awaiting sentencing phase

[Deleted member 102539]

where did you get this information from ? - I knew about the Aunt, but no idea there was another relative who held a position in the police ? have you got any links to this ?

Because I don't remember his exact name, I have done a search, but unsuccessful. I'm going to google more ..... wait please ............. there it is........ Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne PhD - that person! IMO he was at the crime scene to support OP.

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/Witnesses

Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne PhD, who heads the Police’s Investigative Psychology Section, is named. So too is expert forensic specialist Lt Col Ian van der Nest – both men have testified in numerous high profile cases in the past. Labuschagne has testified in over seventy court cases during his career and has assisted in the investigation of over 110 serial murderers and over 200 serial rapists. Van der Nest provided crucial evidence in Eugene Terre’Blanche’s murder trial.

I'm now searching an article which says, GL had been at the crime scene .......

 

[soozieqtips]

Because I don't remember his exact name, I have done a search, but unsuccessful. I'm going to google more ..... wait pleas ............. there it is........ Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne PhD - that person! IMO he was at the crime scene to support OP.

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/Witnesses

Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne PhD, who heads the Police’s Investigative Psychology Section, is named. So too is expert forensic specialist Lt Col Ian van der Nest – both men have testified in numerous high profile cases in the past. Labuschagne has testified in over seventy court cases during his career and has assisted in the investigation of over 110 serial murderers and over 200 serial rapists. Van der Nest provided crucial evidence in Eugene Terre’Blanche’s murder trial.

I'm now searching an article which says, GL had been at the crime scene .......

I remember that too. The policeman was allegedly a relative who said something like he would take care of OP (while he was at the crime scene).

 

[Cherwell]

.. downright weird, that is!

How the heck did he get to be renting it? It was sold to some other bloke (forgotten his name now), and yet somehow it is being rented back to a friend of Pistorius's? This whole thing just gets weirder by the minute!

Yes, I thought this Christo Menelaou lived on the estate, or at least nearby. Didn't he give an interview saying that he heard the shots but thought it was thunderclaps? Why would he need to be renting OP's old house?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

If “serial” means more than one, I believe there’s an excellent chance that OP will become a “serial” killer.

He’s already a social pariah who’s lost everything. He’s known to hang out with unsavory, very dangerous associates. He’s a tightly coiled mass of angst, anger, alcohol, “anxiety”, entitlement, narcissism and now, to make the mix even more volatile - bitterness at being branded an outcast, when he once ruled the world as a demi-god and the masses paid homage at his blades.

What’s to stop him from killing again?

Certainly not SA law, certainly not SA courts; with the entire arsenal of Pistorius family money and power behind him - already walking free from murdering one woman - why would he fear any real consequences or repercussions if he killed again?

This same scenario has been the story of his life - Oscar does exactly what Oscar wants (including murder). Familial excuses, friends and slick PR cover his every sin and he never, ever pays the price.

The Pistorius family created this monster, now the SA courts perpetuate his psychopathy ... and endanger everyone, especially women.

 

[Cherwell]

I remember that too. The policeman was allegedly a relative who said something like he would take care of OP (while he was at the crime scene).

I don't think he is a relative. It was probably misreported.

And I don't think there was anything fishy here. If you consider that this was a very very early stage, and put yourself into Micki P's shoes, you would probably do the same. She would naturally want to believe the best of her nephew. The intruder story was plausible, on the face of things. She has worked with many of the senior police and knows them well, so she rings round and finds that a former colleague is attending the scene, so asks him to look out for her nephew and protect him.

 

[delilah]

I've been wondering for some time how Masipa and the assessors could come to this conclusion:

"During the course of the trial it became clear that some of the sounds that witnesses interpreted as gunshots were actually not gunshots, but sounds of a cricket bat striking against the toilet door. It was also not contradicted that the shots were fired first and that the striking of the door, using a cricket bat, followed thereafter. "

And this is absolutely the basis on which she dismisses pretty much all of the ear witnesses, and most of the state's evidence:

"Significantly Ms Burger refused to concede that she could have missed hearing the first sounds – that is the shots..."

And, even more confused, she goes on to state...

