awaiting sentencing phase

[Mr Fossil]

I have never used Whatsapp and know diddly-squat about it but surely all of his whatsapps to RS remained on her phone together with her answers. That may have been the reason he tried to use RS's phone but he couldn't get past the lock code. He must know you can phone an emergency facility on an iphone so his excuse for not being able to do so was another one of his lame lies. So what was on his phone that he didn't want anyone to find out. Whatsapps between girlfriends and he which may have shown his infidelity? What else would make him wish to erase the contents? Any ideas?

IMO exactly that. And they would have occurred when we see the 3 GPRS activations post-22:30 through to 01:48. This proves not only is he awake but also gives credence to the argument heard by EvdM. Reeva has spotted what he's up to and an argument ensues that ultimately leads to Reeva being shot. And if we had the content we'd know for sure.

And if this scenario is what happened then there is at least one other person complicit in withholding evidence.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'm also hoping for at least some prison time, partly because I think he is so desperate to not spend any time there at all that he may well appeal, against all advice, and things may well work out worse for him if he takes that route.

Sadly I'm in agreement with those who don't believe in karma. Would like to, but too many 'bad' people prosper so unless it takes a form unrecognisable to us I can't put any hope or faith in it. If there's no prison sentence the only punishment I can see for OP is a tortured subconscious that haunts his dreams as he doesn't seem too burdened by conscience at any other time.

Snap. I hope he gets prison time. He has got away with murder already. I wonder what he is up to at the moment. Having a fun time in Mozambique or Cape Town. They seem to be two of his haunts. It amazing how he seems to suddenly forget all his troubles when he leaves the court.

I am with you on karma. I would have to believe in some omnipotent being or spirit to believe it and my imagination just does not stretch that far. I really hope he does have tortured dreams and wakes up screaming, but do you know - I doubt he will. I am cynical and tend to think anything we have heard to that effect was for public consumption and didn't really happen.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Would an intruder flush the loo? OP must have heard it flush so I would have thought it support's the prosecution case. At the very least, OP should have checked if it was Reeva in the loo. Perhaps it flushes silently.

If Reeva was in a panic after locking herself in the toilet, she may have accidentally flushed it while trying to open the toilet window. Just offering another scenario. Either way, OP should have heard it, imo.

 

[WilliamMunter]

I have never used Whatsapp and know diddly-squat about it but surely all of his whatsapps to RS remained on her phone together with her answers. That may have been the reason he tried to use RS's phone but he couldn't get past the lock code. He must know you can phone an emergency facility on an iphone so his excuse for not being able to do so was another one of his lame lies. So what was on his phone that he didn't want anyone to find out. Whatsapps between girlfriends and he which may have shown his infidelity? What else would make him wish to erase the contents? Any ideas?

Well........

Here is one thing. I don't know how old/young it is but it appears to be Pistorious's.

http://www.singlesaroundme.com/Mobile/ShowUser.aspx?uid=oz8000

IMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I know this recent case can't be directly compared with OPs, but just look at the sentence this South African killer got for CH .....

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Convicted-killer-sentenced-to-community-service-20140930

Apologies if it's been posted before and I've missed it.

Thanks for link to article, he sure got off lightly compared to other parts of the world. In his favour though, he walked away from a fight where he was punched, and it was self defense, one stab and the man died unfortunately.
The families have forgiven each other which seems to go a long way there, it certainly is a very different system in SA that I'm used to.

 

[Interested Bystander]

In answer to William Munter's post

I suppose it could be but he was born on 22nd November and that is the last day of Scorpio. I had to look that up as I know nothing about astrology. I am told that different charts can show slightly different dates. I have no idea but perhaps you know better. He did go to Pretoria University but didn't graduate - not that changes anything. However, it certainly looks a possibility but also could be applicable to many.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Liars. Murderers. Thieves. “Christians”.

How do they pray at night?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Oscar Pistorius trial

Another message from Pistorius to Steenkamp about his shoulder:

I'm not going. My shoulder is stuffed

New message read to court -

January 23, 2013:

I'm just in the Physio Baba

(Physio is physical therapy. Roux says this refers to his shoulder injury which explains why he slept on the other side of the bed)

Ok, OP went to physio for shoulder on Jan 23rd, so how come on Feb 12 he slept on his usual right side of bed but then on Feb 13 he had to sleep on left side? Did the injury return?



Moller is going to testify on the iPhones, Blackberries and iPads and a MacBook computer that were taken from Pistorius' house.

