AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe, 15 Jun 2013 - #8

[sleepymamaaz]

On the police report (pg 20), there was a witness who stated that she saw a hispanic female talking to a black male. Both subjects were picked up in a white cadillac.

Google Image 2004 Cadillac

Does this look like the vehicle in the screaming trunk incident

http://kpho.membercenter.worldnow.com/story/22007124/mesa-pd-screams-from-trunk-raises-suspicions

 

[sleepymamaaz]

On the police report (pg 20), there was a witness who stated that she saw a hispanic female talking to a black male. Both subjects were picked up in a white cadillac.

Google Image 2004 Cadillac

Does this look like the vehicle in the screaming trunk incident

http://kpho.membercenter.worldnow.com/story/22007124/mesa-pd-screams-from-trunk-raises-suspicions

I hate quoting myself, but I wanted to clarify that I chose that year and model because of what appears to be a varying texture (such as canvas or cloth) with an emblem on the space between the rear window and the rear passenger window. I hope I'm making sense :/

 

[Bernina]

White SUV makes me think of that video of people being rescued from the flood at almost the exact spot where she was found... wonder how much the 2 look alike??

Bernina, if she were buried at about the same area she was found, at a much later date than when she went missing (like after the flood receded), and then became exposed around the time she was found... could that scenario work, considering your knowledge/ experience of the area and all?

She was found in a debris pile from the flooding. This is above the level of the wash and is created when a tree, rock or other object becomes stuck in the water flow and collects other debris floating down in the flood waters.

"Kelly says the remains were discovered under a pile of silt and debris carried down the wash from a late-July flood in Apache Junction."
http://www.kpho.com/story/23152269/search-for-evidence-underway-in-desert-wash

"Under the bushes, I saw the legs, called the sheriff's [office]," Dan Kelly said."
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Skeletal-remains-in-Apache-Junction-possibly-those-of-Adrienne-Salinas-219763351.html

"Tempe police have confirmed the skeletal remains found in Apache Junction are those of missing 19-year-old Adrienne Salinas."
"We don't believe she was dumped in the area where we are searching," Pooley said. Police said they believe recent rains could have swept her body down the wash."
http://www.kpho.com/story/23145039/remains-found-in-wash-identified-as-adrienne-salinas

"Police are combing a four mile section of wash near the superstitions, looking for clues. They believe Salinas' body was dumped there and may have been washed downstream by floodwaters."

"You can have additional trauma hitting against rocks and debris in the wash, depends on the condition of the body when it first enters the wash, whether there was possibility of death at that site and left there or could have died somewhere else and dumped there."
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/23201702/2013/08/20/medical-examiner-discusses-adrienne-salinas-case

"Pooley said the skeletal remains were discovered in a wash on August 6 by property owner Dan Kelly."

"Kelly says after a big flood two weeks ago, he noticed vultures were showing up in the same spot every day. He assumed they were after coyotes until he finally took a closer look and spotted human legs"

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_southeast_valley/tempe/adrienne-salinas-update-family-confirms-body-is-missing-19-year-old

"We don't believe she was dumped in the area where we are searching," Pooley said. Police said they believe recent rains could have swept her body down the creek bed."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57598836-504083/adrienne-salinas-update-remains-idd-as-those-of-missing-ariz-college-student-police-say/

...and badly decomposed is also all over other News reports.

So, according to those quotes, the boys in the SUV aren't involved. They were also under the scrutiny of LE and the media the day they were rescued, and the next day, neighbors and the media were present when they dug and towed the vehicle out of the wash. LE say they believe she was "dumped" up stream and washed down. The boys were right where she ended up.
There's also different definitions for what the remains looked like: "human legs", "legs", "skeletal remains", "decomposed" and "badly decomposed". A layman like Kelly would have said "bones" or "skeleton" if that's what he saw. If that was the case, he might have thought it was just part of a range cow and kept walking. But he said "legs" and "human legs" suggesting that they may have been in a state of mummification because he could recognize that whatever it was, was human. If it had been "skeletal remains", the buzzards wouldn't have been there. So someone is playing fast and loose with the term they're using for what condition the remains were in. I'm going to believe Mr. Kelly, it was uncensored on video, and he certainly wasn't mincing words.
"Skeletal remains" don't remain intake taking a ride down 3+/- miles of wash. "Badly decomposed" remains don't survive a 3+/- mile ride either. Now, "mummified" remains would, the skin and connective tissue would be almost like leather and hold the skeleton together, it may have partially detached limbs from hitting fence posts, fencing, debris in the water, but it would pretty much hold together.

