speedboats, cars, guns in restaurants, guns in bathrooms... the accidents are already happening... i hope more innocent people are not killed due to any waiting to see what happens next.
bbm
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speedboats, cars, guns in restaurants, guns in bathrooms... the accidents are already happening... i hope more innocent people are not killed due to any waiting to see what happens next.
bbm
soozieqtips
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Oscar Pistorius trial: five more unanswered questions
As Oscar Pistorius is revealed to have telephoned his ex girlfriend on the night he killed Reeva Steenkamp, here are five more unanswered questions from the trial
All questions we've already asked!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ius-trial-five-more-unanswered-questions.html
As Oscar Pistorius is revealed to have telephoned his ex girlfriend on the night he killed Reeva Steenkamp, here are five more unanswered questions from the trial
All questions we've already asked!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ius-trial-five-more-unanswered-questions.html
JudgeJudi
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O/T but ...
Anni Hindocha (aka Dewani) - What Really Happened
7 hrs · Edited ·
BREAKING NEWS: The NPA, responsible for prosecuting Shrien Dewani for the murder of Anni, have agreed with Dewani's lawyers NOT to request the trial to be televised.
This private agreement (made out of court) means the world will not see or hear Dewani on the witness stand, nor German Master, nor Tongo nor any of the other witnesses. Having waited 4 years for this trial, everyone who is not in the court room will have to rely on reading second hand write-ups from journalists.
Western Cape DPP Rodney de Kock is reported as explaining his decision to make this deal with Dewani as being due to concerns for Dewani's "health". Although this has been questioned by many people as Dewani was found not to be mentally ill by a panel of psychiatrists and unanimously deemed fit to stand trial.
More details to follow.
IMO OP's trial has had a lot to do with this decision. The NPA must be cringing with all these new developments being aired to the international community ahead of sentencing. Anni's family wanted it broadcast.
Anni Hindocha (aka Dewani) - What Really Happened
7 hrs · Edited ·
BREAKING NEWS: The NPA, responsible for prosecuting Shrien Dewani for the murder of Anni, have agreed with Dewani's lawyers NOT to request the trial to be televised.
This private agreement (made out of court) means the world will not see or hear Dewani on the witness stand, nor German Master, nor Tongo nor any of the other witnesses. Having waited 4 years for this trial, everyone who is not in the court room will have to rely on reading second hand write-ups from journalists.
Western Cape DPP Rodney de Kock is reported as explaining his decision to make this deal with Dewani as being due to concerns for Dewani's "health". Although this has been questioned by many people as Dewani was found not to be mentally ill by a panel of psychiatrists and unanimously deemed fit to stand trial.
More details to follow.
IMO OP's trial has had a lot to do with this decision. The NPA must be cringing with all these new developments being aired to the international community ahead of sentencing. Anni's family wanted it broadcast.
I was referring to this report about her testimony:
11.10 Mrs Viljoen says that she saw Pistorius once after Reeva's death, after the bail hearing. They did not discuss the incident. Nel asks when Mrs Viljoen followed Oscar upstairs when he got the handbag, were there any lights on? She can't remember.
-----------
11.03 Mrs Viljoen says she helped Pistorius's sister Aimee Pistorius to pack some clothes for her brother before he was taken away by police. She decided to take Reeva's handbag because she wanted to keep it safe "for her mother".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...torius-murder-trial-May-5-as-it-happened.html
The 5th question : "Why did the judge take into account his behaviour immediately after Steenkamp's death?
They should have asked "Why did the judge MISINTERPRET his behaviour immediately after Steenkamp's death?"
Hoosen_Fenger
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Hi JJ... I have not been on here as much as I was for a while - I needed to calm down after the complete Hash JM made of her verdict. However, I disagree with your line in bold. I am not the exception of my friends whom have all had a multitude of different people as partners. We have all dated different races, colours & appearances.
What gets me though about OP, is that his relationships were with people who until Reeva, never spoke up. I don't give a Rats Arse what JM said in her verdict, the proof of an argument is beyond reasonable doubt. His previous relationships were clearly not with people with their own high profile, nor the capacity to hold their own.
Given the revelations about deleted call logs (hideous in the extreme for the Steenkamp family to contemplate,) it is clear that the truth has not prevailed. The only hope for me is that JM has gone for CH, planning to give 15 years, in the knowledge it would be harder to appeal than Murder. However, I am not holding my breath.
