I've added a clearer Witness locations (graphic) to my resources. Shows Burger/Johnson location, relevant vacant plots and identifies Guard Track sites and activation times.
awaiting sentencing phase
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FL - Doug Benefield, 58, shot and killed by estranged wife, Manatee County, 27 Sept 2020
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After looking at the Saps evidence photographs.........................
Why and I mean a BIG HUGE MASSIVE WHY.................did Nel no ask OP what caused the damage to the metal plate on the side of the bath???
I mean...c'mon have you seen it !!!!
And witnesses heard 2 sets of bangs/noises etc and tiles were smashed from the side of the door frame but he never asked or raised the issue?
Couple that with the bedroom door being smashed too............is Masipa and her assessors from this planet?
Am I missing something here................Reevas mum and dad must be livid after this outcome when all this evidence was overlooked fgs.
Unbelievable it really is.
Why and I mean a BIG HUGE MASSIVE WHY.................did Nel no ask OP what caused the damage to the metal plate on the side of the bath???
I mean...c'mon have you seen it !!!!
And witnesses heard 2 sets of bangs/noises etc and tiles were smashed from the side of the door frame but he never asked or raised the issue?
Couple that with the bedroom door being smashed too............is Masipa and her assessors from this planet?
Am I missing something here................Reevas mum and dad must be livid after this outcome when all this evidence was overlooked fgs.
Unbelievable it really is.
~rsbm~
Thank you for this, Lux .. I've no idea how I missed this case in the news when it happened (although I'm in the UK, we usually do get to hear of many of these types of cases) .. but it really does highlight exactly how manipulative some of these killers can be, and why should OP be any different, all apart from that in some people's eyes he can do no wrong? People ARE capable of being like this, and OP is no different .. and in fact, some of the similarities in that vid were strikingly similar, especially in the way that the police said in the Susan Smith story, she kept tailoring her testimony to fit .. they said that everytime they said to her 'x, y, z' could not have happened, she would then change her story to fit .. and that it was like a game of chess. It's exactly the same thing with Pistorius, isn't it?
Amazing in that Susan Smith case that she still didn't really ever admit the truth as to why she killed her children, and it's so obvious to me why she did it (based on her comment to her friend about a week earlier 'I wonder what life would be like if I didn't have children') .. she was pissed that the relationship with Tom hadn't worked out, she (in her mind) blamed it on the fact she had children and that they were getting in the way and that Tom would get back with her if she didn't have the children/felt sorry for her that she'd been through such a hellish experience. Vile, selfish excuses for human beings these types are .. as you have previously said .. they are PUTRID.
JudgeJudi
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David Dadic @DavidDadic 2h 2 hours ago
Jub Jub's appeal is being decided today. He was previously found guilty of eventualis for each child killed. Will OP judgment change that
David Dadic @DavidDadic 2h 2 hours ago
Have a very strong feeling Jub Jub's conviction will be reduced to culpable homicide. Which in my opinion would be correct.
Karyn Maughan @karynmaughan 32m 32 minutes ago
BREAKING Judge reverses murder and attempted murder convictions of Jub Jub and co-accused, replaces with culpable homicide @eNCAnews
David Dadic @DavidDadic 19m 19 minutes ago
Jub Jub guilty of Culp, as I thought,. Now for sentence, he was very reckless imo - which i believe is also the case with OP.
David Dadic @DavidDadic 23m 23 minutes ago
Wow Jub Jub gets 8 years. Next week even more interesting now.
David Dadic @DavidDadic 21m 21 minutes ago
I wont tell you what I predicted OP's sentence to be...
Jub Jub's appeal is being decided today. He was previously found guilty of eventualis for each child killed. Will OP judgment change that
David Dadic @DavidDadic 2h 2 hours ago
Have a very strong feeling Jub Jub's conviction will be reduced to culpable homicide. Which in my opinion would be correct.
Karyn Maughan @karynmaughan 32m 32 minutes ago
BREAKING Judge reverses murder and attempted murder convictions of Jub Jub and co-accused, replaces with culpable homicide @eNCAnews
David Dadic @DavidDadic 19m 19 minutes ago
Jub Jub guilty of Culp, as I thought,. Now for sentence, he was very reckless imo - which i believe is also the case with OP.
