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Hey guys, check it out:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/09/27/judge-and-juror-vs-a-miscarriage-of-justice/

I had an opportunity to speak with Judge Chris Greenland via Skype last night and there is a link to the audio interview on my blog. He was extremely gracious and spoke with me for an hour and a half. It's a long audio (sorry), so grab a cup of coffee and kick back to listen.

Unfortunately Skype is not always totally reliable, so there are some areas where the Judge is a bit difficult to hear, and the first few minutes were a little awkward, but once we got past that we were able to dig in to some good conversation. I tried to get in as many questions as possible that related to topics we've been discussing here, and he was very honest in his answers. I hope you enjoy it.

P.S. I did not ask him about the belt on the jeans :giggle:

Lisa, this world scoop with Judge Greenland is nothing short of amazing. I'm not finished listening to it yet but already so many questions we've been debating for so long have been answered and explained as only Judge Greenland can. You're a star in every sense of the word and I'm sure I speak on behalf of 99.9% of us here in thanking you for this.


:yourock: :tyou: :takeabow: :grouphug: :blowkiss:
 
Sorry, perhaps it's not the right time to post this, but I don't know how to preserve it for a later point in time.
I'm searching on "Labuschagne or not Labuschagne" and found this pic we all know. Is there a cellphone in his left pocket??? Rather not a box with cigarettes I think ...


OscarAfterMurder.jpg
 
Sorry, perhaps it's not the right time to post this, but I don't know how to preserve it for a later point in time.
I'm searching on "Labuschagne or not Labuschagne" and found this pic we all know. Is there a cellphone in his left pocket??? Rather not a box with cigarettes I think ...


View attachment 60074

BIB Good spot, there's certainly something in his pocket. Perhaps it's his wallet or he was loaned a phone by his brother/sister because we can see from the phone records that the 0020 phone leaves his house temporarily around 7am when it goes into the Shere AH tower reception area (Hazeldean Square?) and again before 8am, when it leaves permanently. OP is definitely in the garage during the first period that the phone leaves the house. He is still in the garage at 07:39-07:40 when he is photographed there in his prostheses. Do we know precisely what time he was taken from his house to the police station?

ETA this from translation of report in Rapport (I have found this report to be inaccurate in some other respects so will wait until it has been corroborated).

8:35 Thursday a hearse with the remains Pistorius's girlfriend left the estate.
9:27 Thursday Police say they have a 26-year-old man arrested for the murder of a woman in Silver Woods Estate. Police said shortly after his Oscar Pistorius identified.
10:27 Thursday A police convoy taking Pistorius from his home to the Boschkop police station, around 10 km away.

 
Hey guys, check it out:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/09/27/judge-and-juror-vs-a-miscarriage-of-justice/

I had an opportunity to speak with Judge Chris Greenland via Skype last night and there is a link to the audio interview on my blog. He was extremely gracious and spoke with me for an hour and a half. It's a long audio (sorry), so grab a cup of coffee and kick back to listen.

Unfortunately Skype is not always totally reliable, so there are some areas where the Judge is a bit difficult to hear, and the first few minutes were a little awkward, but once we got past that we were able to dig in to some good conversation. I tried to get in as many questions as possible that related to topics we've been discussing here, and he was very honest in his answers. I hope you enjoy it.

P.S. I did not ask him about the belt on the jeans :giggle:

Wow, Lisa, wow!

It's a miserable looking morning in London and I have some free time...I've got croissants in the oven and coffee brewing, so I'll kick back and listen to this.

And I should also say thanks for your fantastic website. I've used it lots of times over the last few months to find stuff and go over evidence. It's been a massive help.
 
I have just finished listening to Lisa's chat with Judge Greenland. It is well worth a listen.

I think a lot more people would have been happier with the verdict if he had been the judge in this trial. After listening to this I feel more hope that things could still turn out differently. He seems to think that if the case went to appeal that a dolus eventualis verdict would be extremely likely.

One thing I didn't quite understand though was whether Oscar's sentence would be increased if a murder verdict was rendered on appeal. Judge Greenland seemed to suggest that it wouldn't, unless the defence had also appealed on sentence.

I really enjoyed listening to this discussion. Thanks again Lisa. It seems like this trial could run on for some time.
 