"The shots were fired in quick succession. In my view, this means that the deceased would have been unable to shout or scream, at least not in the manner described by those witnesses who were adamant that they had heard a woman scream repeatedly. The only other person who could have screamed is the accused."

...seemingly completely oblivious to the fact that the state's case is that the screams came after the first sounds and before the second set.


Now I reckon everyone on this website who has been following the trial, including those who think OP is not guilty of murder, would agree that the state's version is that the first set of bangs were not the shots that killed RS (although Nel could not offer an explanation for them) and the second set of bangs comprised the four shots that did kill her. Batman's evidence was hardly conclusive but he did NOT conclude that all the bat marks must have been made after the shots, only that one of them probably had been.

It's one thing for Masipa to conclude that the first bangs were the shots and the second the bat strikes, but HTF can she possibly say that the sequence was not contested by the state?

So I went back to Nel's HofA and I think I found the answer. He seems to have assumed that everyone understood the state's position on the shots that killed RS being the second set, and it's implicit in his argument, but it's most definitely not explicit. See this:

"In summary, Annette Stipp was awake when she hears three gunshots (my comment: these were the first bangs). Directly after the last shot she heard a woman screaming."

"Johann Stipp was awoken by the sound of gunshots...Moments later he heard screams of a woman..."

On some other occasions he correctly refers to the first noises as the first set of bangs or sounds that witnesses thought were gunshots, and he does conclude this:

"To argue that the first sounds were the shots and the second sounds were the breaking open of the door will, of course, make it difficult for the defence to argue why the Nghlengethwas missed a series of sounds (the purportedly equally loud breaking down of the door)"

But, unless I've missed something, I reckon his lack of a clear statement that it was the second set that killed RS is what has helped Masipa and Co to come to the above erroneous conclusion. To be honest, it's seems to me that websleuthers paid far more attention to the state's case than did the judge or the assessors.

 

[jay-jay]

I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say that the family created the monster that is OP .. obv. he must already have had something within him, but they were also facilitators .. my violent ex partner's family were just the same, especially his mother who would always be making excuses for him. When he came around to my house while I was out, the weekend we broke up (for the last and final time), he smashed the front door in then trashed the rest of the house, leaving blood smears all down the walls and on the carpets (honestly, it was like something from a horror movie when I got back home, thank **** I hadn't been there when he broke in is all I can say) .. can you believe that his MOTHER came around and started trying to clear up, she told me on the phone later she was trying to sweep up all the glass etc, and it was all just so that her 'little boy' didn't look so bad. Fortunately the police weren't quite so taken in by it, and went round and arrested him at his mother's house. Whenever he used to get drunk and violent, she would end up turning it all around and blaming it on me .. it was never her precious son's fault, oh no .. the fact he had already been like it for 18 years before he met me didn't seem to register with her, the stupid woman.

 

[Cloen]

Because I don't remember his exact name, I have done a search, but unsuccessful. I'm going to google more ..... wait please ............. there it is........ Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne PhD - that person! IMO he was at the crime scene to support OP.

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/Witnesses

Brigadier Gerard Labuschagne PhD, who heads the Police’s Investigative Psychology Section, is named. So too is expert forensic specialist Lt Col Ian van der Nest – both men have testified in numerous high profile cases in the past. Labuschagne has testified in over seventy court cases during his career and has assisted in the investigation of over 110 serial murderers and over 200 serial rapists. Van der Nest provided crucial evidence in Eugene Terre’Blanche’s murder trial.

I'm now searching an article which says, GL had been at the crime scene .......

thanks , I am bit lost now - Are you saying that a relative of Oscar's is in the Police force and went to the crime scene the night he killed Reeva ? and was part of the investigation team,. (this is following on from your previous information on this)

 

[soozieqtips]

I don't think he is a relative. It was probably misreported.

And I don't think there was anything fishy here. If you consider that this was a very very early stage, and put yourself into Micki P's shoes, you would probably do the same. She would naturally want to believe the best of her nephew. The intruder story was plausible, on the face of things. She has worked with many of the senior police and knows them well, so she rings round and finds that a former colleague is attending the scene, so asks him to look out for her nephew and protect him.

