Hatfield]

"Although the untruthful evidence of an accused is of importance when a court determines the guilt or otherwise of an accused, caution must be exercised and courts ought to avoid attaching too much weight to such untruthfulness. ...that because an accused is untruthful he is therefore probably guilty, must be guarded against, as a false statement does not always justify the most extreme conclusion.”
- Judge Masipa"

This one excerpt epitomizes why Masipa’s verdict is a massive FAIL on all counts*.

WHICH “untruths” ... the big ones or the little ones?

I did not intend to murder Reeva Steenkamp.

The blue LED light bothered me.

Which of Oscar’s lies carried any “weight” at all?

How many LIES from Oscar were acceptable without consequences - 2, 10, 100?

How many LIES would he have to tell before she concluded he was guilty of murder?

This open-ended analysis (rationale) of Oscar’s “untruthfulness” - all dressed up in legalese - is breathtaking in its calculation. Masipa knows he’s a liar - she explicitly references it repeatedly in her verdict ... she’s just not sure how many lies he’s told altogether. Her blanket declaration covers them all.

Is it normal procedure for judges to minimize a murder defendant’s multiple lies? Seriously, how is that not outright BIAS?!!

“Untruthfulness” by an accused should simply be ignored? What then, should a judge base their verdict on? How does one come to a verdict of not guilty if every word out of the accused’s mouth is a presumed LIE, given a free pass? Where’s the judicial line? When does the truth start counting?

If the accused’s lies don’t matter and the State’s truths don’t matter ... where the hell does that leave justice?

I’ll tell you.

This was never about justice, never mind the truth.

Corrupt, biased, pre-ordained fraud was the end-game all along.

No rule of law involved.

Straight-up rule of the rich and powerful.

Did Masipa similarly rationalize and promote the testimonies of FIVE highly-credible, independent State witnesses, who all closely corroborated each other’s stories - and had zero reason to lie (unlike Oscar)? NO. She summarily declared them “mistaken” and “unreliable”.

If I didn’t know any better, I’d swear this verdict was written by the Defense ... with Oscar hanging over their shoulders, handing them notes.

As Nel so astutely observed, it’s all about OSCAR, OSCAR, OSCAR.

* Defense threw the Court a bone with Tasha’s.

Good points and this is same parts of her ruling that really bothered me.

Like this part...
" a false statement does not always justify the most extreme conclusion"

I would even tend to agree, but you then cannot totally assume other witnesses are lying when there is no basis for it. Its like she totally believed a proven liar (OP) and then chose to not believe multiple other witnesses where there was no proof they were lying.

Like even the ex-GF. Of course she may not like OP anymore because by definition she is an "ex-GF", but there was absolutely nothing to indicate she was lying in court about him shooting out the sunroof. She had no reason to lie about that and no proof in court that she was lying.

So the judge is going to believe the proven liar OP and then not believe someone else who was testifying. Plus multiple other witnesses about the screaming. ZERO basis to assume they were lying but judge thinks they lied? Good grief.

This judge should be forced into retirement and removed from the bench IMO. This was a travesty of justice based on her own written rulings. I gave her the benefit of doubt until I read what she wrote about how she came to conclude things. She sided with OP and I still think it was partly due to her sharing a disability and her feeling sorry for him, which are things that should never have been used in helping her decide things. JMO of course.

ETA...And going back to the 1 part of her quote. Sure, it doesnt ALWAYS mean you can conclude that OP was lying on purpose to avoid prosecution for killing her, but it CAN be a huge hint that he was. And when you look at all his other testimony then you CAN actually make that conclusion quite easily when you realize he was a defendent on trial for his life and by lying, he may avoid prosecution. As a judge, some common sense can be used and the defendent had every reason to lie in court. It was her job to recognize that AND make the right conclusions if he began to lie about things.

But no, lets just assume he made some mistakes and just slipped up innocently enough. He was just confused and didnt mean to lie in court. He didnt murder her in cold blood. He had no alterior motives to say the things he said. He is an honest citizen that did not shoot his gun illegally under any circumstances and certainly not out the sunroof.

Good Grief again. What trial was she watching. That judge makes so many people lose hope in the justice system and it is terribly upsetting.

 

[sleuth-d-]

alternative question
is it possible that carl needed to get his hands on the phone to remove incriminating comments pertaining to his court case. just a thought?

also, why were they [carl?, op?] so keen to remove the memory stick from the safe, so soon after the crime?

 

[delilah]

I don't think knowledge of the babyshoes call would have made any difference in the trial at all. But tampering with evidence FFS? Unbelievable. Whether the data would have been really damning or just pointed to OP being unfaithful is in some respects irrelevant - no doubt CP will have claimed it was the latter. We'll never know. But at least we understand now why Nel didn't make anything of oscar's 'missing' iphone.

What other horse trading was done behind the scenes, I wonder?

 

[sleuth-d-]

To quote from this article it appears a deal was struck:

if so, botha has a lot to answer for.

and even so, the botha factor didn't exist at the time carl was whisking away the phone and removing evidence from it.