Because I don't remember his exact name, I have done a search, but unsuccessful. I'm going to google more ..... wait please ............. there it is........ Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne PhD - that person! IMO he was at the crime scene to support OP.

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/Witnesses

Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne PhD, who heads the Police’s Investigative Psychology Section, is named. So too is expert forensic specialist Lt Col Ian van der Nest – both men have testified in numerous high profile cases in the past. Labuschagne has testified in over seventy court cases during his career and has assisted in the investigation of over 110 serial murderers and over 200 serial rapists. Van der Nest provided crucial evidence in Eugene Terre’Blanche’s murder trial.

I'm now searching an article which says, GL had been at the crime scene .......

Great sleuthing FG! Is there anyone in SA that is not related to OP especially in occupations that would be enormously useful to him? Grrrr.
 
I have just finished listening to Lisa's chat with Judge Greenland. It is well worth a listen.

I think a lot more people would have been happier with the verdict if he had been the judge in this trial. After listening to this I feel more hope that things could still turn out differently. He seems to think that if the case went to appeal that a dolus eventualis verdict would be extremely likely.

One thing I didn't quite understand though was whether Oscar's sentence would be increased if a murder verdict was rendered on appeal. Judge Greenland seemed to suggest that it wouldn't, unless the defence had also appealed on sentence.

I really enjoyed listening to this discussion. Thanks again Lisa. It seems like this trial could run on for some time.

I've just finished listening to the first part. Judge G is brilliant at cutting through all the crap, all the stuff that has endlessly fascinated us but which is really mostly window dressing (the belted or non-belted jeans being a perfect example!), and saying it mainly comes down to what was OP thinking when he pointed his 9mm at the door and fired.

His comments on OP's reaction after the crime and how Masipa really should not have taken this into account were interesting in that he queried whether Masipa had had enough experience to understand that a guilty person can be remorseful immediately after committing a crime. My question is how much experience does one really need to have to work that one out? Twenty years as an advocate and judge or just a healthy dose of scepticism???

His comments on what he felt was mishandling of court proceedings were interesting too - he felt some (state) witnesses had been badgered and that Masipa should have intervened. Looking back on the trial, Masipa's lack of engagement now seems quite telling. At the time I thought this was just how judges behave in SA, whereas I think in the UK there is much more of a sense that the judge is in charge. In this case, it often felt to me that Nel and Roux were running the show entirely. Masipa just didn't seem to have much of a presence or influence other than deciding on when they were to have the next tea break.
 
Thanks a lot Lisa. Half way through listening, and it's very interesting to hear the judge going over what so many of us have already discussed, ie, the fact that Masipa erroneously used OP's post-killing behaviour (crying, praying, blah blah blah) to decide that his version was true. Going to listen to the rest of it now. Thanks again. Great work!
 
I have just finished listening to Lisa's chat with Judge Greenland. It is well worth a listen.

I think a lot more people would have been happier with the verdict if he had been the judge in this trial. After listening to this I feel more hope that things could still turn out differently. He seems to think that if the case went to appeal that a dolus eventualis verdict would be extremely likely.

One thing I didn't quite understand though was whether Oscar's sentence would be increased if a murder verdict was rendered on appeal. Judge Greenland seemed to suggest that it wouldn't, unless the defence had also appealed on sentence.

I really enjoyed listening to this discussion. Thanks again Lisa. It seems like this trial could run on for some time.

The sentence would be changed accordingly, as set out in s322(1)(b) of the Criminal Procedure Act: "In the case of an appeal against a conviction or of any question of law reserved, the court of appeal may give such judgment as ought to have been given at the trial or impose such punishment as ought to have been imposed at the trial"

The prosecution also has the right to appeal the sentence independently under s316B.
 
RSBM

Agree with above- it would have been relatively easy for him to come up with his initial 2 line intruder story to Dr. Stipp, Standers, police who came on site that morning.

We already know from both ST and his ex-housemate that, from their experience sleeping at his, that he was scaring them with his readiness to get out his gun in the middle of the night due to his perception there was an intruder. Third was the tweeted washing-machine noise incident ( But he never pulled the trigger, of course. )

If your "flat-mate" confronts you with a loaded pistol in the early hours of the morning it's stretching credibility that you wouldn't discuss it with them the next morning in the cold light of day.
So if we agree that is plausible, what might you say to OP ?
"FFS I thought you were going to kill me last night ....You want to be careful ....you could end up killing someone Oscar" or something similar.