 

[Bernina]

Regarding the SUV, that's why I believe I noticed it in the first place. And why I'd like to know if that's a road or if the SUV is parked there. Guess I'll have to track down the maps someone worked hard on before. I stink at maps as well as directions.

The boys were just crossing flooded road, Lost Dutchman, they were caught by the driver behind them on his cell phone attempting to drive through the water and then being pushed by the current into the wash. The driver behind them called 911.
The blue arrows are the SUV from the road and pushed down the wash, the red is the remains.

 

[61Montcalm]

In reply to 2Hip2BSquare This was the car from back in April with the screams coming from the trunk FYI






I think this may be a Lincoln Town Car 2009 model year or so.

Tail lamps, license plate frame and front marker light look similar

Not sure if I posted this correctly.

MOO

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

In reply to 2Hip2BSquare This was the car from back in April with the screams coming from the trunk FYI

View attachment 36932

View attachment 36933


I think this may be a Lincoln Town Car 2009 model year or so.

Tail lamps, license plate frame and front marker light look similar

Not sure if I posted this correctly.

MOO

Wow awesome!!!!!!!

You are a gem!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I must be dense because I don't understand this. What's what and what do the letters and ? mean?

Damn margins!

Here let's try this again!

View attachment 36926

The first call was fielded- so it went to voicemail and Adrienne left a message.

The second call
Is Tom calling back that message.

The third call I believe is Tom checking in to say he was on his way and would be there in 10 minutes. Adrienne said she would be there in a minute to meet him at this time I believe. I hope I'm
Right on this.

The fourth, fifth, and 6th calls were all Tom trying to call Adrienne after he couldn't find her at the station. She never answers. I think. Lol again I'm just trying to remember the log correctly as Simon told me.

Cab_Guy, why didn't you correct the initial call time when you were talking to JVM who was filling in on the Nancy Grace show? The initial call, thought to have been made by Adrienne, was placed at 4:23 a.m. according to published reports and as mentioned on the NG show. I read your explanation on the show transcript that the initial call came in but went to dispatch so the cab company called Adrianne back.

According to the chart above, is the cab company claiming the initial contact began at the later time, 4:26 (versus 4:23)? Or is that when the cab driver returned AS's call? Why doesn't the original call show up as well? It may be on another invoice related to another number. Where's that copy?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm confused here. The number at the top of the page matches the number at the bottom. Do they have similar numbers? Are we only seeing his calls? Is this addriennes number?

Me as well. Who provides the phone service and I'd like to see the phone bill not isolated with the other numbers partially redacted. Anybody can type up a mock invoice (sorry, but true). Mainly interested in the correct times the calls were made and WHO made them.

What is their dispatch number versus the cab driver's cell phone number he uses while on the job. Surely his personal number would be different than his business number, yes?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The boys were just crossing flooded road, Lost Dutchman, they were caught by the driver behind them on his cell phone attempting to drive through the water and then being pushed by the current into the wash. The driver behind them called 911.
The blue arrows are the SUV from the road and pushed down the wash, the red is the remains.
View attachment 36931

The ironic placement, when seen together on a map, of the rescue location in relation to DK's property is so (too?) close. But, the fact that people live around there makes it more likely that non desert savvy peeps might feel more comfortable watching a storm from a nearby location versus out in the middle of the desert hidden altogether. That's my opinion - a non desert person. I mean, it's not like there's NOTHING around there for miles.