Moller explains that Pistorius upgraded his phones from Blackberry to iPhone and had to get two new SIM cards for the new phones. Same number, but different serial numbers for the new SIM cards. Moller says this is called "sim-swapping"

Would this be significant, the different sim-cards?

Moller says he usually takes the SIM card out from a smartphone so that it's removed from the network and can't be tampered with remotely.

Would be good to know when Moller removed the SIM card, once the phones were seized from property, a day, a week later?

Moller established Steenkamp's number by looking at the last dialed number on Pistorius' phone. He did the same for Pistorius' phone. He didn't realize that Pistorius had two phones.

Moller asked for the serial numbers on the SIM cards as well as the billing data from the service providers. He discovered then that there was an additional number belonging to Pistorius that wasn't seized from the crime scene.

The Blackberries hadn't been used for about two months.


The third phone was given to the South African investigators on February 26, 2013. It underwent three downloads - Apple and two different software downloads.


Now we look at Pistorius' phones. The last time he used a phone was at midnight on February 13, 2013.

Is this correct? So they know OP wasn't asleep at 10 pm till 3am?

Moller: on Oscar’s 4949 number there were no voice calls in the period, only 5 internet connections. BB

Pistorius called someone at 8:25 p.m. February 13, 2013. This was the last voice call made before Steenkamp was shot.

After the last voice call there were four internet connections made by the phone.


Pistorius, looking every inch the lawyer, is holding the phone records & pointing to them with his legal team gathered round #OscarPistorius



http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_trial_4?Page=60

 

[Lux et Veritas]

“... we are not aware of any deletions having been affected by Oscar or effected on his instructions that could be relevant to this trial or could have impacted on this trial. ... As far as we are aware all relevant communications were put before the court.”
- Pistorius family press statement, Oct. 1, 2014

TRANSLATION:

“As everyone on the planet is aware, we made damn sure to delete any and all digital communications that were relevant to this trial (including, but not limited to, phone calls, texts, contacts, emails, photos and What Ups) ... plus any damning data relevant to the Pistorius family reputation, fortune and brand. Anything that could have negatively impacted, incriminated or helped convict our little Oz was zapped. We are blessed that our dear Carl is so amazing with the tech! I knew that IT degree would be a great investment.

(OZZIE!! Time for bed! Don’t forget to brush your teeth and take your meds! Aimee’s put an extra fluffy pillow in your cupboard and she’ll bring up your cookies and milk shortly! Oh, and STOP squirting your sister with that water pistol! It’s childish and rude. That’s why your armed guards up and quit!)

Where was I?

Oh, yes.

Beyond today’s unfortunate news release - as always, we deny everything in the strongest possible terms, so forth and etcetera. Just saying.”

- Uncle Arnold, addressing journalists from his Waterkloof home

(LOIS!! Make sure Oz takes two GREEN pills and one PURPLE! I don’t want to have to explain to MiLady how Oz ended up at the VIP Room wearing a Super-Sports-Hero costume, crying and begging people to let him autograph their cocktail napkins!)

 

[Sherbert]

Exactly. Somebody else has to be complicit in all this, not just Carl, if the WhatsApp messages were the trigger that led to OP killing Reeva.

But how would Reeva have seen the Whatsapps if OP was as careful with his passcodes as Samantha Taylor claims?

One thing that I have observed is that, although my ipad is password protected, anyone who picks it up can see my latest imessages displayed on the screen without logging in.

IMO, a jealous and possessive person like OP would be bound to pick up Reeva's ipad if she left it unattended - to go downstairs for a snack, for example.

 

[geevee]

If Reeva was in a panic after locking herself in the toilet, she may have accidentally flushed it while trying to open the toilet window. Just offering another scenario. Either way, OP should have heard it, imo.

I think in a porcelain bowl holding water, the sides will remain moist after flushing for some time, so I don't think it needed to have been flushed immediately before the shooting to create the striped pattern of blood. If they had been arguing for an hour and she was planning to leave, she may have used the bathroom a little while before he got the bat and gun out.

 

[Mr Fossil]

But how would Reeva have seen the Whatsapps if OP was as careful with his passcodes as Samantha Taylor claims?

One thing that I have observed is that, although my ipad is password protected, anyone who picks it up can see my latest imessages displayed on the screen without logging in.

IMO, a jealous and possessive person like OP would be bound to pick up Reeva's ipad if she left it unattended - to go downstairs for a snack, for example.