Logically it follows, OP has discussed this intruder scenario with others before.
If that is plausible - then it's not going to take long to come up with the intruder scenario is it?

I would go further and say the Op macho cronies- like the ones we see in the Mozambique bar photos a few weeks after killing Reeva- or the ones shooting watermelons - have all had a good joke with OP about this kind of thing, being trigger happy, being reckless, for a long, long time prior to that February when it became deadly serious.

Apropos OP's friends and associates. Lisa's blog (Juror13) has some interesting posts by people who seem to know the circles he moves in. This cannot be proved, of course, but worthy of a few minutes of your time to read what they had to say.

These are the relevant dates and posting times:

Miktal - 8/26/14 @ 2:30pm
Miktal - 8/27/14 @ 7:54am
Jakes - 8/29/14 @ 2:59pm

Thank you Lisa for your help.
 
If “serial” means more than one, I believe there’s an excellent chance that OP will become a “serial” killer.

He’s already a social pariah who’s lost everything. He’s known to hang out with unsavory, very dangerous associates. He’s a tightly coiled mass of angst, anger, alcohol, “anxiety”, entitlement, narcissism and now, to make the mix even more volatile - bitterness at being branded an outcast, when he once ruled the world as a demi-god and the masses paid homage at his blades.

What’s to stop him from killing again?

Certainly not SA law, certainly not SA courts; with the entire arsenal of Pistorius family money and power behind him - already walking free from murdering one woman - why would he fear any real consequences or repercussions if he killed again?

This same scenario has been the story of his life - Oscar does exactly what Oscar wants (including murder). Familial excuses, friends and slick PR cover his every sin and he never, ever pays the price.

The Pistorius family created this monster, now the SA courts perpetuate his psychopathy ... and endanger everyone, especially women.

I agree, someone else is going to be seriously hurt or killed by this man. SMH

How do we know he doesn't have access to another safe or storage facility with more guns and ammo? Does anybody care? :aktion1:
 
I was considering that the jeans were something like this. I do agree with FromGermany about the grout line in the tile. That looks right. I can't believe photographing jeans went on my to do list for today LOL. I really don't have a strong opinion about the jeans. You could very well be right.

That's how I'm seeing them too homegirl, with the thin belt. TY
 
If OP did that as an alibi that means he had already decided to shot and kill Reeva at that moment… because if he hadn't and security/police arrived the burglar/intruder story would not fly because Reeva would be alive to say otherwise.

IMO, the screams/shouts for Help after the shooting were indeed for the purpose of alibi… who in his own home, in an estate with several security personnel on duty 24/7, with readily available and working telephones, with an alarm system and panic button decides to go out onto a backyard balcony at 3AM to shout aimlessly Help-Help-Help ???… makes no sense except for said alibi… and it worked beautifully with Masipa.

It's quite simple… If you plan to murder someone, simply shout for help before and after you kill someone… it might serve you well if you get arrested !!

Quoted for truth!
 
....., but I don't know how to preserve it for a later point in time. .................


View attachment 60074

I'm soo stupid! :blushing: I know how to preserve the picture, but I don't know to preserve the link to the newspaper article. And then .....
I have forgotten to link (now it's gone)!!! OMG
 
Here is Labuschagne leaving with Arnold and Oscar after his arrest. He was often seen sitting behind Nel during the trial, right?

http://www.travelsworlds.com/oscar-...d-after-the-killing-of-his-girlfriend-qhckabn



View attachment 60079

Thank you!!! Then I may stop my hours long searching? I haven't found the newspaper article yet and got despair in the meantime.
Yes, early on Labuschagne was present at court (bail hearing etc.).

What I don't understand at all: Of all people, Labuschagne was later an important observer for the prosecution??? IMO this doesn't fit together at all. Ridiculous. What a game is played there, I want to know.

Pistorius, 27, will be watched closely throughout his testimony by Col Gerard Labuschagne, the head of the South African Police Service’s investigative psychology section, who will look for weaknesses and mannerisms that could be exploited to the prosecution’s advantage in cross-examination.

