Identified! AZ - Coconino Co, 'Valentine Sally' WhtFem 585UFAZ, 14-19, along I-40, Feb'82 -Carolyn Celeste Eaton

[CarlK90245]

I suggested this a couple of weeks ago and was told in no uncertain terms that it was known she was murdered by strangulation.

Chuck Jones called me back. He was a quite chatty guy, and we spoke for about a half hour.

He indicated that Dena McHan was ruled out by default by CODIS. However, he wasn't able to tell me whether Cheryl Lynn Hall was ruled out or not. He doesn't have a rule-out list on this UID like he has with some other cases, and the case file is too large to check out while he was on the phone, but he didn't remember hearing her name. He is going to contact the L.A. County Sheriff to see what he can find out about CLH, and he will e-mail me back to let me know what what he finds out.

Regarding Valentine Sally, he spoke for quite a while about her case. He says that they don't know her cause of death, only that she was murdered. Evidence indicates that she was pulled out of the sleeper cab of a truck by her belt loops, and her sweater was pulled up over her head from being dragged by the arms. She was left under a cypress tree only a few feet off of the shoulder of the road. She had been dead for several days, and by the time she was found, her face had been badly picked at by animals. The area where she was found was at a long incline where trucks frequently stop to cool their brakes, so nobody would have paid much attention to a truck stopped at that point in the highway.

When I mentioned that CLH might be too old to look at as a possible, he said not at all. Their estimates have her at 16 to 22, although there is nothing to absolutely rule out that she might have been older. When I mentioned DoeNet's estimate of 14 to 19, he said that he should have DoeNet change that because there is no way that she was as young as 14.

He also said that he believes that the forensic sketch is pretty accurate. They had a witness - a waitress who served VS and the likely perp in a coffee shop. She said that the forensic sketch looked very much like the woman, and she also gave a pretty good description of the perp. They are sure that the waitress was talking about the same person because VS didn't want anything to eat at the cafe because she had a bad toothache. All she wanted was an aspirin and water. They learned later after the autopsy that VS had a uncompleted root canal.

He went on about a bunch more, but I think I'll leave it at that. I could be here all afternoon trying to summarize what he said.

Just going back to my notes that I wrote in 2010 right after talking to Detective Jones. He said they didn't know the COD, just that it was a homicide. I don't know what evidence they have that it was homicide, if they don't know COD, but I guess that rules out septicemia.

The newspaper articles written at the time of the discovery also state that they were unable to determine COD (See post #126).

 

[carbuff]

Just going back to my notes that I wrote in 2010 right after talking to Detective Jones. He said they didn't know the COD, just that it was a homicide. I don't know what evidence they have that it was homicide, if they don't know COD, but I guess that rules out septicemia.

The newspaper articles written at the time of the discovery also state that they were unable to determine COD (See post #126).

Thanks for finding that. Clear as mud

 

[Gourami Watcher]

Just going back to my notes that I wrote in 2010 right after talking to Detective Jones. He said they didn't know the COD, just that it was a homicide. I don't know what evidence they have that it was homicide, if they don't know COD, but I guess that rules out septicemia.

The newspaper article written at the time of the discovery also state that they were unable to determine COD (See post #126).

I just saw on the newspaper article on Melody Cutlip being identified as the victim that Valentine Sally was "fatally beaten" instead of any form of asphyxiation. Perhaps it appeared so because of the postmortem damage from scavenging animals?

 

[Springrain]

I made a Facebook page for her today.

https://www.facebook.com/ValentineSally1982/

I would really appreciate it if y'all could like & share her page!

 

[Springrain]

This is impractical, but I was looking for Valentine Sally possibles matches in NamUs and came across Angela Joann DeLawder. Here are her Charley and Missing in Florida pages. I wasn't able to find her on this thread brought up as a possibility for Valentine Sally. I made a side by side comparison of Angela and Valentine Sally, HERE. I tried to attach it here as well.

She wasn't on the rule-out list. Her dentals and fingerprints are not available. Her DNA is, but I'm still at a loss for how the NamUs DNA system works. Sorry.

Anyway, Angela went missing in March 1981, and would've been 20-21 when Valentine Sally died. Angela was 5'7 (2'' over Valentine Sally's height--not much of a difference, considering she was decomposed) and approximately 120 lbs., like Valentine Sally. She went missing with her mother, Gertrude Menacher, her boyfriend, 19-year-old Ivan Gutierrez, and her mom Gertrude's boyfriend, 45-year-old Charlie Gibson. I was unable to find any missing persons reports for Charlie or Ivan online, or even any pictures of them. They have never been recovered. But I did find Gertrude's Charley and NamUs pages.

