awaiting sentencing phase

[K.T]

Imo, that is why people are just throwing their hands up, OJ all over again. I remember the poster S, before I signed up, he always asked the big questions to which there were no answers, and really could a trial continue with so many things amiss, I used to believe no.

JE seems to be one of those silly young women that will be loyal at all costs, she probably believes she will survive them all and become the 'one', Mrs P. :gaah:

There was such a lot of attention early on, that a call from Francis Hougaarden might have been the trigger for their argument.

Now we have proof of a conversation just before killing with long term on/off girlfriend Jenna Elkins.

This is explosive, certainly it would have bee an important issue if there had been a jury trial.

 

[jay-jay]

because in the FIRST Police press conference to the media outside Silverwoods a policewoman said Oscar had been arrested and a woman had been killed and that it was a Domestic Violence situation where police were called to Oscar's house. The SECOND press conference outside Silverwoods was an 'update' by the same policewoman , and in that , she asked by a Journo if she was aware of rumours that had come out on the radio that Oscar had shot his girlfriend mistaking her for a burglar. The policewoman said she was NOT aware of that information ,and that it hadn't come from the police -

Interesting too that I can't find that FIRST media conference on youtube anymore, I can only find the SECOND !!! -hmm perhaps Lawyers stepped in !

~rsbm~

I only saw that video fairly recently, that's one very big smelling rat if it's been wiped! I'll have another look later to see if I can find it, but I can confirm that I did see it (again .. I had already seen it a while back) no longer than a month or two ago.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Maybe he has the 'booty call' thing going on.

And then there's Jenna, dating her on and off for years ... "friend with benefits" perhaps?

 

[jay-jay]

~rsbm~

I only saw that video fairly recently, that's one very big smelling rat if it's been wiped! I'll have another look later to see if I can find it, but I can confirm that I did see it (again .. I had already seen it a while back) no longer than a month or two ago.

That's really weird .. I can't seem to find the first one now, either .. I deffo saw it not that long ago, but now I am only finding the second one too. Even youtube clips like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1auR6p8dphA that actually states underneath it about 'previous incidents at that house', the actual video does not appear to be the one in which she says that .. she said it in the first press conference, but the video clip is the second press conference. Surely the Pistorius clan have not gone to such lengths as to have that first clip replaced with the second one, all over the internet? .. well, yes, I should imagine they probably have!

It's stupid though, because if you put Brigadier Denise Beukes' quote into google (i.e. "I can confirm there have previously been incidents at the home of Oscar Pistorius – allegations of a domestic nature") then it comes up with hundreds of returns, so they might think they can scrub that snippet of information by pulling/replacing all the videos of it, but they haven't been able to change or scrub that actual quote, it's still there for all to read, even if people can no longer see the video of her saying it. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=I+can+c...+Pistorius+–+allegations+of+a+domestic+nature

 

[Mr Fossil]

I have taken the liberty of adding a Theory tab to my Witness testimony analysis. It's not finished yet but it covers the core of what transpired that night: what caused the argument that EvdM heard and why she only heard Reeva's half, why they were arguing and why OP flew into a rage ultimately shooting Reeva.

It's a theory but I think it fits the evidence, let me know what you think.

 

[jay-jay]

http://www.singlesaroundme.com/Mobile/ShowUser.aspx?uid=oz8000

I'm pretty sure it is his dating profile. Why? Well...

The Pistorius boys both made the same mistake with user names. Carl uses "Titanium Hulk" both in his email address and as the name of his computer. Oscar here in this profile uses OZ8000 as his user name, which is also part of his personal email address.

They don't seem to have much computer savvy, do they .. idiots.

 

[Estelle]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...84331&highlight=real+estate+agent#post9784331

I posted this on 26 August, 2013 as I was interested in what led up to events that occurred that night. I am now wondering if "the boys night out" was really going to be a date with Jenna Edkins. IMO OP or his lawyers could have got Divaris, Greyvenstein, Alex and Binge to lie in their statements about OP's movements on 13th February, 2013 and also to give a glowing report of how OP felt about RS to distract the police.

What I wrote last year begins here:

Oscar Pistorius wanted 'boys' night out' prior to shooting RS
25 Aug 2013 00:01

On 13 February, a friend had tried to persuade OP to go for dinner with them but RS asked him to stay home so she could cook a romantic dinner for him

In a statement, OP's best friend, Justin Divaris, said: “I tried to convince OP to stay in Johannesburg that night and come for a boys’ dinner.”