By Aislinn Laing, Johannesburg

6:59PM BST 05 Apr 2014

Telegraph (link doesn't work)
 
Thank you!!! Then I may stop my hours long searching? I haven't found the newspaper article yet and got despair in the meantime.
Yes, early on Labuschagne was present at court (bail hearing etc.).

What I don't understand at all: Of all people, Labuschagne was later an important observer for the prosecution??? IMO this doesn't fit together at all. Ridiculous. What a game is played there, I want to know.

Pistorius, 27, will be watched closely throughout his testimony by Col Gerard Labuschagne, the head of the South African Police Service’s investigative psychology section, who will look for weaknesses and mannerisms that could be exploited to the prosecution’s advantage in cross-examination.

By Aislinn Laing, Johannesburg

6:59PM BST 05 Apr 2014

Telegraph (link doesn't work)

What a conflict of interest! Many people used to say that the Pistorius family had good connections with the police service and he would get off. Now I know what they meant.
 
I've just finished listening to the first part. Judge G is brilliant at cutting through all the crap, all the stuff that has endlessly fascinated us but which is really mostly window dressing (the belted or non-belted jeans being a perfect example!), and saying it mainly comes down to what was OP thinking when he pointed his 9mm at the door and fired.

His comments on OP's reaction after the crime and how Masipa really should not have taken this into account were interesting in that he queried whether Masipa had had enough experience to understand that a guilty person can be remorseful immediately after committing a crime. My question is how much experience does one really need to have to work that one out? Twenty years as an advocate and judge or just a healthy dose of scepticism???

His comments on what he felt was mishandling of court proceedings were interesting too - he felt some (state) witnesses had been badgered and that Masipa should have intervened. Looking back on the trial, Masipa's lack of engagement now seems quite telling. At the time I thought this was just how judges behave in SA, whereas I think in the UK there is much more of a sense that the judge is in charge. In this case, it often felt to me that Nel and Roux were running the show entirely. Masipa just didn't seem to have much of a presence or influence other than deciding on when they were to have the next tea break.

BBM: No kidding! Its really incredible to me that Masipa basically publicly admitted to this. To me, that is quintessential naiveté. Seriously.
 
“And her (Masipa's) job, in the eyes of many white people, at any rate, was to punish a white man for causing grief to his own kind. Isn’t it ironic, then, that what Masipa did instead was feel deep sympathy for Pistorius? While many white people looked at him and saw a monster, Masipa saw a legless man hobble fearfully through his house. So much sympathy did she feel that she bent the law as far as she might dare to protect him,” he said."

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/968...s-white-people-hungry-for-blood-of-pistorius/
 
Ok.

I don't believe it is reasonable to believe in this sequence of events.

1. Pistorius grabbed his gun under the bed, yet could not confirm Reeva was on the bed, when he would be right next to her
2. I do not believe any reasonable person would hear a sound in the bathroom and not consider it is the person sleeping over
3. I do not believe Reeva would be at the door of the toilet rather then sitting on the toilet, unless she was in fact talking/arguing with Pistorius, because usually you go to the toilet to use the toilet, not the door, on the other side.
4. I do not believe Pistorius could aim so well, in such a sequence, first knowingly being able to hit Reeva at the position of the door, which requires knowing she was at the door,
instead of the toilet, then adjusting his aim to shoot at her fallen body which then fell on the toilet, instead of simply backwards from the door.



Given Pistorius' well known history of verbal abuse, both publicly in front of his girlfriend, and privately, it is clear and fact that Pistorius is mentally unbalanced with regards to relationships with women.

In that regard, nothing is outside the realm of reasonable possibility in his abuse of women.

just more info to back you up.


In September 2009, Ms Taylor-Memmory attended a party at Pistorius's house, invited as a friend of his then-girlfriend whom he was with before he met Reeva Steenkamp.
After Pistorius and his partner got into a fight, all her friends were asked to leave by the Paralympian 'using vulgar language', the blogger told Eyewitness News.

'As I approached his large outside doors, Oscar was furiously trying to close them. He started to punch the door and then is when one of the top panels fell and hit my left leg,' she said.

'After this happened I went to tell Oscar that he had hurt me to which he replied “well, go call your *advertiser censored***** lawyer”.'