Sam Taylor said he often sent messages when in bed. We know that he's also an insomniac. Perhaps Reeva was asleep and he was texting quietly in bed at 01:48. She turns over and asks "Baba can't you sleep?". She sees the screen of his phone and recognises the WhatsApp message screen. She asks what he's doing. He replies nothing, it's just a friend. She may ask what a friend would want, texting at that time of night ... but she's suspicious. Perhaps she sees a name. An argument ensues ... perhaps she grabs his phone to look at it .... perhaps it's his phone she has in the toilet (which is why he places her phone there in his testimony) ...

ETA There's a setting to decide whether messages appear on your front screen or not

 

[sleuth-d-]

Oscar Pistorius trial

Another message from Pistorius to Steenkamp about his shoulder:

I'm not going. My shoulder is stuffed

New message read to court -

January 23, 2013:

I'm just in the Physio Baba

(Physio is physical therapy. Roux says this refers to his shoulder injury which explains why he slept on the other side of the bed)

Ok, OP went to physio for shoulder on Jan 23rd, so how come on Feb 12 he slept on his usual right side of bed but then on Feb 13 he had to sleep on left side? Did the injury return?



Moller is going to testify on the iPhones, Blackberries and iPads and a MacBook computer that were taken from Pistorius' house.

Moller explains that Pistorius upgraded his phones from Blackberry to iPhone and had to get two new SIM cards for the new phones. Same number, but different serial numbers for the new SIM cards. Moller says this is called "sim-swapping"

Would this be significant, the different sim-cards?

Moller says he usually takes the SIM card out from a smartphone so that it's removed from the network and can't be tampered with remotely.

Would be good to know when Moller removed the SIM card, once the phones were seized from property, a day, a week later?

Moller established Steenkamp's number by looking at the last dialed number on Pistorius' phone. He did the same for Pistorius' phone. He didn't realize that Pistorius had two phones.

Moller asked for the serial numbers on the SIM cards as well as the billing data from the service providers. He discovered then that there was an additional number belonging to Pistorius that wasn't seized from the crime scene.

The Blackberries hadn't been used for about two months.


The third phone was given to the South African investigators on February 26, 2013. It underwent three downloads - Apple and two different software downloads.


Now we look at Pistorius' phones. The last time he used a phone was at midnight on February 13, 2013.

Is this correct? So they know OP wasn't asleep at 10 pm till 3am?

Moller: on Oscar’s 4949 number there were no voice calls in the period, only 5 internet connections. BB

Pistorius called someone at 8:25 p.m. February 13, 2013. This was the last voice call made before Steenkamp was shot.

After the last voice call there were four internet connections made by the phone.


Pistorius, looking every inch the lawyer, is holding the phone records & pointing to them with his legal team gathered round #OscarPistorius



http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_trial_4?Page=60

that 'last use of the phone at midnight' seems odd. as there are internet connections before that time, and after... but the phone was not connected at midnight.

surely moller has entered the four internet connections as evidence here... were the four internet connections in nel's closing argument? or was op's phone record somehow then silenced by the 'carl argeement'?

seems so odd that all this has been overlooked/ignored by the court. it is directly relevant to op's version that he was asleep... and is that 'telephone data' that masipa expressly preferred to witness testimony.

unfortunately, i guess if questioned op would have said he was just checking the weather, or similar... phone activation is no proof of an argument.

 

[jay-jay]

Sam Taylor said he often sent messages when in bed. We know that he's also an insomniac. Perhaps Reeva was asleep and he was texting quietly in bed at 01:48. She turns over and asks "Baba can't you sleep?". She sees the screen of his phone and recognises the WhatsApp message screen. She asks what he's doing. He replies nothing, it's just a friend. She may ask what a friend would want, texting at that time of night ... but she's suspicious. Perhaps she sees a name. An argument ensues ... perhaps she grabs his phone to look at it .... perhaps it's his phone she has in the toilet (which is why he places her phone there in his testimony) ...

ETA There's a setting to decide whether messages appear on your front screen or not

Bit in red ... yes, and with him on the RH side of the bed, where that propped up pillow is. He is sat up there, texting (or 'sexting') someone, and as you say, Reeva turns over and sees it.