 

[east2west]

In my view, I noticed while OP was in the witness box and being cross examined by Nels, that CP posture changed. He sat more forward, upright, and with facial expressions that seemed to me more like a theater director, queuing the stage actor to "follow" the script. CP's eyes and body language spoke volumes, in my opinion. Any body language experts on board here on WS?

 

[delilah]

I have approached this trial objectively up til now. I am not at all emotionally involved, despite following the trial from day one. But finding out that d***head Carl has possibly not only tampered with evidence but got away with it too is really hacking me off BIG TIME.

I feel like tweeting him something very rude, but I shall not stoop to that level. I shall just seethe quietly to myself...

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

so i know there's some people with connections to SA

Hows the mood over there in regards to pistorius?

South Africans think Oscar Pistorius is guilty of murder – survey
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/south-africans-think-oscar-pistorius-guilty-murder-survey/

 

[delilah]

Thanks Col.Mustard and baby shoes sleuthers!

Re Jenna Edkins being BabyShoes, I posted comments from Sam Taylor's mum's book , mid Sept which claimed that Jenna Edkins ( BabyShoes?) was still seeing Oscar when he was dating Sam and whilst he was dating Reeva.

This is what I posted but maybe its worth me buying the book now?

"BIB this is jenna Edkins. In the new Sam Taylor book, her mum Trish mentions that she knew that Op had been seeing JE DURING the relationship OP had with her daughter PLUS says she knew that OP saw (not platonically) JE whilst he was with Reeva.
I haven't bought book and found that in an online extract a few days ago - so no PROOF of this.
Maybe this is why JE is very quiet but supportive. something to hide. ?
So the Erin Stear suspicions may have been a Bum Steer?!! It was a lot closer to home...Jenna!?
Not saying this was the source of the row that night.

Will try and look for link later"

cottonweaver: it's well worth the £7. It put all of OP's ridiculous courtroom behaviour into context.

 

[jay-jay]

An interesting article on how Carl P avoided being arrested.

http://www.citypress.co.za/politics/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

Can someone explain that to me in plain English please, because I can't for the life of me work out what/how/why this deal was struck .. what was the benefit to the PT that they agreed to go along with this deal? I'm not really understanding the reasons.

 

[soozieqtips]

Can someone explain that to me in plain English please, because I can't for the life of me work out what/how/why this deal was struck .. what was the benefit to the PT that they agreed to go along with this deal? I'm not really understanding the reasons.

I'd like it explained too, jay-jay. CP removed evidence which could have been vital to the investigation. Why did he delete calls that were made after the killing? What could have been said that needed to be deleted? And how about the wasting of police time, and all the financial costs his actions incurred, with police having to fly out to Apple to try and get the information off the phone. He's a deceitful lowlife, just like his brother. Covering up for him and tampering with evidence, knowing that he was preventing Reeva's family from getting the truth about what really happened that night. As for Uncle Arnold, how proud he must be of his lying murderous clan.

 

[lithgow1]

I'd like it explained too, jay-jay. CP removed evidence which could have been vital to the investigation. Why did he delete calls that were made after the killing? What could have been said that needed to be deleted? And how about the wasting of police time, and all the financial costs his actions incurred, with police having to fly out to Apple to try and get the information off the phone. He's a deceitful lowlife, just like his brother. Covering up for him and tampering with evidence, knowing that he was preventing Reeva's family from getting the truth about what really happened that night. As for Uncle Arnold, how proud he must be of his lying murderous clan.

They'd still be a hideous and horrible bunch but their constant references to God and religion make them even harder to take, as per CP's tweet of a few days ago (below). If he really is religious, does he think that Jesus would/will be OK with the things he seems to have done? Re the BIB - Uncle Arnold strikes me as the kind of man who would be proud of them - he's probably half the reason they are such amoral creeps. Figuratively speaking, IMO Uncle A would know where all the bodies are buried as he'd have supervised the digging of the holes.

"Prayer is the outward manifestation of a heart dependent on CHRIST!" -

 

[JudgeJudi]

Lisa's new blog on "Babyshoes" and Titanium Hulk.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/babyshoes-and-titanium-hulk/

I find the way the family members quote the bible appalling and disgusting. They're 100% morally corrupt.

Interesting isn't it that apart from Carl none of them is on twitter any more. The fallout is growing by the day and is now showing they're all tarred with the same brush - but we knew that anyway.

 

[Cherwell]

Can someone explain that to me in plain English please, because I can't for the life of me work out what/how/why this deal was struck .. what was the benefit to the PT that they agreed to go along with this deal? I'm not really understanding the reasons.

I'm glad it's not just me that doesn't get it.

They'd still be a hideous and horrible bunch but their constant references to God and religion make them even harder to take, as per CP's tweet of a few days ago (below). If he really is religious, does he think that Jesus would/will be OK with the things he seems to have done? Re the BIB - Uncle Arnold strikes me as the kind of man who would be proud of them - he's probably half the reason they are such amoral creeps. Figuratively speaking, IMO Uncle A would know where all the bodies are buried as he'd have supervised the digging of the holes.

"Prayer is the outward manifestation of a heart dependent on CHRIST!" -

I said a little while ago that CP had had a warning from his God via that serious accident. Well, from somebody's God anyway. I hope there's more to come. Bring it on.