Divaris’s girlfriend Sam Greyvenstein, 29, had asked RS to watch a movie with her, but RS had said no.

Graham Binge, 33, told police OP had said on February 13 that he and RS planned to live together. He said: “OP said he had bought a new house in Johannesburg.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...d-boys-2217207

Comment: Why has it taken the Mirror over six months to report what Justin Divaris and Sam Greyvenstein said at the bail hearing?

Unfortunately what Divaris said has since been found to be untrue after police found evidence of a call between him and OP on the evening of February 13. That is why he and Sam Greyvenstein are now on the Prosecution's witness list.

However, the Telegraph reported that Valerie Berkow-Kaye, a real estate agent, attended a party with OP on the afternoon of February 13 — hours before the shooting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ainst-him.html

"OP's cousin, Graham Binge, 33, told police that OP had said on February 13 that he and Reeva planned to live together"

Graham Binge is OP's cousin and yet another family member prepared to say anything they can to try to make it look as if OP was serious about RS. OP had no plans whatsoever to do so, just the same as there is no evidence to back up their claims that OP planned to take RS travelling with him.

Why would he? What evidence there is, is not just that he was seeing other women but that he had planned to finish with RS? OP had not even bought her a Valentine's Day present or even a card. There are people on the State's witness list who could testify that OP had agreed to meet her at his house that evening with the intention of ending it face to face with RS. That is why he had not garaged his car earlier and had left the keys in the ignition as if he was intending to go out again to join the boys.

"Graham Binge said: "OP said he had bought a new house in Johannesburg."

OP had bought a house but that was in the previous December 2012. I doubt very much that he would have waited two months to tell his cousin he had done so. I have no doubt that RS expected to be asked to move in, just the same as she had expected to be taken as his guest to events that he was invited to in Cape Town at the end of January but he did not take her with him as is now known. OP cheated on RS in those days and he kept in touch with another woman.

However, her parents reported
that RS, a law graduate, had planned to return to Port Elizabeth and set up a legal firm to add to her income from modelling.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2d3sLlqlg

OP "did tweet a photo in December in which he said he was enjoying the sun and RS company" but at no other time in December (or any other time) did OP tweet such a thing. From 29 November to 14 December, OP was abroad, during which time he tweeted RS only once in response to a tweet from her.

On his return, they did not meet up until 19 December when OP was having lunch with a friend and RS and her friend turned up at the same place. Later that evening, OP got some friends together for a second birthday celebration. However, OP spent hours into the early hours of the morning on the phone talking to someone who had not been able to be there because they had to fly out urgently the day before.

Following that, they didn't see each other until 23 December. They did not even spend Christmas together and on 26 December, OP flew to Cape Town for New Year without RS. RS made (and also paid) her own way there on 1st January although he had not invited her to join him.

The Daily Mail reported:
Reeva’s romantic break with her boyfriend at Christmas, however, did not happen. She called home to say she was spending the festive season with girlfriends and OP had gone to Cape Town with other friends. ‘We didn’t know what to make of it,’ says June. ‘Girls don’t tell their mothers everything. But she sounded all right and seemed to know where Oscar was and what he was doing. It was strange, though, and we missed her so much that day.’

June’s concerns mounted when OP was spotted partying on a friend’s yacht in Cape Town during the holidays. One newspaper headline asked: ‘Where’s Reeva?’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2d3uAPs25

 

[jay-jay]

you won't find the first one, it disappeared in about April - the only one that's still available is the second one - but i've not seen it for a long time, the second one starts with the policewoman saying 'this is an update' ....Oscar's people had started putting out the Burglar story by then.......but the wording became INTRUDER(it's so much more impactful using INTRUDER than burglar-probably recommended by Oldwadge !)

, the whole thing stinks - it did from the start with reports in the press that when police attending the scene Oscar's trophies were found strewn over his front room indicating they'd been an argument in that house ---- all of that quickly disappeared didn't it, the police either saw that or they didn't , my guess is , it's like the lesser spotted disappearing expensive watch that the police were supposed to have stolen and the extension cord going missing ...it all went walkies.

