AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[WingsOverTX]

Border Patrol staffer questioned whether Ariz. rancher was ‘crazy’ when calling about alleged drug traffickers

A Border Patrol staffer asked if Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly was "crazy" when calling about alleged drug traffickers before a Mexican national was found dead.

www.foxnews.com

The Santa Cruz County Attorney’s Office, in releasing the calls ranging about 30 seconds to 8 minutes in length, stressed Kelly never dialed 911. The recordings are relays and contact initiated by dispatch.
(…)
In another recording, the Nogales Border Patrol Station admits to relaying "third-hand" information.

Bias seems clear if indeed instead of responding appropriately, they called GK crazy. And then we know the rush to judgment that followed.

Never dialed 911? The responses he's getting don't make me confident that would have changed anything. GK tried to do due diligence, calling BP & the sheriff but he's the problem? Right.

JMO

 

[AZLocal]

Without hearing (or reading) the calls in proper order verbatim, how can we make sense of anything anyone said on any of these calls?

The article is a bit garbled to me. The quotes of conversations need to be laid out by time stamp. Just quoting them at random out of context tells us nothing.

It sounds to me that too many agencies are involved & responding differently. And who are these BP "customers"?

I'm glad more info is coming out. But clarity is a must as justice has to be based on facts.

I hope we can hear it all ourselves. Until then, I remain unconvinced of anything.
JMO

BP seems to be referring to migrants as “customers” in this context, and I’ve heard it from them myself personally.

I wonder if their assessment of Mr. Kelly as “crazy” is from their extensive prior interactions with him.

JMO MOO IMO JM2P MOS

 

[FLmom777]

I wonder if the Sheriff and the DA had their fingers in their ears when that was reported? Just sayin...

It was confirmed by the person took the call that he told them that. That detail was not provided to the officer that was responding to the call.

 

[neesaki]

The video showing the interview is interesting. The woman being interviewed is a ranch owner close to the border in Texas. In her opinion, this was a set up…. they are using GK as an example to put fear in the other ranch owners along the border, I.e., they don’t want them defending themselves or their property. She’s had several attempted break ins and has spent several thousand dollars on security.

Border Patrol staffer questioned whether Ariz. rancher was ‘crazy’ when calling about alleged drug traffickers

A Border Patrol staffer asked if Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly was "crazy" when calling about alleged drug traffickers before a Mexican national was found dead.

www.foxnews.com

 

[neesaki]

Without hearing (or reading) the calls in proper order verbatim, how can we make sense of anything anyone said on any of these calls?

The article is a bit garbled to me. The quotes of conversations need to be laid out by time stamp. Just quoting them at random out of context tells us nothing.

It sounds to me that too many agencies are involved & responding differently. And who are these BP "customers"?

I'm glad more info is coming out. But clarity is a must as justice has to be based on facts.

I hope we can hear it all ourselves. Until then, I remain unconvinced of anything.
JMO

So according to that BP agent, they’re calling illegal immigrants “customers” now. <modsnip>

 

[NuttMegg]

Bias seems clear if indeed instead of responding appropriately, they called GK crazy. And then we know the rush to judgment that followed.

Never dialed 911? The responses he's getting don't make me confident that would have changed anything. GK tried to do due diligence, calling BP & the sheriff but he's the problem? Right.

JMO

No one called him crazy. His story wasn't adding up, and based on previous calls from Kelly which seemed to be exaggerated, someone, apparently >1 person, questioned what was going on. And they were responding "appropriately", but Kelly would not even tell the dispatcher what was going on, so she could tell the agents what danger to expect. He could have been putting them in a life-endangering situation, but Kelly, imo, did not seem to value the lives of these agents. His wife's version was not adding up to Kelly's. BP is busy, i can understand the frustration from the dispatcher and the agent/s at Kelly's obfuscation, evasion, and apparent intentional vagueness about the presence of a body.

it is indicative of his attitude of entitlement and disregard for human life that he did not bother to call 911. Imo
BBM
--------------------------

"My agents made contact with the caller’s spouse, who stated that there were five on the property, and the caller is currently trying to pursue them and is chasing them south. The five had a large backpack and possibly a rifle."
----------_
" I don’t know for sure this guy’s getting shot at or not," the agent tells dispatch. "What sometimes happens is some of our customers go through his property, and then, I don’t know if he’s crazy or what’s going on."
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"His last statement was he thinks that they were shooting at him and thought he heard gunshots," the agent adds. "But then he saw people running. But he didn’t see any firearms. "
-----------

"This same guy, he’s made this call before," the agent says. "And it ended up just being aliens on his property, and he says the same thing … Obviously we have to take it seriously."
_------------
The dispatcher asks, "And you are sure an EMT cannot help?"

"I am positive. I have a medical background. An EMT cannot help," Kelly says. The dispatcher asks, "Do you know whoever it is who you saw?" Kelly says, "No, I didn’t say it was anybody. I just said it’s a body."
_-----------

Border Patrol staffer questioned whether Ariz. rancher was ‘crazy’ when calling about alleged drug traffickers

A Border Patrol staffer asked if Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly was "crazy" when calling about alleged drug traffickers before a Mexican national was found dead.

www.foxnews.com

 

[AZLocal]

The video showing the interview is interesting. The woman being interviewed is a ranch owner close to the border in Texas. In her opinion, this was a set up…. they are using GK as an example to put fear in the other ranch owners along the border, I.e., they don’t want them defending themselves or their property. She’s had several attempted break ins and has spent several thousand dollars on security.

