AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[worm]

The “animal lying face down” is a rattling statement tho I know his defense will carve it up with “he could have meant” semantics.

 

[NuttMegg]

Here's a usa source for the same information, plus a bit more, also there is a new audio from BP in the article:

BP says GK was intentionally vague

Says he "possibly struck something"

Per BP Kelly said he "was shooting at five, who were shooting back at him"

Per the MSM source Kelly said. "I only approached the body to make sure the animal is not a vegetable or a mineral. The animal was not alive and it is not alive. There were no signs of blood. There was just an animal laying facedown.”

Body cams were not used by BP/LE

Exclusive | Arizona rancher accused of killing migrant was ‘intentionally vague,’ 911 calls reveal

“It’s very serious, ma’am, and I’m not going to talk over the telephone,” a frantic Kelly told the dispatcher.

nypost.com

 

[RANCH]

Here's a usa source for the same information, plus a bit more, also there is a new audio from BP in the article:

BP says GK was intentionally vague

Says he "possibly struck something"

Per BP Kelly said he "was shooting at five, who were shooting back at him"

Per the MSM source Kelly said. "I only approached the body to make sure the animal is not a vegetable or a mineral. The animal was not alive and it is not alive. There were no signs of blood. There was just an animal laying facedown.”

Body cams were not used by BP/LE

Exclusive | Arizona rancher accused of killing migrant was ‘intentionally vague,’ 911 calls reveal

“It’s very serious, ma’am, and I’m not going to talk over the telephone,” a frantic Kelly told the dispatcher.

nypost.com

Does this mean Mr Kelly was arrested for being "intentionally vague."?

A Border Patrol supervisor called the sheriff’s office about Kelly, reporting the rancher was being “intentionally vague” when supplying the agents with details over the shooting, according to a recording of the conversation.

Looks like there's a recording of Border Patrol talking to the sheriff's office about what Mr Kelly allegedly said to them.

Is there a recording of the conversations between Mr Kelly and the Border Patrol? Sounds like the supervisor didn't talk directly with Mr Kelly but is relaying second hand information to the sheriff's office.

Lots of unanswered questions in this case. JMO.

Exclusive | Arizona rancher accused of killing migrant was ‘intentionally vague,’ 911 calls reveal

“It’s very serious, ma’am, and I’m not going to talk over the telephone,” a frantic Kelly told the dispatcher.

nypost.com

 

[worm]

Him not calling medical help for the animal immediately after is a red flag as well. Being vague will instantly alarm cops as it so often is a true signal that something isn’t right.

 

[Lilibet]

Does this mean Mr Kelly was arrested for being "intentionally vague."?

As I’m sure you know, being “intentionally vague” is not against the law. But when LE is trying to sort out the facts, being intentionally vague can lead to apparently conflicting stories. And contradictions will be a red flag to LE, who will then dig deeper and possibly find grounds to charge for a crime…in this case, first degree murder, initially.

JMO

 

[RANCH]

As I’m sure you know, being “intentionally vague” is not against the law. But when LE is trying to sort out the facts, being intentionally vague can lead to apparently conflicting stories. And contradictions will be a red flag to LE, who will then dig deeper and possibly find grounds to charge for a crime…in this case, first degree murder, initially.

JMO

The problem I have with this case is LE didn't take the time to dig deeper. They arrested and charged MR Kelly the day after C-B was shot. JMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

"Speaking to Newsweek, Black said: "The prosecution would have been required to prove premeditation to go with first-degree murder, whereas second-degree requires extreme indifference to human life (i.e., shooting into a group of people).
"The latter is much easier to prove and fits the facts better from what I have read.

Arizona Rancher Accused of Shooting Migrant Has Two Main Defense Options

Arizona rancher accused of shooting migrant has two main defense options

George Alan Kelly has been charged with second-degree murder but denies the charges. A Defense attorney spoke to Newsweek about his potential defense options.

www.newsweek.com

 

[NuttMegg]

More specific details on what the wife told BP:

"Around 3 p.m., a Border Patrol agent called the sheriff’s office to relay a conversation with Kelly’s wife.

The agent claims Kelly’s wife said the rancher was following a group of five people who had come onto their property.

"[Kelly] is currently trying to pursue them. He's chasing them south," the agent said. "

Border Patrol agent claims Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly being 'intentionally vague' in 911 calls: report

Border Patrol agents are heard casting doubt on Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly's pleas for help, hours before deputies found the body of Mexican national Gabriel Cuen Buitimea.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Lilibet]

The problem I have with this case is LE didn't take the time to dig deeper. They arrested and charged MR Kelly the day after C-B was shot. JMO.

It seems fast, I agree. On the other hand, there is likely to be information that we don’t have. Digging deeper doesn’t always require a lot of time. For example, his wife’s statement that GK was “chasing” them south could be part of LE deciding to arrest him. As we know from following many cases, a contradictory story along with other evidence can quickly lead to an arrest. LE doesn’t have to have every piece of evidence initially. Their investigation continues after an arrest and often until shortly before the trial.
JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

It seems fast, I agree. On the other hand, there is likely to be information that we don’t have. Digging deeper doesn’t always require a lot of time. For example, his wife’s statement that GK was “chasing” them south could be part of LE deciding to arrest him. As we know from following many cases, a contradictory story along with other evidence can quickly lead to an arrest. LE doesn’t have to have every piece of evidence initially. Their investigation continues after an arrest and often until shortly before the trial.
JMO

I'm not sure if we know that GCB was 80-100-150± yards away from Kelly's when he allegedly shot him. I think we know he was that far from the house when found deceased. We know, for example, that there were 9 shell casings near his house, one in one place and 8 more subsequently found near the house. (Was "around" the term used?)