First thing to do after a murder is frame the police, so OP somehow removed that expensive watch (the case had blood on it as did the watches in it, Oscar was only person with blood on him!) (or the sister took 2 away) , and blame it on police corruption- then open window to make it look like you had reason to think there was a intruder in your house to bolster your story, call your lawyer, and pick up evidence in the house that looked like you had a row and things got nasty with your girlfriend before you shot and killed her. AND remove evidence the prosecution presents that could harm your story ie lose the extension cord that shows you were lying about plugging in the fans.

..it's going to be a great movie (sarcasm) -

Masipa should also tell Oscar he is not to make any profits from any media organisation, interviews, in any shape or form out of this Trial or those connected to it- and then I hope to god after this case is done, the Steenkamps rinse the guy dry , take the shirt off his back - he has ol Uncle Arnie to fund him , the Steenkamps have nothing, not even Justice for someone murdering their daughter in cold blood by someone she loved and where she thought she was safe, having been shot and killed , suffering and in pain, scared and alone , lying helpless on a toilet floor. It saddens me to see Oscar's relief getting off a Murder Charge- and witnesses who came forward to do the right thing in the name of Justice...... telling how they heard Reeva scream for her life and they were all ignored by that Court.

:goodpost: .. every word of it .. and I am particularly sceptical about the bit I've bolded about the trophies .. I bet you any money you like that is how they were originally, and that is one of the reasons why the police believed it to have been a DV incident (along with the fact that the police are generally not stupid, they've seen it all before, and they know how murderers lie).

 

[jay-jay]

If it were true, but, on balance, I think it must be someone impersonating him. Why would he risk using his own nickname? And what if one of his encounters went to the press?

Because he is a bit stupid and not very savvy?

 

[sleuth-d-]

Sentencing phase (aka mitigation/aggravation hearing)

If an accused is found guilty, is there a separate part of the trial for sentencing?

Yes. The main part of the trial is to decide whether the accused is guilty. The shorter, second phase, if the accused is convicted, is to decide the appropriate sentence.

Usually the sentence and conviction stages are part of the same continuous trial. Even then, the sentencing stage is noticeably different: it is relatively informal, with less rigid court processes, easier rules of evidence, and a generally more open-ended, discretionary enquiry by the court. Both the accused and the prosecution are entitled to make representations to the court on what sentence is fair and appropriate.

Can an accused be called back to the stand during the sentencing part of the trial?

The prosecution cannot compel the accused to testify at any stage of the trial. But the accused may elect to testify again, for example if she wants to express remorse, which is an important consideration in sentencing.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...ing-tried-for-murder-in-South-Africa-20140516


Mitigation is advanced by the defence to put forward mitigating or positive circumstances that would shorten the length or decrease the terms of a defendant's sentence.  

Aggravation is advanced by the state to put forward aggravating or negative circumstances that would extend the length or increase the terms of a defendant's sentence.

will there be cross examination during sentencing phase?

 

[Estelle]

That's really weird .. I can't seem to find the first one now, either .. I deffo saw it not that long ago, but now I am only finding the second one too. Even youtube clips like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1auR6p8dphA that actually states underneath it about 'previous incidents at that house', the actual video does not appear to be the one in which she says that .. she said it in the first press conference, but the video clip is the second press conference. Surely the Pistorius clan have not gone to such lengths as to have that first clip replaced with the second one, all over the internet? .. well, yes, I should imagine they probably have!

It's stupid though, because if you put Brigadier Denise Beukes' quote into google (i.e. "I can confirm there have previously been incidents at the home of Oscar Pistorius – allegations of a domestic nature") then it comes up with hundreds of returns, so they might think they can scrub that snippet of information by pulling/replacing all the videos of it, but they haven't been able to change or scrub that actual quote, it's still there for all to read, even if people can no longer see the video of her saying it. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=I+can+c...+Pistorius+–+allegations+of+a+domestic+nature

But this is the part which concerns me.

Has a deal also been made about this to cover it up? Brigadeer Denise also said this:

Police Were Called To Oscar Pistorius’ Home Hours Before Shooting Of Reeva Steenkamp

Was this misreporting or a cover up as the police did not respond to the call or something else?

Police Were Called To Oscar Pistorius’ Home Hours Before Shooting Of Reeva Steenkamp | http://1045theteam.com/police-oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp/?trackback=tsmclip

 

[Britlaws]

~rsbm~

I only saw that video fairly recently, that's one very big smelling rat if it's been wiped! I'll have another look later to see if I can find it, but I can confirm that I did see it (again .. I had already seen it a while back) no longer than a month or two ago.