Border Patrol staffer questioned whether Ariz. rancher was ‘crazy’ when calling about alleged drug traffickers

A Border Patrol staffer asked if Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly was "crazy" when calling about alleged drug traffickers before a Mexican national was found dead.

www.foxnews.com

I’m not sure what she means by the BP not wanting her to defend her property. She mentions in the interview that she’s been able to take numerous steps to defend it, including upgraded security on which she spent quite a lot of money. Mr. Kelly also seems to have had good access to BP and they often came out to assist him. So I’m just not sure what the TX rancher means in this case about BP not wanting them to defend their property.

 

[NuttMegg]

"George Alan Kelly reportedly called back to tell the liaison he had “possibly struck something,” according to a Border Patrol agent who informed a Sheriff’s Office dispatcher about the call.
“(Kelly) called our ranch liaison again. This time, he’s being intentionally vague,” the agent told the dispatcher in a call made at 5:52 p.m. that day. “What he said was, in checking his property, he believes that he possibly struck something.”
“He said those words: ‘Possibly struck something,’” the agent repeated, according to a 911 recording obtained by the NI Tuesday.

'Possibly struck something:' 911 calls widen glimpse into Kelly case

Shortly after telling a U.S. Border Patrol ranch liaison that there had been shots fired on his Kino Springs ranch on Jan. 30, George Alan Kelly reportedly called back to

www.nogalesinternational.com

 

[neesaki]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
The relevant issue is that she’s a landowner near the border, and the problems she has experienced with illegal immigrants.

I don’t know if I agree that BP doesn’t want them defending themselves, but then AZ may be different than Texas?

 

[NuttMegg]

The relevant issue is that she’s a landowner near the border, and the problems she has experienced with illegal immigrants.

I don’t know if I agree that BP doesn’t want them defending themselves, but then AZ may be different than Texas?

It may come down to a landowner chasing down immigrants (per Kelly's wife) and allegedly shooting one in the back a football field away. So, I think the defense will argue that he was "defendiing himself" even though he was chasing them, which seems ludicrous.

Probably a wife doesn't have to testify against her husband, (?) but if her words were recorded by BP or LE? Seems to me that would be admissible, and much of the case will be settled by the wife's words, contradicting Kelly.

Imo

 

[cvaldez1975]

The video showing the interview is interesting. The woman being interviewed is a ranch owner close to the border in Texas. In her opinion, this was a set up…. they are using GK as an example to put fear in the other ranch owners along the border, I.e., they don’t want them defending themselves or their property. She’s had several attempted break ins and has spent several thousand dollars on security.

Border Patrol staffer questioned whether Ariz. rancher was ‘crazy’ when calling about alleged drug traffickers

A Border Patrol staffer asked if Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly was "crazy" when calling about alleged drug traffickers before a Mexican national was found dead.

www.foxnews.com

its anecdotal to me.

 

[cvaldez1975]

So according to that BP agent, they’re calling illegal immigrants “customers” now. <modsnip>

they always have. i worked at county corrections from 95-2003 and they called them that then.

 

[cvaldez1975]

That case was a total mess. Still not sure what to think.

well its all kinds of messed up that the abused woman shot over her abusers head and went to prison for 20 years too. Florida......

 

[PrairieWind]

well its all kinds of messed up that the abused woman shot over her abusers head and went to prison for 20 years too. Florida......

Wait, are we talking about the same case? Wasn't she killed?

 

[Lilibet]

Wait, are we talking about the same case? Wasn't she killed?

You were responding to mention of Sara Morales, who was killed. I think that OT post was removed, hence the confusion.

 

[PrairieWind]

You were responding to mention of Sara Morales, who was killed. I think that OT post was removed, hence the confusion.

I think so. I don't think it was totally off topic actually. But we can move one anyway.

 

[everybodhi]

Staying on topic, who among the gun owners here would fire a warning shot over the heads of a group of men on your property, dressed in camouflage and armed with AK-47’s, after you see the “leader” of the group point an AK-47 at you?
This is what the defense alleges.
It seems an odd choice of action for a knowledgeable gun advocate under direct threat and in fear of their life to take and defies common sense in my opinion.

 

[NuttMegg]

Staying on topic, who among the gun owners here would fire a warning shot over the heads of a group of men on your property, dressed in camouflage and armed with AK-47’s, after you see the “leader” of the group point an AK-47 at you?
This is what the defense alleges.
It seems an odd choice of action for a knowledgeable gun advocate under direct threat and in fear of their life to take and defies common sense in my opinion.

May be what the defense says, but his very own wife says HE was pursuing THEM.. Surely the wife is credible.

 

[RANCH]

May be what the defense says, but his very own wife says HE was pursuing THEM.. Surely the wife is credible.

So Mr Kelly pursued the trespassers and then retreated to his porch were he fired his gun leaving the empty shell casings behind. I'm not sure that scenario helps the State's case. JMO.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Staying on topic, who among the gun owners here would fire a warning shot over the heads of a group of men on your property, dressed in camouflage and armed with AK-47’s, after you see the “leader” of the group point an AK-47 at you?
This is what the defense alleges.
It seems an odd choice of action for a knowledgeable gun advocate under direct threat and in fear of their life to take and defies common sense in my opinion.

Did a bullet from one of GK's guns kill C-B?

That's what needs to be proved or disproved.

It doesn't matter who was reckless as a matter of law unless the recklessness is proven to be a/the proximate cause of C-B's death.

Both GK & C-B may be proven to have acted recklessly, albeit in different ways. Or just one of them. Or neither of them.

Facts matter. Without eliminating reasonable doubt in any scenario, there can be no justice.

Right now, we can surmise on the basis of limited facts in evidence.

In September we shall see what the facts (more complete evidence) say or don't say.

I don't want GK to have another opportunity to kill someone if that's what happened. But what we know so far doesn't reach that level of proof IMHO.