But if he took after them, chasing or pursuing the 5-10-15 people (says 5 in the article I posted but he is quoted elsewhere as saying 10 and saying his wife verified 10), he could have been much closer when GCB was shot in the back. LE could have found casings even closer, but that information may be withheld. And, that would more logically explain the trajectory if the victim was shot from a closer distance.

On this forum I 've seen a lot of supposition that the people were closer to Kelly's house, but maybe he was voluntarily closer to them, chasing them down with the ak47.

Witness(es): It felt like I was being hunted. And, there was firing from the bushes. Para

Imo

 

[RANCH]

I'm not sure if we know that GCB was 80-100-150± yards away from Kelly's when he allegedly shot him. I think we know he was that far from the house when found deceased. We know, for example, that there were 9 shell casings near his house, one in one place and 8 more subsequently found near the house. (Was "around" the term used?)

But if he took after them, chasing or pursuing the 5-10-15 people (says 5 in the article I posted but he is quoted elsewhere as saying 10 and saying his wife verified 10), he could have been much closer when GCB was shot in the back. LE could have found casings even closer, but that information may be withheld. And, that would more logically explain the trajectory if the victim was shot from a closer distance.

On this forum I 've seen a lot of supposition that the people were closer to Kelly's house, maybe he was voluntarily closer to them, chasing them down with the ak47.

Witness(es): It felt like I was being hunted. And, there was firing from the bushes. Para

Imo

LE could have found exculpatory evidence that they haven't given the defense yet. JMO.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

On this forum I 've seen a lot of supposition that the people were closer to Kelly's house, but maybe he was voluntarily closer to them, chasing them down with the ak47.



Imo

RSBM

Maybe it’s because that is what the witness has suggested.

The witness RAFG said that Mr. Kelly shot GCB near his house at very close range. (Motion for Review of Magistrate’s Probable Cause Determination)

But the witnesses have said many things that are not true. Imo

 

[PrairieWind]

I was looking at googleearth. Does Kelly own the land from his house down to the border?

 

[WingsOverTX]

I was looking at googleearth. Does Kelly own the land from his house down to the border?

No. His property line is 1.5 miles from the border. This was discussed early in the thread.

His property does not touch the border. His property is in Kino Springs and Kino Springs doesn't touch the border. This map shows it really clear. His ranch is only 1.5 miles from the border.

https://www.mapquest.com/us/arizona/kino-springs-az-282087901

Kino Springs, Arizona - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[PrairieWind]

No. His property line is 1.5 miles from the border. This was discussed early in the thread.

Thanks. I figured that had been discussed, but I didn't have time to go wade through the thread.

 

[SteveS]

There's not a scale on this map, but 905 yds x 905 yds would be the approximate footprint of a square tract of 169.5 acres. You can use the border of the property on this map as a rough scale, to ballpark the distance from the southern boundary to the border. I'd guesstimate it's about a mile, more or less, which is not that far at all.

VERMILION MOUNTAIN RANCH

Vermilion Mountain Ranch is a must see property. This absolutely beautiful ranch includes 169.5 +/- acres of native grass lands with varied terrain and vegetation. It is a very picturesque setting wit

www.landandfarm.com

 

[PrairieWind]

There's not a scale on this map, but 905 yds x 905 yds would be the approximate footprint of a square tract of 169.5 acres. You can use the border of the property on this map as a rough scale, to ballpark the distance from the southern boundary to the border. I'd guesstimate it's about a mile, more or less, which is not that far at all.

VERMILION MOUNTAIN RANCH

Vermilion Mountain Ranch is a must see property. This absolutely beautiful ranch includes 169.5 +/- acres of native grass lands with varied terrain and vegetation. It is a very picturesque setting wit

www.landandfarm.com

Thanks. It is further than I was picturing in my mind before I looked at googleearth. I wonder what the plan of the migrants was. Certainly they would have likely had arrangements to meet someone to get picked up.

 

[Laughing]

Thanks. It is further than I was picturing in my mind before I looked at googleearth. I wonder what the plan of the migrants was. Certainly they would have likely had arrangements to meet someone to get picked up.

Up thread, a witness is quoted as paying $2500 for guide service to meet a farmer in Phoenix.

Another witness stated that GCB was the guide.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Border Patrol staffer questioned whether Ariz. rancher was ‘crazy’ when calling about alleged drug traffickers

A Border Patrol staffer asked if Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly was "crazy" when calling about alleged drug traffickers before a Mexican national was found dead.

www.foxnews.com

The Santa Cruz County Attorney’s Office, in releasing the calls ranging about 30 seconds to 8 minutes in length, stressed Kelly never dialed 911. The recordings are relays and contact initiated by dispatch.
(…)
In another recording, the Nogales Border Patrol Station admits to relaying "third-hand" information.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Border Patrol staffer questioned whether Ariz. rancher was ‘crazy’ when calling about alleged drug traffickers

A Border Patrol staffer asked if Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly was "crazy" when calling about alleged drug traffickers before a Mexican national was found dead.

www.foxnews.com

The Santa Cruz County Attorney’s Office, in releasing the calls ranging about 30 seconds to 8 minutes in length, stressed Kelly never dialed 911. The recordings are relays and contact initiated by dispatch.
(…)
In another recording, the Nogales Border Patrol Station admits to relaying "third-hand" information.

Without hearing (or reading) the calls in proper order verbatim, how can we make sense of anything anyone said on any of these calls?

The article is a bit garbled to me. The quotes of conversations need to be laid out by time stamp. Just quoting them at random out of context tells us nothing.

It sounds to me that too many agencies are involved & responding differently. And who are these BP "customers"?

I'm glad more info is coming out. But clarity is a must as justice has to be based on facts.

I hope we can hear it all ourselves. Until then, I remain unconvinced of anything.
JMO