awaiting sentencing phase

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Oh the melodrama. Since when have a judge and assessors become 'toast' for making a decision, which by all accounts may not even be appealed?

Judges up and down the country often have verdicts challenged and sometimes overturned - they still carry on their job as normal. This isn't a topic of national security we're dealing with here - it's a shooting. A regular daily occurrence in SA.

This is not just 'making a decision' though is it.
It is a decision which has been made on the world stage and they are being ridiculed and pilloried for it worldwide.
They cannot escape from it..........they are now labelled and 'toast' in the eyes of their profession .............melodramatic maybe but live with it they will have to unfortunately.
I certainly wouldn't want them being involved in any trial concerning me or my family and friends after this debacle that's for sure.

ps
Do you think photo 55 is genuine or not?
You failed to respond to that question:)
 
"How could the accused reasonably have foreseen that the shots he fired would kill the deceased? Clearly he did not subjectively foresee this as a possibility that he would kill the person behind the door, letalone the deceased, as he thought she was in the bedroom at the time. To find otherwise would be tantamount to saying that the accused’s reaction after he realised that he had shot the deceased was faked; that he was play acting merely to delude the onlookers at the time."

It is quite scary for a judge to be so naive, to say the least...just amazing.

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Masipa say all that. Honestly, I thought I had misunderstood her.
 
Anni Dewani's family will be flying to Cape Town in the coming days ahead of the Oct 6 trial

I cannot help feeling sorry for Anni's family who, like Reeva Steenkamp's family, just want to know the truth.

“All we need from our side is justice for Anni. We want to know the truth.”

"Dewani was extradited to South Africa from the United Kingdom in April after a lengthy legal battle.

He was only deemed mentally fit to plead last month.

Deputy Judge President Jeanette Traverso will preside over the trial, which is scheduled to begin on 6 October.

She's regarded as the most senior female judge in the province."

So South Africa has chosen another female judge for this trial (but she is white) for a dark male defendant, Shrien Dewani. (I don't like to call him "black") whereas they chose a dark female judge for a white male defendant, Oscar Pistorius, for two these cases which have shocked the world.

Let's hope that both families get justice in the end but I don't know that they will ever get the truth.

Jeannette Traverso has been a Judge since 1994. That's 20 years.

See her credentials here:

http://whoswho.co.za/jeanette-traverso-5786

http://ewn.co.za/2014/09/29/Anni-Dew...r-murder-trial

Two families with beautiful daughters who died in South Africa and all they want is the truth and justice. But will they get it?
 
bbm
But "why on earth" was his name listed on the PT witness list? I don't understand at all ....

To keep Nel's options open on calling him of course.

Trial by ambush is not allowed. Nel properly disclosed his complete pool of witnesses but chose not to call this witness.

Judge Judi is likely correct as to the reason - that he was failing to cooperate.

The problem is that he has already given a false statement to police, so his credibility is zero.
 
IIRC, a poster a few months back explained it might have something to do with blasting through the door first before hitting Reeva. Not sure if that's correct sleuth-d, was just a theory I think.

thanks for the info. that would have been an interesting theory to read.
 
Honestly, if Pistorius was black, 100% of the people in the world would consider him guilty without a second thought.
 
Honestly, if Pistorius was black, 100% of the people in the world would consider him guilty without a second thought.

I don't agree with that, but substitute "ugly" for "black" and I think you'd be on to something.
 
"A bullet wound to her right hip, 92cm from the ground. Small 5mm hole found on shorts."

just wondering... how does a 9mm bullet make a 5mm hole on shorts?

IIRC, a poster a few months back explained it might have something to do with blasting through the door first before hitting Reeva. Not sure if that's correct sleuth-d, was just a theory I think.

Wasn't there something about the fabric being stretched by the passage of the bullet, then retracting?
 
No, I strongly disagree. The whole idea of a 'witness' is entirely that - you're supposed to have witnessed something. There's obviously a cast-iron alibi that he was elsewhere and both prosecution and defence are entirely happy with that. As both parties have no disagreement about this person, why on earth should they pointlessly bring him into court. They're not going to waste time and resources just to satisfy public curiosity - at the expense of taxpayers. The groundwork investigating an alibi is done before the trial commences.