JudgeJudi
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Published on 15 February 2013
It was revealed that police had been called to OPs house two hours before the shooting because neighbors complained of hearing a loud argument in the home presumably between OP and Reeva, according to SA newspaper Beeld.
Gianni Merlo, who co-authored the Blade Runner with OP, told The Associated Press in a phone interview Friday from Italy that OP once drove out in the middle of the night to see his first love after a fight. OP crashed his car when he fell asleep behind the wheel.
However, he said Pistorius once threw a friends girlfriend out of his house, prompting police to investigate and take him in for questioning.
He explained that this was a kind of (plot) against him, planned against him, Merlo said.
But police hinted at a troubled lifestyle away from public scrutiny for the runner Thursday when they said there had previously been domestic incidents at Pistorius home.
http://nypost.com/2013/02/15/police...r-reeva-steenkamp-shot-through-bathroom-door/
1st BIB Is this correct?
3rd BIB There was the Taylor-Memmory incident but what other incident/s?
Heres an interview with Taylor-Memmory that I havent seen before.
http://ewn.co.za/2014/02/12/EWN-Exclusive-Taylor-Memmory-speaks-on-Oscar-Pistorius
It was revealed that police had been called to OPs house two hours before the shooting because neighbors complained of hearing a loud argument in the home presumably between OP and Reeva, according to SA newspaper Beeld.
Gianni Merlo, who co-authored the Blade Runner with OP, told The Associated Press in a phone interview Friday from Italy that OP once drove out in the middle of the night to see his first love after a fight. OP crashed his car when he fell asleep behind the wheel.
However, he said Pistorius once threw a friends girlfriend out of his house, prompting police to investigate and take him in for questioning.
He explained that this was a kind of (plot) against him, planned against him, Merlo said.
But police hinted at a troubled lifestyle away from public scrutiny for the runner Thursday when they said there had previously been domestic incidents at Pistorius home.
http://nypost.com/2013/02/15/police...r-reeva-steenkamp-shot-through-bathroom-door/
1st BIB Is this correct?
3rd BIB There was the Taylor-Memmory incident but what other incident/s?
Heres an interview with Taylor-Memmory that I havent seen before.
http://ewn.co.za/2014/02/12/EWN-Exclusive-Taylor-Memmory-speaks-on-Oscar-Pistorius
cottonweaver
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Thanks JudgeJudi for http://ewn.co.za/2014/02/12/EWN-Excl...scar-Pistorius.
I haven't read this before. Pertinent points for me are that, my earlier presumption was wrong - that part of OP's foul mood that day was about the Cassidy Taylor-Memmory case still not being resolved. ( I presumed legal meeting he had on 13th Feb would have included that topic and thus connected to the "you're a nice guy - it's a Sh**ty thing" text. )
Cassidy-Memmory says it was resolved in December 2013. So surely he wouldn't be still talking about it at his lawyers would he in Feb?
Secondly Cassidy-Memmory is "No comment " on issues re Pistorius clan - presumably as she could only say very unpleasant things about them and she knows them to be very litigious.
"MW: How was it ultimately resolved and how do you feel about it now?
CTM: Oscar eventually dropped his case against me, but I didn’t drop mine against him. It has ultimately been resolved through a settlement in December 2013. Some days I wish I had never gone through with it all, but I stood up for myself, which was extremely difficult, especially when you feel like the whole country is against you. But I’m proud of the fact that I never backed down and I learned that you should always stand up for what is right, even when you stand alone.
MW: Does this murder case surprise you considering OP's behaviour in the past?
CTM: I don’t wish to answer.
MW: How did OP's family behave towards you during this process?
CTM: I don’t wish to answer."
Third she alludes to the smears and aggressive campaign against her, which is a little similar to the treatment Sam Taylor talks about after splitting from OP. And that tiresomely predictable "defense" from some celebs :anyone accusing them is simply after money. (We even heard that in the Saville and Clifford cases here in UK recently.)
"MW: There were also suggestions from his camp that you were chasing the money and the fame?
CTM: That is incorrect. All I wanted was an apology from Oscar and the settlement of the legal fees. I have never made a public appearance or even approached the media about it.
MW: What kind of treatment were you subjected to after the incident?