I wasn't sure if he was a relative or not, as so many things which were reported at the beginning turned out not to be true. But I had wondered why it took so long for OP to be tested for alcohol.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9889625/
Ben Fogle: 'What was it that turned me into a monster – a ranting, raving lunatic?’

Sure it’s not the biggest deal. Many people do this to themselves on purpose, recreationally. Why, I have no idea. It turned me from a placid, calm, gentle individual into an aggressive, ranting monster.

I’m angry now. Angry that whoever did this put me in a situation where I held my children under the influence of a mind-altering substance. What if I had harmed them? We only have to look to the speculation about drugs and Oscar Pistorius to know the dangers.

Interesting article, found while searching on OP and ....

 

[homegirl]

Could the jeans be inside out? I sharpened the photo and enhanced the contrast. I labeled the parts as if it were. AJ, I think what some are interpreting as a belt is your #3. None of my jeans have any fabric facing just below the waistband, for what that's worth. I do have dress pants with some facing there. If there is a belt, the part which I labeled "What Is This" could be the end of the belt? I agree that the jeans wouldn't have been very useful to the State's case. Therefore, I wasn't overly interested in them, but all of the discussion piqued my curiosity about them. How I wish that we could see the original evidence photos.

View attachment 60002

I was considering that the jeans were something like this. I do agree with FromGermany about the grout line in the tile. That looks right. I can't believe photographing jeans went on my to do list for today LOL. I really don't have a strong opinion about the jeans. You could very well be right.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

thanks , I am bit lost now - Are you saying that a relative of Oscar's is in the Police force and went to the crime scene the night he killed Reeva ? and was part of the investigation team,. (this is following on from your previous information on this)

Yes. I'm searching a newspaper article in February/March 2013 ...... please be patient. :smile:

 

[homegirl]

I have just tested the jeans thing. Please take your jeans and then turn into: outer side out (left leg) and outer side inside (right leg), belt buckle left side (sight: outside of the jeans!), belt through loops from zipper left side and then loose (not through loops). Your question "What is this?" My answer: This is only the tile joint, perhaps.
Please, prove yourself. Could it be?

I don't understand what you mean. Maybe you can demonstrate with a pair of your jeans. I am boring myself with the folding of jeans. I think that you are right about the grout line in the tile.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I don't think he is a relative. It was probably misreported.

And I don't think there was anything fishy here. If you consider that this was a very very early stage, and put yourself into Micki P's shoes, you would probably do the same. She would naturally want to believe the best of her nephew. The intruder story was plausible, on the face of things. She has worked with many of the senior police and knows them well, so she rings round and finds that a former colleague is attending the scene, so asks him to look out for her nephew and protect him.

And then she sits on the floor encircling herself with Freud and Jung books because "circles have magic powers" that help her absorb knowledge. Unlike Uncle Arnold who "knows" the truth, she has to discover it for herself.

She claims to have extra-sensory perception, being able to pick up vibes without using the five normal
senses.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-pistorius-case-she-is-his-aunt-8508750.html

All this from someone who is arguably South Africa's most experienced criminal profiler.

What a pity the DT didn't call her as another one of their "expert" witnesses. Can you imagine Nel cross-examing her!!!

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't think he is a relative. It was probably misreported.

And I don't think there was anything fishy here. If you consider that this was a very very early stage, and put yourself into Micki P's shoes, you would probably do the same. She would naturally want to believe the best of her nephew. The intruder story was plausible, on the face of things. She has worked with many of the senior police and knows them well, so she rings round and finds that a former colleague is attending the scene, so asks him to look out for her nephew and protect him.

I would like to know which profile auntie Mikki would have had drawn up, if the murderer hadn't been known ....

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't understand what you mean. Maybe you can demonstrate with a pair of your jeans. I am boring myself with the folding of jeans. I think that you are right about the grout line in the tile.

I have no camera, sorry!

 

[jay-jay]

Interesting to see that " she has opposed long custodial sentences in some serious crime cases." and "she has written about her empathy for killers: "Serial killers are not monsters; they are human beings with tortured souls. I will never condone what they do, but I can understand them."