David Dadic @DavidDadic 23m 23 minutes ago
Wow Jub Jub gets 8 years. Next week even more interesting now.
David Dadic @DavidDadic 21m 21 minutes ago
I wont tell you what I predicted OP's sentence to be...
soozieqtips
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And he wasn't even asked if he went through the bag. He just added that himself for no reason, which possibly means he did go through her bag.
D
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SAPS fotos:
274: Why so many hair strands?
247: Why 9mm Luger bullet on toy car?
175, A2: Why catridge casing on this place?
Hair strands: OP carried Reeva on one side (I remember: his left arm?); then why hair strand on right side of the stairs (for viewers left side)?
274: Why so many hair strands?
247: Why 9mm Luger bullet on toy car?
175, A2: Why catridge casing on this place?
Hair strands: OP carried Reeva on one side (I remember: his left arm?); then why hair strand on right side of the stairs (for viewers left side)?
I'm gradually moving my resources over to OneDrive as it has better compatibility with Office, which I'm using to create the files. I'll be posting new links as things move. Google versions will no longer be maintained and I'll remove the links as I go along.
Available via OneDrive so far:
Phone usage charts
Timeline (13 Feb)
Witness locations (aerial)
Witness locations (graphic)
Witness testimony analysis
Outstanding:
Theory (pending legal advice)
Available via OneDrive so far:
Phone usage charts
Timeline (13 Feb)
Witness locations (aerial)
Witness locations (graphic)
Witness testimony analysis
Outstanding:
Theory (pending legal advice)
This is really interesting. Thanks for posting these.
So if driving recklessly results in a sentence of 8 years for CH, surely firing 4 bullets into a small space, directly towards a human being, HAS to be considered more reckless and result in a stiffer sentence.
I don't post often but have followed this trial closely, and this forum. I think personally that it is likely that they did have the argument and the red mist came down etc. However, I can actually see why the judge has come to the decision she did (or the court did).
Firstly though, I think there have been a couple of cases that might have skewed people's interpretation of the law. In the Rudi Visage case, he wasn't prosecuted simply because he would have had to have been found guilty of eventualis. He fired, with intent, directly at the car driving away to stop the so called burglar, and he admitted that. It was felt that the loss of his daughter was suffering enough but he had the requisite intent for eventualis, with its mandatory sentencing. The 'Jub Jub case was another case that influenced people re OP's trial. This case was wrongly decided, and that has now been put right. Yes he was reckless but he did not have the requisite intent for eventualis. He can still get a stiff sentence for CH comensurate with the recklessness he demonstrated. Plenty of people kill people driving their cars, sometimes recklessly, but few if any get in their cars to intentionally harm others, so cannot be convicted of murder.
Therefore, it is clear from these cases, that what distinguishes eventualis from CH is intent and this is a subjective test, not what any of us might think, the intent of the defendent. Masipa wasn't satisfied that it had been proven BRD that OP had the requisite intent towards anyone, not necessarily of killing but there has to be some intent of causing harm, and therefore eventualis was not available to her. Now, many may not agree of course but that is the court's decision - it was just badly worded in the judgement and didn't include the so called intruder properly. I am not sure an appeal would suceed, as the appeal court wouldn't be able to re examine facts, just the application of the law - i.e. it wouldn't be able to look at the intent of OP again and disagree with the lower court finding on that. It would just look at the test that the court applied, and I am not sure it was an incorrect one, it was just that she didn't clarify it properly and made things probably worse the second day.
Firstly though, I think there have been a couple of cases that might have skewed people's interpretation of the law. In the Rudi Visage case, he wasn't prosecuted simply because he would have had to have been found guilty of eventualis. He fired, with intent, directly at the car driving away to stop the so called burglar, and he admitted that. It was felt that the loss of his daughter was suffering enough but he had the requisite intent for eventualis, with its mandatory sentencing. The 'Jub Jub case was another case that influenced people re OP's trial. This case was wrongly decided, and that has now been put right. Yes he was reckless but he did not have the requisite intent for eventualis. He can still get a stiff sentence for CH comensurate with the recklessness he demonstrated. Plenty of people kill people driving their cars, sometimes recklessly, but few if any get in their cars to intentionally harm others, so cannot be convicted of murder.