Another side of the coin, is that the location would be a known out of the way location (up further along the wash) that someone who didn't want to go too far out into the desert, or didn't know what to do with a body, might settle on. Then when the whole wash thing happened, they felt they needed to check up on the situation. And they were right but things went all wrong.

Do any young people live out there? I heard a reporter refer to DK's neighbor. So it's not as if they're the only ones living in the area. Of course distances could be like farms in the olden days - half mile to a mile apart to your nearest neighbor. Still people may know people who live out there.

 

[Brightbird]

I've just caught up on Adrienne's story. You folks have done an amazing job following this. I'm not up on all the details as there are many. Looking at cab_guy's phone record, the first call (4:26) is outgoing. Regardless of the accuracy of the times, there must be an earlier incoming call from Adrienne to the dispatch. Presumably the dispatch is a different phone number.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I've just caught up on Adrienne's story. You folks have an amazing job following this. I'm not up on all the details as there are many. Looking at cab_guy's phone record, the first call
(4:26) is outgoing. Regardless of the accuracy of the times, there must be an earlier incoming call from Adrienne to the dispatch. Presumably the dispatch is a different phone number.

This is correct. Thank you! I'm trying to obtain the dispatch record and post now. Redacting it is gonna be a B...

 

[Woe.be.gone]

On the topic of the white SUV. I see there is a driveway/lane of sorts - not an actual street where the SUV is.

What is the building behind slightly to the right of AMPM? Are cars parked in the parking lot during business hours and gone at night?
Even if there's a nightshift the whole parking lot wouldn't be filled. Plus it was Saturday.

The white SUV may have driven around the AMPM and turned down the parking lot of whatever that large building is on the same side of the street behind the AMPM. Or, the white SUV may have been parked there - have to look at that again as it's difficult to gage depth.

 

[Bernina]

The ironic placement, when seen together on a map, of the rescue location in relation to DK's property is so (too?) close. But, the fact that people live around there makes it more likely that non desert savvy peeps might feel more comfortable watching a storm from a nearby location versus out in the middle of the desert hidden altogether. That's my opinion - a non desert person. I mean, it's not like there's NOTHING around there for miles.

Another side of the coin, is that the location would be a known out of the way location (up further along the wash) that someone who didn't want to go too far out into the desert, or didn't know what to do with a body, might settle on. Then when the whole wash thing happened, they felt they needed to check up on the situation. And they were right but things went all wrong.

Do any young people live out there? I heard a reporter refer to DK's neighbor. So it's not as if they're the only ones living in the area. Of course distances could be like farms in the olden days - half mile to a mile apart to your nearest neighbor. Still people may know people who live out there.

Just "Google Map" "Apache Trail & Lost Dutchman Blvd, Apache Junction, AZ".
That area is South of Lost Dutchman and between Apache Trail and Goldfield Rd. has fairly new homes, many on big lots or acreage, and then the older homes that have been there for 40-50 years. Apache Junction has been growing and expanding, especially during the early 2000's. There are young families and professionals moving there.
Getting stuck or or washed down a wash is pretty common in Arizona during the spring and Monsoon season. Because non-locals who move here don't have a clue about the dangers or the so called capabilities of their vehicle in flood conditions, and were continually needing emergency services that could be used somewhere else, Arizona passed the "Stupid Motorist Law" (yes, that really is the name of it). If you drive through a flooded wash, posted or un-posted, and you get stuck or washed down stream, YOU pay for all the emergency services needed to pull you out of the situation. 4-6 inches of water over a roadway may look pretty easy to drive through, but it can push your vehicle sideways instantly if the current is fast enough, in some cases, even full size 4 x 4's. It will literally raise your tires off the pavement.
Lost Dutchman is a fast access to Apache trail, I think the speed limit is 45 mph (maybe 55?) and anyone living off that main access would use that instead of navigating residential streets which are 25 mph.
So the boys in the SUV driving on Lost Dutchman doesn't seem suspicious to me, and they were video'd getting swept away by the vehicle behind them. They just made a bad decision. That helicopter ride is going to cost them an arm and a leg, to say nothing about the costs of repairs to their 4 x 4. I hope they or their buddies know how to work on engines.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Sorry woe I'm not seeing the white SUV in any of the screen caps. It happened to me too a few threads back when I could have swore I saw a dark colored sedan in one of the pictures. It ended up being a gas pump or reflection or something that I saw. Not deflating your theory or what you are seeing! I'm just saying myself that I cannot see what you are seeing. May e you can edit the photo and out a circle around where you think the white SUV is and post it here? Otherwise, sorry, I just can't see it.