What a family.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Pistorius was fearful. So was Reeva. Why does one fear count for more than the other?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/11...s-one-fear-count-for-more-than-the-other.html

“There’s no reason to suppose that Pistorius’s fears were anything other than genuine, whatever we might think about his actions.”

I vehemently disagree with this statement.

Seriously, did the author pay close attention to the entire trial, especially OP’s testimony?!

One cannot neatly separate fear (or in this case, alleged “fear”) from actions.

She thinks his fears were GENUINE?!

That would entail the magical belief that open windows, slamming doors and magazine racks pose an imminent threat and that closed, locked doors can kill you.

 

[steveml]

We've heard a great deal about the things we have to believe in order to accept OP's version of events. However, I've yet to see anybody outline the particular things we need to believe in order to accept that OP is guilty of intent to kill Reeva. As we're supposed to look at the case for both sides with equally balanced points of reasoning, it would be interesting to hear anyone's views on what would need to be believed to accept their version of events. Obviously, many people will have a different version of events depending on how they believe OP committed the crime, but I presume that everybody's version isn't cut and dried, and relies on us having to take a leap of faith on a few things.

One of the things that make me a strong non-believer in many forum posters versions is the idea that OP mocked Reeva's screams in the way that has been suggested. I absolutely accept that people have been mocked sarcastically during domestic violence, but here we are talking about something entirely different. This couldn't possibly be quantified as a similar action. If you try and imagine someone doing this, they would direct mocking sarcasm at the victim, and the tone and demeanour would be one that shows disrespect and apathy towards the victim. Now try and place that same picture on the morning in question. We are expected to believe that OP mocked Reeva, but rather than mocking her apathetically or sarcastically he decided to mock her by making a scream at such volume that it was heard over a distance almost 2 football pitches away.

This idea is the exact opposite of how domestic violence perpetrators operate. The modus operandi of such a person is to direct everything towards the victim, whilst attempting to maintain an outward image of normality to people outside the relationship. I fail to see the connection between someone screaming in a distressed manner at such extreme volume with someone supposedly using a disrespectful mocking tone towards a victim. The two really are miles apart.

It's worth remembering that this suggestion wasn't proffered by the prosecution. It would never have been suggested because it contradicts typical domestic violence indicators.

This was simply a passing comment made by Michelle Burger when she was pushed for a response as to why OP would have screamed, bearing in mind he was the one supposed to be committing the violence. The comment was made off the top of her head, which is clear to see by re-watching the court testimony. The reason we know that it was is because she didn't suspect or suggest that it may have been a mocking tone at any time whatsoever prior to Roux's question during testimony. Both herself and Charl Johnson were convinced that the noises were related to a burglary at the time, and this was never disputed. This was nothing more than a throwaway comment made by Michelle Burger when she got a bit riled in court. As with a few things, it was blown out of proportion by people thinking this may have happened. She didn't even suggest that she thought this is what happened - she said 'perhaps' he may have been mocking. A simple speculative comment made by a witness became a necessity, so much so that many versions fell apart if they did not include this as a definitive action. We have seen another example of witness speculation hindering the trial, rather than helping.

 

[Cherwell]

And then she sits on the floor encircling herself with Freud and Jung books because "circles have magic powers" that help her absorb knowledge. Unlike Uncle Arnold who "knows" the truth, she has to discover it for herself.

She claims to have extra-sensory perception, being able to pick up vibes without using the five normal
senses.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-pistorius-case-she-is-his-aunt-8508750.html

All this from someone who is arguably South Africa's most experienced criminal profiler.

What a pity the DT didn't call her as another one of their "expert" witnesses. Can you imagine Nel cross-examing her!!!

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

I'm not quite sure why you quoted my post, as I only said that I thought her action in calling a trusted colleague was understandable.

Anyway, here is what Cape Town Crim had to say about it. It is a great pity that she hasn't posted recently. She seems to know a fair number of the individuals involved in this case. (She was spot on about Wollie Wolmarans!)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Discussion-Thread-30&p=10470803#post10470803