CTM: I was utterly harassed. I was harassed by the media as well as the public. I received hate mail on a daily basis. People who didn’t know me from a bar of soap were calling me the most horrific names. It became so difficult at a stage that I needed a bodyguard when I went out in public due to all the hate rants."
I haven't read this before. Pertinent points for me are that, my earlier presumption was wrong - that part of OP's foul mood that day was about the Cassidy Taylor-Memmory case still not being resolved. ( I presumed legal meeting he had on 13th Feb would have included that topic and thus connected to the "you're a nice guy - it's a Sh**ty thing" text. )
Cassidy-Memmory says it was resolved in December 2013. So surely he wouldn't be still talking about it at his lawyers would he in Feb?
Secondly Cassidy-Memmory is "No comment " on issues re Pistorius clan - presumably as she could only say very unpleasant things about them and she knows them to be very litigious.
"MW: How was it ultimately resolved and how do you feel about it now?
CTM: Oscar eventually dropped his case against me, but I didn’t drop mine against him. It has ultimately been resolved through a settlement in December 2013. Some days I wish I had never gone through with it all, but I stood up for myself, which was extremely difficult, especially when you feel like the whole country is against you. But I’m proud of the fact that I never backed down and I learned that you should always stand up for what is right, even when you stand alone.
MW: Does this murder case surprise you considering OP's behaviour in the past?
CTM: I don’t wish to answer.
MW: How did OP's family behave towards you during this process?
CTM: I don’t wish to answer."
Third she alludes to the smears and aggressive campaign against her, which is a little similar to the treatment Sam Taylor talks about after splitting from OP. And that tiresomely predictable "defense" from some celebs :anyone accusing them is simply after money. (We even heard that in the Saville and Clifford cases here in UK recently.)
"MW: There were also suggestions from his camp that you were chasing the money and the fame?
CTM: That is incorrect. All I wanted was an apology from Oscar and the settlement of the legal fees. I have never made a public appearance or even approached the media about it.
MW: What kind of treatment were you subjected to after the incident?
CTM: I was utterly harassed. I was harassed by the media as well as the public. I received hate mail on a daily basis. People who didn’t know me from a bar of soap were calling me the most horrific names. It became so difficult at a stage that I needed a bodyguard when I went out in public due to all the hate rants."
PrimeSuspect
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Great article soozie! We'll keep asking those questions till we're blue in the face.
JudgeJudi
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O/T but I'm sure many of you will want to know that ...
“EWN will be live blogging the Dewani trial on this page. Our first coverage will start on the evening of Sunday, 05 October. In the meantime, be sure to visit our Facebook page and Twitter accounts for announcements and updates.”
http://ewn.co.za/Features/dewani-live-blog
“EWN will be live blogging the Dewani trial on this page. Our first coverage will start on the evening of Sunday, 05 October. In the meantime, be sure to visit our Facebook page and Twitter accounts for announcements and updates.”
http://ewn.co.za/Features/dewani-live-blog
geevee
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RS&BBM
Thanks for finding that - how could it have escaped notice until now? Does the Beeld article cite sources or provide more details?
PrimeSuspect
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This is the interview I remember at the time the news broke.
The press interview the policewoman at the scene on the morning of 14 Feb, 2013. She mentions briefly about previous incidents at the property. She also talks about the witnesses who heard 'things' and that the police will be opposing bail.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/14/oscar-pistorius-murder-girlfriends-shooting
The press interview the policewoman at the scene on the morning of 14 Feb, 2013. She mentions briefly about previous incidents at the property. She also talks about the witnesses who heard 'things' and that the police will be opposing bail.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/14/oscar-pistorius-murder-girlfriends-shooting
JudgeJudi
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There was a link but it no longer worked. I tried it a couple of times but no luck.
There were no further details.
Rapport, sister paper to Beeld, reported:
which Google has translated to :
I think the meaning is clear. The Rapport chronology had some good detail in it, but it contained some inaccuracies too. I think this was rightly discounted as being one of those. It would have been brought up in court otherwise.
I can't provide a working link because Rapport pulled the page a few days ago.
This was the link: http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/So-ontvou-die-drama-20130216
ETA: But in true sleuthing fashion, I've found this (a very useful site for web pages that are pulled or changed):
http://web.archive.org/web/20130218...Suid-Afrika/Nuus/So-ontvou-die-drama-20130216
This shows the original page that was pulled and Rapport's complete chronology at that time. I imagine it was the same in Beeld. You'll see I have referenced some of it in my Timeline for 13 Feb 2013, highlighting what I think are inaccuracies, giving reasons and moving the event appropriately. I ignored the 01:30 call as being completed unfounded.