Ms Taylor-Memmory described Pistorious's behaviour as aggressive and unreasonable, and said that it took her by surprise.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-slammed-broke-door-party.html#ixzz3EVmSHm2U

-------

What we can establish from that outburst, OP has a 'thing' against doors and his anger level goes from 0 to 100 in a blink of an eye. OP mockingly told Ms T-M to call her ******* lawyer, this is part of his abusive behaviour, not hard to believe he was mocking Reeva about her screams for help.

So we can draw up a scenario of an argument brewing which either is close to or exactly what happened with Reeva on 13/14.

We know fact 1, Reeva had lunch with ex bf of 5 yrs days before she died, fact 2, OP was upset after his visit to his financial advisers on 13 Feb, fact 3, Reeva preferred that OP went to his family for consoling, fact 4, Reeva had a speech to give on violence against women on VDay, fact 5, OP had no Valentine's present for Reeva.

Also, regarding their messages to each other and that 90 % were of a loving or friendly nature is immaterial imo, it's the 10 % of messages which showed the true nature of the deteriorating relationship. Reeva was the peace keeper, the soothing voice to him when he was down.
Reeva would have grown tired of his bs imo, especially that she isn't appreciated and he didn't think to buy her a present. His ex gf Sam Taylor says he was a cheapskate but if Reeva was to be his wife as he did introduce her as his fiancée to his neighbour, a Valentine's gift would have been a given, imo.

-------

Excerpt from an article on OP - notice he did make a big deal of VD for his ex gf Vicky.

I have seen both the Jekyll and Hyde sides of his personality. After my visit to his home, he got me a reservation at a nearby hotel called the Farm Inn and drove me there.

Nothing was too much trouble. The owner, a friend of Pistorius, was a lady called Rose Michaletos. I spent a restful evening there, and the next day Pistorius picked me up and drove me at breakneck pace to Johannesburg airport – tyres screeching as he rounded corners like a man possessed.

‘Thank you so much for coming, brother,’ he said, and slapped me on the back.
But by the following May, Pistorius was a different, much more troubled man.
The hotel owner Rose admitted she was worried about him.
‘He has a string of blondes,’ she said, adding that he had just thrown a big birthday party for people he had only just met. His once tidy living room had been strewn with empty bottles.

‘It’s an odd family,’ added Rose. ‘The brother Carl is very up and down, and the sister Amy likes to stay out of Oscar’s professional life.’

What struck her had also struck me: where was the support structure of dieticians and physiotherapists usually at the heart of a modern athlete’s life?

His regular ‘diet’ was worrying. At around 7am, he would make a cup of coffee using his stylish machine at home – hardly the breakfast of champions. There was no milk in the house. He ate no food; just swigged from a 500ml energy ‘shake’ in a plastic bottle as he drove to the track.

He did not return to the house until 11.30am, meaning he had not eaten all morning. He was back training at 2.30pm, leaving little time for digestion. It was a chaotic life. Why did one of the world’s richest athletes – born into a wealthy mining family – not pay for a housekeeper to cook his meals?

All this came just three months before the London Olympics – the high point of his career – and he was popping caffeine tablets for energy, which he kept in the drinks holder of his car.
By now, he was blaming every daily tribulation on others – he had too many media commitments, he complained, too many interruptions to his schedule.

He still peppered his conversation with ‘pleases’ and ‘thank yous’, but in between the pleasantries, the language suggested someone who was depressed. He was often monosyllabic and often used expletives.

Work-out sessions at Jannie’s Gym, near his home, were irregular. He was known to rant and rave as he struggled to complete the simplest of routines. His swearing would astonish the mothers and children also using the gym.
Occasionally, he would stalk out in a fury, returning only when his anger had expired.

He couldn’t sleep – perhaps unsurprisingly given his caffeine pills and coffee diet. Often he would rise in the middle of the night and go with his gun and a couple of boxes of ammunition to the shooting range.
Asked how often, he replied: ‘Just sometimes when I can’t sleep.’
The use of firearms is certainly an unusual remedy for insomnia, and perhaps not the healthiest.

In a poignant echo of yesterday’s drama, Pistorius crept into Vicky’s house on Valentine’s Day 2006. ‘While everyone was sleeping, I had been to her house to hang 200 coloured balloons,’ he recalled. ‘I blew every one of them up individually.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pad-explosive-rages-procession-blondes-.html
 
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