Therefore, it is clear from these cases, that what distinguishes eventualis from CH is intent and this is a subjective test, not what any of us might think, the intent of the defendent. Masipa wasn't satisfied that it had been proven BRD that OP had the requisite intent towards anyone, not necessarily of killing but there has to be some intent of causing harm, and therefore eventualis was not available to her. Now, many may not agree of course but that is the court's decision - it was just badly worded in the judgement and didn't include the so called intruder properly. I am not sure an appeal would suceed, as the appeal court wouldn't be able to re examine facts, just the application of the law - i.e. it wouldn't be able to look at the intent of OP again and disagree with the lower court finding on that. It would just look at the test that the court applied, and I am not sure it was an incorrect one, it was just that she didn't clarify it properly and made things probably worse the second day.
On the issue of her taking his behavoir after the killing into account, had the prosecution been able to produce evidence of the sneaking away of the phone and bag, any arrangement made to wipe the phone or indeed any other little plots to cover up evidence directly after the shooting, then the addition of the remorseful crying and wailing, dedication to god (gah) etc over a dead Reeva might have cemented a picture of a devious, cunning individual intent and willing to go to any lengths to avoid justice, so the inclusion of this testimony was relevant I think.
Despite the theorising, I do think he should have been convicted of eventualis and the thought of a killer getting away with it makes me very uneasy.
Despite the theorising, I do think he should have been convicted of eventualis and the thought of a killer getting away with it makes me very uneasy.
D
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To Britlaws:
Otherwise SA (and other countries?) has to create a new law. Kind of: DV= (don't know to name it) with harsh sentence, DV with following death= murder (always) with harsh sentence. Too late for OP ... I know.
Otherwise SA (and other countries?) has to create a new law. Kind of: DV= (don't know to name it) with harsh sentence, DV with following death= murder (always) with harsh sentence. Too late for OP ... I know.
BritsKate
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The issue with that is every country (heck, a lot of cities/counties in states/nations) have differing legal definitions for what constitutes domestic violence. In most of the world, emotional abuse isn't covered with current domestic violence statutes - yet it has often been a precursor to fatal domestic violence all the less. In many places on the globe, charges against a perpetrator are solely reliant on an abuse victim pursuing charges. The least able person psychologically capable of such a decision, may I add. And the often, seemingly inevitable, upsurge in abuse when a victim leaves and does pursue charges because restraining orders very often don't work; family laws aren't written with domestic violence in mind (like mandatory mediation) and cuts to frontline services geared specifically for domestic violence are having their funding cut.
For me the laws are a side issue - I think we need to start by educating society what intimate partner looks like - that it isn't just a cookie cutter image of a woman being beaten by a man - and as Masipa so eloquently illustrated - we desperately need all legal advocates to undergo rigorous training to be able to see through the ups and downs of a fickle relationship to be able to identify other forms of non-physical (until it is) abuse.
JMO and FWIW
I haven't followed the Jub Jub case .. is this a first offence?
I've been likening the seriousness of what OP did (if I take it in terms of the CH verdict) to what Mick Philpott did over here in the UK .. he was convicted of manslaughter for killing six of his children in a house fire, and is currently serving a LIFE SENTENCE (with a minimum of 15 years to be served) .. then again, he did have 'previous' (served a 7 year custodial sentence for attempted murder/GBH/ABH ). Or is what OP did not as serious because he 'only' killed the one person? IMO, it doesn't matter that he killed 'just' the one person, the negligence (to me) is on a par with what Philpott did (again, if you take the CH as being correct .. which I don't, but that is what the judge has decided).
Yes, and it was another occasion to try and instill in people's minds how 'honest' he is .. just like he kept on about in that email he sent to Sam. People like him, who continually go on about how honest they are, are the very ones to be wary of!
soozieqtips
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Yes. His behaviour afterwards, getting his phone squirrelled away etc, was a calculated act, and nothing to do with remorse, but with covering things up. I highly doubt his brother took it upon himself to a) select the correct phone, and b) delete anything incriminating. OP was not in the throes of remorse when he decided to alter things. He was thinking quite clearly at that point!