BiB… Tenuous grasp of legal proceedings as per the various reasons a witness is called upon (or not) to testify in a criminal Trial.
 
many thanks.

"• A bullet wound to her right hip, 92cm from the ground. Small 5mm hole found on shorts."

just wondering... how does a 9mm bullet make a 5mm hole on shorts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×19mm_Parabellum#mediaviewer/File:9x19mm_Parabellum.svg

Resulting hole size from bullet entry point is dependent on the target material properties

The entry hole in flesh (or ballistic gel) can be a fraction of bullet diameter… whereas exit hole can be many times the bullet diameter.
 
I don't agree with that, but substitute "ugly" for "black" and I think you'd be on to something.

I'd go with "neither rich nor famous" over either ugly or black, but I think you both have a good point.
 
Slightly off-topic, but what are "basketball shorts"? I never heard the expression before this case.
Is there anything distinctive about shorts intended for playing basketball, or are they, like .... just shorts?

BBM - As far as I know, "baskeball shorts" means these "shapeless" loose shorts done with a kind of sweat shirt fabric and often in light grey colour.
 
Originally Posted by Mrjitty

I read the judgement and was so alarmed at the poor quality of legal reasoning and evidential analysis that I checked her CV. I thought maybe she might have a commercial or other background and was somewhat new to criminal.

But it turns out she is just wildly under-qualified.

I presume this is a just a result of the massive changes in South Africa.

NZ in the 2010s is able to promote top talent from year groups in the 1980s. People I graduated with in the mid 90s are still some way off Judge.

SA does not have that luxury (yet).

But surely surprising she would be considered for this case.

Perhaps that Masipa was chosen for this case is not surprising at all.

If the verdict was “pre-ordained” by certain “interested parties” (yes, after her explosive train wreck ruling, ALL my red flags went up), then what better judge than a black woman (tough on violent abusers) to deflect suspicion?

Unlike a white male judge (or even a white female), who could potentially be perceived as inherently biased from the word go if OP received favored treatment/acquittal, very few would expect Masipa to be biased; hence, any verdict she handed down would be deemed fair and impartial (well, that backfired spectacularly, didn’t it? :lol:). I doubt Masipa’s name was simply pulled out of a hat as next in line; for a super-high-profile case like OP - she was painstakingly chosen.

Masipa’s ruling is all the more suspicious, given her history of strict rulings and harsh sentences for rapists and women-killers. Perhaps a black female judge with relatively little experience was the throwaway scapegoat to suffer the world’s scorn for allowing SA’s murderous National Hero to walk free.

NEVER underestimate the unseen forces behind the scenes, those with vested interests in the outcome of a high-stakes game (especially when those interests are familial). With such ruthless people, the ends always justify the means. As in the US, where money-men and power players in every sphere
buy and sell influence at will, where the rich and famous routinely buy their way out of trouble while the poor are tossed into the prison black hole for far lesser offenses, SA has a deep history of corruption. Powerful, vested entities with the money and influence to do so would never leave the fate of Oscar Pistorius up to mere chance.

Do you honestly think a black female judge in SA (or any judge) could never be paid off, subtly intimidated and/or aggressively threatened under the right circumstances? I’m not saying this is what happened - I’m saying it’s entirely possible.

In fact, given the totality of this highly-unique, ultra-high-stakes murder case, in light of the insanely outrageous verdict from a judge who appears to have done a complete judicial 180, I’d say it’s more than probable.
 
Somebody had asked here on WS, what could happen next.

IMO Maybe, Mylady is going to retire (because of her real age).

Btw, I never would think of money that she has got but of great pressure from "above".
 
BRBM

This would confirm that bat strikes came after the shooting..HOWEVER..it wouldn't refute the possibility that bat strikes also came before the shooting..

I don't understand... are you saying you believe the Bat Strikes came both before and after the gunshots?

I stand by my opinion that it was a weakness in the State's HoA that Nel offered no arguments to promote the State's belief that the Bat Strikes came before the Gunshots.
 
I wonder if Nel might be thinking how fruitless it is to bring forward more witnesses for the sentencing, given how Masipa disregarded just about all the other ones he put on the stand. I know he has to carry on and do his best for Reeva's family, but I imagine he'll be feeling quite disheartened about everything now, and who could blame him.
 
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