 

[mrjitty]

that 'last use of the phone at midnight' seems odd. as there are internet connections before that time, and after... but the phone was not connected at midnight.

surely moller has entered the four internet connections as evidence here... were the four internet connections in nel's closing argument? or was op's phone record somehow then silenced by the 'carl argeement'?

seems so odd that all this has been overlooked/ignored by the court. it is directly relevant to op's version that he was asleep... and is that 'telephone data' that masipa expressly preferred to witness testimony.

unfortunately, i guess if questioned op would have said he was just checking the weather, or similar... phone activation is no proof of an argument.

The GPRS connections were raised but it could not be excluded that they were robot initiated....

... because of course CP deleted the relevant messages

 

[sleuth-d-]

Sam Taylor said he often sent messages when in bed. We know that he's also an insomniac. Perhaps Reeva was asleep and he was texting quietly in bed at 01:48. She turns over and asks "Baba can't you sleep?". She sees the screen of his phone and recognises the WhatsApp message screen. She asks what he's doing. He replies nothing, it's just a friend. She may ask what a friend would want, texting at that time of night ... but she's suspicious. Perhaps she sees a name. An argument ensues ... perhaps she grabs his phone to look at it .... perhaps it's his phone she has in the toilet (which is why he places her phone there in his testimony) ...

ETA There's a setting to decide whether messages appear on your front screen or not

certainly possible that she woke and caught him messaging, and saw something that she shouldn't have seen. and whatever happens with the phone at 01:48 ties in [timewise] with mrs vdm hearing an argument starting [01:56].

the phone is then switched back to airplane mode though [according to your records - 01:53], so i doubt reeva had it for the next hour or so and also did the airplane mode thing...

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Published 30 June3 2013

I just loved reading this old article. Now that we know what his family is like, you can decide for yourself which you choose to believe. Pistorius speak at its finest. (Relevant bits only)

OP was once more looking for speed – in the form of a luxury Audi R8.

He was twice seen at an Audi dealership in Johannesburg where he was allegedly buying an R8.

The cheapest version costs R1.5 million and the fastest reaches 317km/h.

Anneliese Burgess initially said OP had gone to buy a car, but denied it was for him.

Arnold Pistorius said he sent OP there to buy a car for him.

Later, Burgess had a different story. She misunderstood Arnold because he “whispered” to her as he was phoning from a meeting. She said OP had gone to trade in his car for a second-hand Audi, but wouldn’t disclose the model.

She confirmed that OP had gone to the dealership a second time but said the visit was meant to take care of the “paperwork” for his uncle who had also bought an Audi there. And that was not a luxurious R8, she said.

The sources said a red Audi R8 was delivered recently, but they couldn’t confirm whether this car was destined for OP.
The Audi Centre declined to comment officially.

Witnesses said OP was surrounded by bodyguards on the first visit.
A few days later he was accompanied by a beautiful female companion.
Two employees at Audi Rivonia confirmed he was accompanied by a beautiful young woman on the first occasion.
Burgess said his female companion was his cousin and denied that he was accompanied by bodyguards on the first occasion.

City Press spoke to two sources close to the dealership. According to one, a “brash” OP arrived with several bodyguards.

He was apparently “demanding” to know about the delivery of the sports car.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-takes-beautiful-young-woman-to-see-his-racy-r1-5m-audi-r8/

Poor Oz. Apparently reduced to buying used Audis (one must scrimp and trade down when one is a social pariah and unemployable).

No doubt he’s BANNED from setting foot in former friend Justin Divaris’ Daytona Group luxury auto dealership.

Alas, the new world-record McLaren 650S Spider will never be his! :lol:
https://twitter.com/DaytonaGroup/status/516532415763075072

He can only read Darren Fresco’s tweets to Francois Hougaard lauding the McLaren P1 and weep uncontrollably. LOL
https://twitter.com/TheFrisco_kid/status/507191999502749696



(Oh and btw, just how many beautiful female “cousins” does Oz have? Was this the same “cousin” who accompanied him to the VIP Room? LOL)

 

[Mr Fossil]

certainly possible that she woke and caught him messaging, and saw something that she shouldn't have seen. and whatever happens with the phone at 01:48 ties in [timewise] with mrs vdm hearing an argument starting [01:56].

the phone is then switched back to airplane mode though [according to your records - 01:53], so i doubt reeva had it for the next hour or so and also did the airplane mode thing...