Reason I doubt it is her (beside the time frame) is that the four's disappearance was probably drug-related. The story is on Angela's Charley Project, but short version, they thought Angela and her boyfriend may have been killed after witnessing Gertrude and Charlie being murdered. So for that reason, I doubt it is her, and I don't want to waste anyone's time. I just noticed a resemblance to Carl's recon and thought I'd put this (very slim) possibility up.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

Springrain, that sounds almost like the circumstances in three uid cases from Florida from 1982, except that they think the female found is Hispanic. http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1220uffl.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2506umfl.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2507umfl.html

I remembered it because I was looking for matches for the men a few weeks ago.

 

[Springrain]

http://azdailysun.com/blogs/crimina...cle_60c6aa7c-101c-11e3-9c62-0019bb2963f4.html

This has probably been posted, but here it is anyway. It has a photo of around the area in which she was discovered.

 

[BayouGypsy]

Geez. I wonder if maybe she could have died from accidentally overdosing of pain medication or an allergic reaction from the meds and the dudes that she was with freaked out and dumped her? It seems like there would be some dental office somewhere who would remember a patient coming in for a root canal and not showing up to finish it?

 

[anonymess]

I would like to add Kerry Lynelle Johnson to the suggestion pile. Height is off it really seems like that was estimated for her. She didn't seem to have a stable home. In reading the circumstances, I see potential for the last heard date to be wrong... Maybe this is a bad guess... But when I look at her picture I see similar features
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2660/0/

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Having read through the whole thread, I haven't noticed anyone suggesting that she might have been travelling with a stepfather rather than a father.

I can envisage a scenario in which her mother married or remarried a man 10 years older than herself, and several years later either died or walked out and leaving her daughter behind. While we would all no doubt like to think no mother would abandon a child like that there are plenty of cases where this has happened, especially if the daughter is of an age when she might be regarded as potentially independent. So this leaves a daughter living with a step father who doesn't want her around and maybe taking her on a trip with the intention of disposing of her one way or another.

How easy it would be to return from a trip without her, making reasonably plausible excuses if there was anyone to ask about her whereabouts. "She got a job at a truckstop in Arizona. Don't worry, she'll call when she's settled in." But of course she never calls.

 

[Vital Forces]

Having read through the whole thread, I haven't noticed anyone suggesting that she might have been travelling with a stepfather rather than a father.

I can envisage a scenario in which her mother married or remarried a man 10 years older than herself, and several years later either died or walked out and leaving her daughter behind. While we would all no doubt like to think no mother would abandon a child like that there are plenty of cases where this has happened, especially if the daughter is of an age when she might be regarded as potentially independent. So this leaves a daughter living with a step father who doesn't want her around and maybe taking her on a trip with the intention of disposing of her one way or another.

How easy it would be to return from a trip without her, making reasonably plausible excuses if there was anyone to ask about her whereabouts. "She got a job at a truckstop in Arizona. Don't worry, she'll call when she's settled in." But of course she never calls.

Thank you for your contribution, but there are some issues here.

If you're planning on murdering someone, you probably aren't going to want to be seen right beforehand in public with numerous witnesses.

If you planned to kill someone, you would probably do a better job of hiding the body than dragging it 25 feet off the Interstate.

The stepfather in this scenario is committing murder, a crime he would to prison for the rest of his life for, when all he would have to do it tell her to leave, with little to no consequences to himself.

The trucker appeared to be concerned about her well-being.

The facts keep pointing to her murder/death being sudden and the coverup being fairly improvised.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Thank you for your contribution, but there are some issues here.

There are of course objections to any theory or scenario any of us put forward, considering that she and her (likely) killer remain unidentified 30 years after her death. Whatever the truth might have been, this guy has likely got away with murdering a girl who remains unidentified after all this time so from his point of view he got it "right".

If you're planning on murdering someone, you probably aren't going to want to be seen right beforehand in public with numerous witnesses.

True, but in the time before widespread CCTV you're relying on (unreliable) human memory remembering people who might have been from anywhere in the US and going anywhere in the US, being seen in high traffic places by people who saw hundreds if not thousands of faces a day.

If you planned to kill someone, you would probably do a better job of hiding the body than dragging it 25 feet off the Interstate.

Unless you had done this on previous occasions and know that it is enough to prevent the body being identified and linked back to you. Given the vastness of the US and the state of forensics and local police departments in 1982 this might have been a safe bet. After all, we now are aware of just how many transient girls and young women were murdered during this period and how few have been identified since.

The stepfather in this scenario is committing murder, a crime he would to prison for the rest of his life for, when all he would have to do it tell her to leave, with little to no consequences to himself.