As far as i can gather the legal minds who believe the verdict is erroneous and therefore may be appealed do so due to one of two (or both) issues.
Re BIB some pundits, Judge Greenland amongst them seemed to find it frankly implausible that a trained fire arm user, who has been found criminally responsible, could not foresee that four shots, fired from a weapon whose main function is killing, into a tiny room wouldn't cause death. Especially when OP's various attempts at claiming various impairments failed and he showed on cross examination that he was cognitively lucid whilst constructing his "version" (ricocheting bullets etc).
The second issue seems to be around the "couldn't possibly be guilty of murder because he thought Reeva was in the bed" palaver which seemed frankly clunky especially when she tried to remedy it the next day.
I know people enjoy their 15 minutes of fame or whatever but it's unusual and significant for professional people to publicly criticise their peers and Masipa has copped a fair bit of criticism from many of her colleagues, on this basis questions do seem to have been raised about her application of the law.
I do think sentencing will be interesting. However, given that she really does seem to have tried hard to ignore all evidence that disputes his version, including his own testimony, I won't be surprised if he gets a suspended sentence. I keep coming back to this but the ammunition charge is so bizarre that I really think she doesn't want him to be punished at all...
PrimeSuspect
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Masipa and her assessors had a month to write up her judgment? I would be sacked if I couldn't manage to that in my job, the law is written out, she doesn't make it up from her head. It's all there, in black and white. There are other cases that set precedent, which she can refer to.
Imo, Masipa and her assessors were trying to pull a fast one.
Masipa described OP as a firearms expert when it came to the firing of the gun in Tasha's which he gave a guilty plea to her on a silver platter,
BUT then when it came to shooting 4 bullets into a 2x2 toilet cubicle suddenly he's a novice, he has absolutely no idea he would kill someone??!!! Mr Zombie Stopper himself!!
JMO
Estelle
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I live in Sydney, Australia, and for income as I am retired, I share my house with housemates which gives me an income to travel around the world every year. South Africa and Australia have a similar climate at the same time of year. I have a dryer but electricity is expensive so I give each person a clothes rack to use in summer not only to save on bills but also because none of us like our clothes to be dried in the dryer as it sometimes ruins them. Sometimes, I will use the dryer for a short period if I need something urgently as it is computerised too so I take things out which have dried but my jeans may not have dried sufficiently so, as it is hot, I leave the jeans somewhere to dry out in those places which did not dry in the dryer. I then hang the jeans somewhere over a chair or even a window sill and in no time, they are dry. Jeans are one of the heaviest things in the dryer so they take much longer to dry. I then just go back and collect them especially in February when it is hot. As most of RS and OP's activity was downstairs, I would have thought that there was a toilet downstairs which they would have used in the meantime. So IMO RS would have just collected them when she was leaving as many of us could not be bothered going upstairs to move them earlier. Houses do not have rules that you cannot hang things hanging over a window sill or balcony. It's not that she would have done this all the time and probably only meant to do it for a few hours when they would have been dry but she got distracted downstairs and forgot about them. At this stage RS could have had her bag downstairs. I have never touched up my makeup when I am with a guy I know fairly well. At best, I might put lipstick on again after dinner. It might not sound classy but it is practical hanging jeans over a window sill for a couple of hours to completely dry in summer in hot countries. I would do it but I do not have such a window sill. I just hang them over a chair when I do not have an outside line to hang them on.
Estelle
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bbm, i am guessing that you haven't been following the case as closely as some on here.
That window sill is not on the front of the house. My house is just as luxurious as his but I would not hang them at the front. There are plenty of other places one can hang them in hot weather. What was the temperature on February 13?
Estelle
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This reminds me that we have already had one member write a list of people who could speak on OP's behalf before sentencing so whom do you think will speak on RS behalf?
Gina Myers
Kim Myers
Cecil Myers
Darren Fresco
Reeva's cousin
Warren Lahoud
Sam Gruyvenstein?
I think it would be good for Reeva's parents to talk too but they claim they are not going to be there.
Who else?
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