I think the NPA is just spinning to cover its arse.
It's clear they could prosecute for tampering with the evidence no matter what was deleted.
But the general public might not know that so it makes a good story
JudgeJudi
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Published 30 June3 2013
I just loved reading this old article. Now that we know what his family is like, you can decide for yourself which you choose to believe. Pistorius speak at its finest. (Relevant bits only)
OP was once more looking for speed in the form of a luxury Audi R8.
He was twice seen at an Audi dealership in Johannesburg where he was allegedly buying an R8.
The cheapest version costs R1.5 million and the fastest reaches 317km/h.
Anneliese Burgess initially said OP had gone to buy a car, but denied it was for him.
Arnold Pistorius said he sent OP there to buy a car for him.
Later, Burgess had a different story. She misunderstood Arnold because he whispered to her as he was phoning from a meeting. She said OP had gone to trade in his car for a second-hand Audi, but wouldnt disclose the model.
She confirmed that OP had gone to the dealership a second time but said the visit was meant to take care of the paperwork for his uncle who had also bought an Audi there. And that was not a luxurious R8, she said.
The sources said a red Audi R8 was delivered recently, but they couldnt confirm whether this car was destined for OP.
The Audi Centre declined to comment officially.
Witnesses said OP was surrounded by bodyguards on the first visit.
A few days later he was accompanied by a beautiful female companion.
Two employees at Audi Rivonia confirmed he was accompanied by a beautiful young woman on the first occasion.
Burgess said his female companion was his cousin and denied that he was accompanied by bodyguards on the first occasion.
City Press spoke to two sources close to the dealership. According to one, a brash OP arrived with several bodyguards.
He was apparently demanding to know about the delivery of the sports car.
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-takes-beautiful-young-woman-to-see-his-racy-r1-5m-audi-r8/
I just loved reading this old article. Now that we know what his family is like, you can decide for yourself which you choose to believe. Pistorius speak at its finest. (Relevant bits only)
OP was once more looking for speed in the form of a luxury Audi R8.
He was twice seen at an Audi dealership in Johannesburg where he was allegedly buying an R8.
The cheapest version costs R1.5 million and the fastest reaches 317km/h.
Anneliese Burgess initially said OP had gone to buy a car, but denied it was for him.
Arnold Pistorius said he sent OP there to buy a car for him.
Later, Burgess had a different story. She misunderstood Arnold because he whispered to her as he was phoning from a meeting. She said OP had gone to trade in his car for a second-hand Audi, but wouldnt disclose the model.
She confirmed that OP had gone to the dealership a second time but said the visit was meant to take care of the paperwork for his uncle who had also bought an Audi there. And that was not a luxurious R8, she said.
The sources said a red Audi R8 was delivered recently, but they couldnt confirm whether this car was destined for OP.
The Audi Centre declined to comment officially.
Witnesses said OP was surrounded by bodyguards on the first visit.
A few days later he was accompanied by a beautiful female companion.
Two employees at Audi Rivonia confirmed he was accompanied by a beautiful young woman on the first occasion.
Burgess said his female companion was his cousin and denied that he was accompanied by bodyguards on the first occasion.
City Press spoke to two sources close to the dealership. According to one, a brash OP arrived with several bodyguards.
He was apparently demanding to know about the delivery of the sports car.
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-takes-beautiful-young-woman-to-see-his-racy-r1-5m-audi-r8/
The EWN news report says:
But on the other hand the City Press report says:
The latter supports my theory that not all the data was deleted.
The problem the police had was that you can't do much with messages you don't have.
If my theory is correct though, the messages that the phone did contain would prove that it had been tampered with but the police probably wouldn't have thought to look at them much beyond the basic time, addressee and content information. The messages would appear to be an innocuous exchange about cars etc. and would be consistent with OP's EIC and Binge's Witness Statement. I notified them late August that there was an apparent inconsistency between the GPRS records and the Binge WhatsApp exchange.
Unfortunately, it is the nature of sleuthing that we have to investigate things without all the evidence that the police have and so I don't know whether there is in fact an innocent explanation for this.
Thanks for the response!
So it seems possible there was no WhatsApp exhibit to support OPs story.
Stranger and stranger
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