 

[illdigya]

Has anyone been following the Johnathan Croom thread - he's a teen who went missing from Apache Junction. Left on a spontaneous trip after July, drove up to Washington, back down through Oregon, and then presumably hung himself in the woods.

The reason I ask is his facebook is down now and I wondered if anyone checked to see if he and Adrienne had any friends in common. Any reason to believe he might have attended her party? He's a bit younger but just wondering.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Has anyone been following the Johnathan Croom thread - he's a teen who went missing from Apache Junction. Left on a spontaneous trip after July, drove up to Washington, back down through Oregon, and then presumably hung himself in the woods.

The reason I ask is his facebook is down now and I wondered if anyone checked to see if he and Adrienne had any friends in common. Any reason to believe he might have attended her party? He's a bit younger but just wondering.

I've wondered about this as well.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

The download feature on my bill is to export the data to another program such as excel. I don't have this carrier so I can't say for certain.

Cab Guy reported earlier that he deleted her vm and he could no longer access it.

Aha thank ya . So none of the calls are available to listen to anyhow. Phew! Would have been too much pressure!!!

 

[Bernina]

On the topic of the white SUV. I see there is a driveway/lane of sorts - not an actual street where the SUV is.

What is the building behind slightly to the right of AMPM? Are cars parked in the parking lot during business hours and gone at night?
Even if there's a nightshift the whole parking lot wouldn't be filled. Plus it was Saturday.

The white SUV may have driven around the AMPM and turned down the parking lot of whatever that large building is on the same side of the street behind the AMPM. Or, the white SUV may have been parked there - have to look at that again as it's difficult to gage depth.

Screen shot of AMPM and O'Reilly's.
Blue lines are path Adrienne would have been walking, don't see why she would have crossed the street to the O'Reilly's side when her apt was on the AMPM side of Hardy.
Green boxes are their respective businesses and parking areas. O'Reilly's has a high stucco wall around the non street property lines.
The building to the North of AMPM is a strip mall. None of those businesses are open 24 hours.

 

[cab guy]

http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=54655&cv=820#fbid=DAuAxEO4mAV

I'm not sure about the time the call ended thing. Especially when you initiate a call. I believe the time is listed from the time the call is connected (not just a dial tone/ringing) to either vm or person. Then they track the time and bill you for it at say, five minutes, but don't list the end time. So if you make a call at 5:00 and its picked up prompty, the call would show up on the bill as a call made at 5:00. Duration might be 5 mins but 5:05 wouldn't be listed - I've never heard of a system like that anyway.

If you pay by the minute, you want to know what time you placed the call and how many minutes you talked. It's easier to add than to subtract - just saying.

I'm trying to pin down facts. Imo it shouldn't be this difficult to do surrounding paper records.

When I retrieved these records for LE the week AS disappeared, I spoke with T-Mobile about this very issue. T-Mobile advised that the times are Pacific Standard because they are located there...and that the times you see on the left are the times the call ended and contact was lost with the tower. The minutes listed on the right represent the total length of time the call lasted...subtract that from the time the call endd and you know when the call was placed.--Cab Guy

 

[cab guy]

So you are saying you have recordings of the calls and can listen to them? Please confirm.

The only recording we had was the single voicemail left by AS when she first contacted the Cab company. As I stated way up stream, I erased that voice-mail on Sunday morning, pror to knowing AS was missing.