A clip of the interview with the policewoman, or one of them was in the BBC Three doc recently. I can't recall which. Might still be on IPlayer.

ETA that doc was a rework of a previous one, as I had seen much of the content before. So one of the interviews might also have been on the original if it's still available. Might show a difference. I am sure the original was before the trial.

 

[Estelle]

Oscar Pistorius Statement Analysis by Kaaryn Gough

"After Reeva finished her yoga exercises she got into bed and we both fell asleep. I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime, including violent crime. I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night.

"During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom."

Change of language from “intruders” to “someone”. It is important to note when a person’s Personal Dictionary changes. People don’t change their language arbitrarily. People use very specific words and are consistent with their language as long as their relationship/experience with the item/person remains the same. A change in language is expected when the relationship/experience with the item/person changes. The change of language from “intruders” to “someone” at this point in the story, tells us that the subject viewed whoever was in the bathroom differently than from those ‘entering homes with a view to commit crime.’ “someone” is neutral and could be anyone, friend or foe, and the use of it at this point in the story tells us that the subject did not consider the “someone” in the bathroom to be an “intruder”.

Also note: “someone” is singular. The subject believed only one person was in the bathroom.

OP's bail statement had NO screaming by OP
Only other versions claimed screaming by OP to discredit witnesses and claim Reeva did not scream. They needed ''OP's screaming'' for his Defence

http://.blogspot.c...alysis-by.html

I find statement analysis very interesting

 

[jay-jay]

Oscar Pistorius Statement Analysis by Kaaryn Gough

"After Reeva finished her yoga exercises she got into bed and we both fell asleep. I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime, including violent crime. I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night.

"During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom."

Change of language from “intruders” to “someone”. It is important to note when a person’s Personal Dictionary changes. People don’t change their language arbitrarily. People use very specific words and are consistent with their language as long as their relationship/experience with the item/person remains the same. A change in language is expected when the relationship/experience with the item/person changes. The change of language from “intruders” to “someone” at this point in the story, tells us that the subject viewed whoever was in the bathroom differently than from those ‘entering homes with a view to commit crime.’ “someone” is neutral and could be anyone, friend or foe, and the use of it at this point in the story tells us that the subject did not consider the “someone” in the bathroom to be an “intruder”.

Also note: “someone” is singular. The subject believed only one person was in the bathroom.

http://.blogspot.c...alysis-by.html

I think by the trial, OP had changed this to "intruder or intruders". Is that correct?

Yes, and he actually said 'intruder ... or intruders' which sounded really contrived to me.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Reeva looks exactly like the ex Jenna, wonder if he had a candle for this Jenna, and wonder who ended the relationship -they were trophy girlfriends weren't they , he's a young 27 year old, boys toys, bachelor pad, I think he was at different stage in life relationship wise to Reeva, I think at 29 she was ready to settle down and looking for a 'keeper' to have a family, she knew EARLY on that Oscar wasn't fitting that mould and it was clearly frustrating for her to be let down and so disappointed in him when he turned on her, she knew he wasn't right for her, and think the whole thing was going sour - and after 12 weeks, Reeva knew probably in her heart he wasn't the one for her-

I agree with you, I think Oscar viewed girlfriends as accessories, and i'm wondering if SA men are rather chauvanistic?,- surf , gun ranges, fast cars...and leave the girlfriends at home, I may be wrong, and shouldn't generalise, but seems it's a country where men are men, and the woman are rather delicate and precious and have their place....... and arn't allowed out late at night or drive home late at night on their own.

i was interested to read in the bb book preview how reeva had previously split with op, but then got back with him [the relationship was only 4 months in total]. also how reeva had fears about his cheating. i think she wanted it to work, but would have been so undermined/annoyed by finding concrete evidence of cheating.

the split/get back together happened with taylor and the previous gf too. he does tempestuous.



interesting also, gina commented about how reeva looked in the mini security gate video. i have always thought that she looked stressed/uncomfortable/verging on tearful.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/sample/read/9781466846319

 

[jay-jay]

interesting also, gina commented about how reeva looked in the mini security gate video. i have always thought that she looked stressed/uncomfortable/verging on tearful.


http://www.barnesandnoble.com/sample/read/9781466846319

~rsbm~

Yes, I've heard many people say that she is smiling but I think she looks at her wits end, and does something with her hand across her face, in a kind of 'gahhh' sort of a way, and then gives a polite smile to the security guards .. but that's all that smile seems to say to me is that she was being courteous, it wasn't actually a happy smile.