True, unless the daughter inherited substantial amounts of money or property from her mother that the hypothetical stepfather wanted, eg a trucking business. The girl conveniently disappears, he has her declared dead after 7 (or however many) years. Job done.

The trucker appeared to be concerned about her well-being.

You wouldn't beat someone up or abuse them in public if you were planning to kill or rape them later.

In any event, I'm not wedded to this theory. I'm merely exploring it as it had not been mooted previously. If all else fails, it's probably a reasonably good plot for a novel!

 

[Tony1902]

And if I were to write a mystery I'd begin with the beautiful, sacred, rugged landscape of Coconino, ancestral home of the Anasazi, populated by very few, but there's Williams, scene of two murders, 20> years apart of an older European woman & a young American. Though I can't seem to tell how far the bodies were from each other, in the places where they were found. Although I did earlier suggest some rather shifty road types, there's some even more dodgy lawless types around the state.

How the Google doth make able investigators of us all....

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Designer blue jeans, "Seasons" brand, size 9,

I wonder if these jeans were genuine "designer" clothing or one of those brands which crops up from time to time which regards itself as "designer" but in reality is a just an ordinary brand.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, Pierre Cardin presented itself as "designer" but the merchandise was everywhere and the prices and distribution were firmly in the mass-market range.

Currently (at least in the UK) Michael Kors is being presented as "designer" but a whole range of the brand's merchandise from watches to bags to jewellery is being flogged at knock-down prices on Groupon.

IME, genuine designers do not chase the mass market nor to they routinely flog their stuff off cheap. On the contrary, they are very keen to establish the exclusivity of their products and use pricing to ensure they stay out of the hands of hoi polloi.

So, it would be a good hint as to the socio-economic background of this young woman if we knew whether the jeans were genuine "designer" or not.

 

[Alleykins]

I'm not a fashion history buff, but I don't recall a Seasons brand name for jeans in the 80s. Anyone else ever heard of them?

 

[carbuff]

I'm not a fashion history buff, but I don't recall a Seasons brand name for jeans in the 80s. Anyone else ever heard of them?

Look back through the thread; I don't remember the answer but I do remember it's been discussed. If you can't find it, I'll look in a couple of days, when I'm on my laptop.

In most of the west in 1980, designer jeans meant anything that's not Lee, Levi, or Wrangler...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alleykins]

Look back through the thread; I don't remember the answer but I do remember it's been discussed. If you can't find it, I'll look in a couple of days, when I'm on my laptop. In most of the west in 1980, designer jeans meant anything that's not Lee, Levi, or Wrangler...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it's already been discussed, then I'm all set. I was just curious because I'd never heard of them before. I always considered designer jeans a step above Guess and Calvin Klein, like Versace-anything I couldn't buy at the boutiques at the mall, LOL.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

If it's already been discussed, then I'm all set. I was just curious because I'd never heard of them before. I always considered designer jeans a step above Guess and Calvin Klein, like Versace-anything I couldn't buy at the boutiques at the mall, LOL.

I've never been interested in fashion but my sister was. I remember her hankering, around 1980, after Gloria Vanderbilt branded jeans. From memory they were about twice the price of the likes of Levis, Wrangler etc, so definitely not in what I would call "designer" territory. To be fair, though, I'm not sure that jeans could ever be called "designer". Jeans are pretty much jeans even if some cost more than others.

ETA that maybe a museum of fashion or a university which offers history of fashion might be the place to enquire.

 

[Onfortuneswheel]

The Florida Missing Persons database has a profile for an 18-year-old that went missing from Jacksonville, FL in 1982 (date last seen is listed as 1/1/1982 so I'm guessing the person who filed the report couldn't remember that exact date).

Name: Sherri Lynette Savage
Height: 65 inches
Weight: 110lbs
Hair: Blond or Strawberry
Eyes: Blue

I haven't been able to find any photos or additional background about her but the general information seems to match up. Thoughts on submitting?

 

[CarlK90245]

The Florida Missing Persons database has a profile for an 18-year-old that went missing from Jacksonville, FL in 1982 (date last seen is listed as 1/1/1982 so I'm guessing the person who filed the report couldn't remember that exact date).

Name: Sherri Lynette Savage
Height: 65 inches
Weight: 110lbs
Hair: Blond or Strawberry
Eyes: Blue

I haven't been able to find any photos or additional background about her but the general information seems to match up. Thoughts on submitting?

Ancestry lists a Sherry Lynn Savage with addresses in Greenville TX and San Antonio TX, and a DOB one day before the DOB listed in the Florida database.