Perhaps he hastily switched it back to airplane mode as soon as she spots him using the phone. A reply to his last message would be more than inconvenient at this point in time. But his answers to her questions are evasive and she doesn't believe him. She grabs the phone to look at what he's been doing before his timeout can automatically activate his passcode lock ... she doesn't need a signal to look at the phone and didn't realise that OP has been putting his phone in Airplane mode whenever he is with her and not using the phone (as per his phone records). But it also meant she couldn't use the phone to call for help later (like maybe she threatened to do when in the toilet). She probably thought there wasn't a signal. She could have used Emergency mode if she'd realised it was in Airplane mode and/or thought to go back to the passcode screen.

 

[Sherbert]

Thanks JudgeJudi for http://ewn.co.za/2014/02/12/EWN-Excl...scar-Pistorius.

I haven't read this before. Pertinent points for me are that, my earlier presumption was wrong - that part of OP's foul mood that day was about the Cassidy Taylor-Memmory case still not being resolved. ( I presumed legal meeting he had on 13th Feb would have included that topic and thus connected to the "you're a nice guy - it's a Sh**ty thing" text. )

Cassidy-Memmory says it was resolved in December 2013. So surely he wouldn't be still talking about it at his lawyers would he in Feb?

Secondly Cassidy-Memmory is "No comment " on issues re Pistorius clan - presumably as she could only say very unpleasant things about them and she knows them to be very litigious.

"MW: How was it ultimately resolved and how do you feel about it now?

CTM: Oscar eventually dropped his case against me, but I didn’t drop mine against him. It has ultimately been resolved through a settlement in December 2013. Some days I wish I had never gone through with it all, but I stood up for myself, which was extremely difficult, especially when you feel like the whole country is against you. But I’m proud of the fact that I never backed down and I learned that you should always stand up for what is right, even when you stand alone.

MW: Does this murder case surprise you considering OP's behaviour in the past?

CTM: I don’t wish to answer.

MW: How did OP's family behave towards you during this process?

CTM: I don’t wish to answer."

Third she alludes to the smears and aggressive campaign against her, which is a little similar to the treatment Sam Taylor talks about after splitting from OP. And that tiresomely predictable "defense" from some celebs :anyone accusing them is simply after money. (We even heard that in the Saville and Clifford cases here in UK recently.)

"MW: There were also suggestions from his camp that you were chasing the money and the fame?

CTM: That is incorrect. All I wanted was an apology from Oscar and the settlement of the legal fees. I have never made a public appearance or even approached the media about it.

MW: What kind of treatment were you subjected to after the incident?

CTM: I was utterly harassed. I was harassed by the media as well as the public. I received hate mail on a daily basis. People who didn’t know me from a bar of soap were calling me the most horrific names. It became so difficult at a stage that I needed a bodyguard when I went out in public due to all the hate rants."

Cottonweaver, I believe the chronology is as follows:

13 February 2013 Taylor-Memmory case is due to be heard on 20 February 2013
14 February 2013 OP kills Reeva
15 February 2013 Taylor-Memmory case is postponed indefinitely
18 Dec 2013 Taylor-Memmory case is settled

http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global%5B_id%5D=95764

Also, I'm beginning to wonder if OP had been planning to see Jenna Edkins on the evening of 13 February? This might explain why he told his friends that he needed to get back to Silverwoods as Reeva wanted to spend a quiet evening with him, when she'd made it quite clear that she was planning on leaving his place and wanted him to do his own thing. (I suspect he'd have found it a little awkward to tell them that he was opting out of a boys' night out in order to hook up with his Ex).

If so, OP had two reasons to be in a foul mood that evening:

1. Taylor-Memmory wasn't settling
2. His plan to see Jenna was thwarted because poor Reeva hadn't gone home as planned, but was still at his place, perfecting her speech and getting her chores done.

So, why did Reeva stick around that evening? Did she feel obliged to, knowing he'd had bad news and thinking he'd left his friends to be with her?

Did OP want her to leave, but couldn't make this clear without arousing suspicion? For someone who'd been so full on, I thought his 'stay tonight if you like' seemed quite casual.

The alternative, of course, is that, Jenna was plan B and that, whether or not he firmed up his arrangement with her depended upon Reeva's availability.

MOO

 

[Mr Fossil]

The GPRS connections were raised but it could not be excluded that they were robot initiated....

... because of course CP deleted the relevant messages

My point is that for GPRS to be activated someone had to get a signal on the phone. GPRS is an 'always on' service as I understand it, and I believe OP uses Airplane mode to disconnect his phone from the network. That stops him receiving inconvenient messages whilst he's with Reeva, but she'll think the phone is on as normal. So this means he's awake. And why would he activate his phone?