 

[BritsKate]

Reeva looks exactly like the ex Jenna, wonder if he had a candle for this Jenna, and wonder who ended the relationship -they were trophy girlfriends weren't they , he's a young 27 year old, boys toys, bachelor pad, I think he was at different stage in life relationship wise to Reeva, I think at 29 she was ready to settle down and looking for a 'keeper' to have a family, she knew EARLY on that Oscar wasn't fitting that mould and it was clearly frustrating for her to be let down and so disappointed in him when he turned on her, she knew he wasn't right for her, and think the whole thing was going sour - and after 12 weeks, Reeva knew probably in her heart he wasn't the one for her-

I agree with you, I think Oscar viewed girlfriends as accessories, and i'm wondering if SA men are rather chauvanistic?,- surf , gun ranges, fast cars...and leave the girlfriends at home, I may be wrong, and shouldn't generalise, but seems it's a country where men are men, and the woman are rather delicate and precious and have their place....... and arn't allowed out late at night or drive home late at night on their own.

Nationality aside - it's actually quite common for abusive men to objectify women. Very often, their disrespect for women (and others they deem inferior to them) is palpable and partners are treated as possessions. It's not unusual for an abusive personality to also be racist, or homophobic, or abuse pets and or/children as well.

I'm quite certain for some South African men there are safety concerns and their main goal is to protect those they love - however, it's by no accident that the rate of domestic violence is staggeringly high in South Africa too. Even in the UK, intimate partner violence is on the rise - believed to be caused by funding cuts to shelters and advocacies on top of the economic downturn.

I'm convinced domestic violence and femicide wouldn't exist at the rate they do if chauvinism and misogyny weren't accepted, still, by a large part of our societies. A perfect example is Reeva portrayed simply as a bikini clad beauty pretty much the world over.

JMO and FWIW

 

[Cherwell]

I see him more as a person who views life and relationships like a series of races. You're only as good as your last race. Females (of which he definitely has a preferred 'type') are like a series of conquests to him. He doesn't do commitment and is easily distracted by the next 'challenge'. He loves the adoration, to be seen with a beautiful woman, because it makes a statement about him. But serious relationships make him feel trapped. He wants the best of all worlds: to always have someone but to be playing the field at the same time. It gives him a buzz. JMO

JE seems to be one of those silly young women that will be loyal at all costs, she probably believes she will survive them all and become the 'one', Mrs P. :gaah:

Sounds like he has her dangling on a string, ready to come running whenever he feels like bestowing attention on her. I'm afraid I wouldn't put up with someone who treated me like that, I have more self-respect.

 

[sleuth-d-]

That's really weird .. I can't seem to find the first one now, either .. I deffo saw it not that long ago, but now I am only finding the second one too. Even youtube clips like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1auR6p8dphA that actually states underneath it about 'previous incidents at that house', the actual video does not appear to be the one in which she says that .. she said it in the first press conference, but the video clip is the second press conference. Surely the Pistorius clan have not gone to such lengths as to have that first clip replaced with the second one, all over the internet? .. well, yes, I should imagine they probably have!

It's stupid though, because if you put Brigadier Denise Beukes' quote into google (i.e. "I can confirm there have previously been incidents at the home of Oscar Pistorius – allegations of a domestic nature") then it comes up with hundreds of returns, so they might think they can scrub that snippet of information by pulling/replacing all the videos of it, but they haven't been able to change or scrub that actual quote, it's still there for all to read, even if people can no longer see the video of her saying it. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=I+can+c...+Pistorius+–+allegations+of+a+domestic+nature

in the video you link to, she does say it... at 5:33

also here, a different camera angle... at 1:00
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-MURDER-model-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

i assume she is referring to the cassidy taylor-memmory incident.

 

[soozieqtips]

i was interested to read in the bb book preview how reeva had previously split with op, but then got back with him [the relationship was only 4 months in total]. also how reeva had fears about his cheating. i think she wanted it to work, but would have been so undermined/annoyed by finding concrete evidence of cheating.

the split/get back together happened with taylor and the previous gf too. he does tempestuous.
interesting also, gina commented about how reeva looked in the mini security gate video. i have always thought that she looked stressed/uncomfortable/verging on tearful.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/sample/read/9781466846319

BIB - they met on the 4th November, so the relationship was just over three months old, such a short time for things to have gone so badly so fast.