AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #11

[legallee]

I saw on NG last night that EJ has now been sentenced to 34 years in jail. (I barely had time to read what it said because they quickly took it off). It had her picture besides all the information.

Does anybody know what it said?

huh? sentenced? you can't be sentenced without a trial, so something isn't right about that

 

[STEADFAST]

I am envious of those that cling to the hope that this child is still alive. I wish I could feel the same. I fear that Gabriel was killed by his mother. I hope I am wrong and would be happy to eat my words.

I can't help but fast forward my mind to a trial and that age old phrase, "no body, no case." If the poor child is no longer with us, EJ has traversed hundreds and hundreds of miles. She could have disposed of a body anywhere. The odds of finding him? Slim I would say.

Then you would have EJ just saying over and over again, "I gave him to a couple." The Smith's would make murky testimony that would confuse a jury. And in the end a defense attorney would claim that no one can know for sure that the mother killed her child. And EJ would be convicted of much lesser crimes.

I blame Casey Anthony and her family for this dynamic. Make up an odd story, stick to it and have others help you cloud the facts. She'll pay in the end, but the lesson her case brings to society is downright frightening. This is why I think it is hugely important to prosecute both the Anthony's and the Smith's to send a message. "Impede an investigation at your peril." If not, others are encouraged to mimic this odd and scary behavior.

Anyway, I know it is premature to think like this but I think I have become a cynic. Again, I admire those who stand fast to his being alive and hope you are right and I am wrong.

Thanks again for letting me participate on this forum. My own opinion of course. Thanks for listening. Be well. (BBM)

This tactic has been used many times -- the Natalee Holloway case comes to mind, and Drew Peterson and so on. I also believe that EJ killed Gabriel but hope, hope, hope I'm wrong.

 

[Dave AHFB]

I saw on NG last night that EJ has now been sentenced to 34 years in jail. (I barely had time to read what it said because they quickly took it off). It had her picture besides all the information.

Does anybody know what it said?

Too funny, I had no idea that the system made such a dramatic change.

 

[Baznme]

I am envious of those that cling to the hope that this child is still alive. I wish I could feel the same. I fear that Gabriel was killed by his mother. I hope I am wrong and would be happy to eat my words.

I can't help but fast forward my mind to a trial and that age old phrase, "no body, no case." If the poor child is no longer with us, EJ has traversed hundreds and hundreds of miles. She could have disposed of a body anywhere. The odds of finding him? Slim I would say.

Then you would have EJ just saying over and over again, "I gave him to a couple." The Smith's would make murky testimony that would confuse a jury. And in the end a defense attorney would claim that no one can know for sure that the mother killed her child. And EJ would be convicted of much lesser crimes.

I blame Casey Anthony and her family for this dynamic. Make up an odd story, stick to it and have others help you cloud the facts. She'll pay in the end, but the lesson her case brings to society is downright frightening. This is why I think it is hugely important to prosecute both the Anthony's and the Smith's to send a message. "Impede an investigation at your peril." If not, others are encouraged to mimic this odd and scary behavior.

Anyway, I know it is premature to think like this but I think I have become a cynic. Again, I admire those who stand fast to his being alive and hope you are right and I am wrong.

Thanks again for letting me participate on this forum. My own opinion of course. Thanks for listening. Be well.

I agree with your analogy of this case as being a copycat crime in many ways and that those that impede an investigation should be prosecuted as well but I feel LE knows more than we do and we need to hold out hope that if EJ did carry little Gabriel ALL THOSE MILES, it wasn't to kill him.

 

[trudysplace]

I am envious of those that cling to the hope that this child is still alive. I wish I could feel the same. I fear that Gabriel was killed by his mother. I hope I am wrong and would be happy to eat my words.

I can't help but fast forward my mind to a trial and that age old phrase, "no body, no case." If the poor child is no longer with us, EJ has traversed hundreds and hundreds of miles. She could have disposed of a body anywhere. The odds of finding him? Slim I would say.

Then you would have EJ just saying over and over again, "I gave him to a couple." The Smith's would make murky testimony that would confuse a jury. And in the end a defense attorney would claim that no one can know for sure that the mother killed her child. And EJ would be convicted of much lesser crimes.

I blame Casey Anthony and her family for this dynamic. Make up an odd story, stick to it and have others help you cloud the facts. She'll pay in the end, but the lesson her case brings to society is downright frightening. This is why I think it is hugely important to prosecute both the Anthony's and the Smith's to send a message. "Impede an investigation at your peril." If not, others are encouraged to mimic this odd and scary behavior.

Anyway, I know it is premature to think like this but I think I have become a cynic. Again, I admire those who stand fast to his being alive and hope you are right and I am wrong.

Thanks again for letting me participate on this forum. My own opinion of course. Thanks for listening. Be well.

Although disheartening, your posting is the most logical and downright honest posting anyone has written. Thank you.

 

[BeanE]

Good morning, friends. I posted this yesterday morning, have made a few changes, and am re-posting. This version is a look only at the possibilities of what Elizabeth may have done with Gabriel, without Tammi's knowledge or involvement.

1- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone who she coincidentally happened to run into:
1.a- in Tempe
1.b- between Tempe and San Antonio
1.c- in San Antonio

2- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone. Eliz sought out Someone:
2.a- Eliz may have advertised on Craigslist, and Someone contacted her.
2.b- Eliz may have answered Someone's ad on Craiglist.
2.c- Eliz may have advertised online somewhere other than Craigslist.
2.d- Eliz may have answered an ad somewhere other than Craigslist.
2.e- Eliz may have known someone for a period of time who was willing to take Gabriel.

Eliz could have found Someone
- while she was in Tempe, prior to Dec 8
- while she was in Tempe, from Dec 8 to Dec 18
- while she was on the road, Dec 18 to Dec 22
- after she got to San Antonio

Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone:
- selling him, either directly to Someone, or for Someone to sell Gabriel to Someone Else
- giving him for a legal or illegal adoption
- giving him to be in turn given to Someone Else, with or without Eliz's knowledge

- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone to hold/hide to hurt Logan, with the intent that Gabriel would be returned, at a specified or unspecified time.

- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone to hold/hide until such time as someone could 'adopt' him.

Who Has Gabriel? Looking at the type of person who would take or receive a baby, may give us some clues to avenues to explore.
Someone or Someone Else is a person who may:
- want to 'adopt' a child to live with them as a family. May think it can be a legal adoption, or may know it can not be a legal adoption.
- be a pedophile
- be a child trafficker
- be a child pimp (I don't know what these people are called)
- a friend or acquantance of Eliz's, a former teacher, counselor, co-worker, mentor, drug dealer?, pimp?

- Eliz harmed Gabriel. This would have to have been on Dec 26 after the pics were taken, or Dec 27 before Eliz got on the bus. Need to research the most likely types of places she may have put him, and the candidate places in and around San Antonio. If TES is called in, we could provide them with this list of places.

Just some thoughts/ideas in hopes of finding Gabriel. I think the more feasible angles we explore, the more chance there is of finding him. A lot of great and helpful work has been done on the angles that involve Tammi. All I'm saying is, what if Tammi doesn't know what happened to him? This has been weighing heavily on my mind.

FWIW

 

[iluvmua]

I think what I meant to say was the EJ now has been charged with 4 felonys that add up to 34 years in jail. (unless NG is wrong).

 

[trudysplace]

Good morning, friends. I posted this yesterday morning, have made a few changes, and am re-posting. This version is a look only at the possibilities of what Elizabeth may have done with Gabriel, without Tammi's knowledge or involvement.

1- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone who she coincidentally happened to run into:
1.a- in Tempe
1.b- between Tempe and San Antonio
1.c- in San Antonio

2- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone. Eliz sought out Someone:
2.a- Eliz may have advertised on Craigslist, and Someone contacted her.
2.b- Eliz may have answered Someone's ad on Craiglist.
2.c- Eliz may have advertised online somewhere other than Craigslist.
2.d- Eliz may have answered an ad somewhere other than Craigslist.
2.e- Eliz may have known someone for a period of time who was willing to take Gabriel.

Eliz could have found Someone
- while she was in Tempe, prior to Dec 8
- while she was in Tempe, from Dec 8 to Dec 18
- while she was on the road, Dec 18 to Dec 22
- after she got to San Antonio

Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone:
- selling him, either directly to Someone, or for Someone to sell Gabriel to Someone Else
- giving him for a legal or illegal adoption
- giving him to be in turn given to Someone Else, with or without Eliz's knowledge

- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone to hold/hide to hurt Logan, with the intent that Gabriel would be returned, at a specified or unspecified time.

- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone to hold/hide until such time as someone could 'adopt' him.

Who Has Gabriel? Looking at the type of person who would take or receive a baby, may give us some clues to avenues to explore.
Someone or Someone Else is a person who may:
- want to 'adopt' a child to live with them as a family. May think it can be a legal adoption, or may know it can not be a legal adoption.
- be a pedophile
- be a child trafficker
- be a child pimp (I don't know what these people are called)
- a friend or acquantance of Eliz's, a former teacher, counselor, co-worker, mentor, drug dealer?, pimp?

- Eliz harmed Gabriel. This would have to have been on Dec 26 after the pics were taken, or Dec 27 before Eliz got on the bus. Need to research the most likely types of places she may have put him, and the candidate places in and around San Antonio. If TES is called in, we could provide them with this list of places.

Just some thoughts/ideas in hopes of finding Gabriel. I think the more feasible angles we explore, the more chance there is of finding him. A lot of great and helpful work has been done on the angles that involve Tammi. All I'm saying is, what if Tammi doesn't know what happened to him? This has been weighing heavily on my mind.

FWIW

Thank you BeanE for putting my little mind back on track of the main focus here...WHERE IS BABY GABRIEL? Any new ideas WS members?

 

[BeanE]

Too funny, I had no idea that the system made such a dramatic change.

Introducing TurboJustice 2000! The all new and improved wheels of justice - turning faster than ever before!

 

[Dave AHFB]

Introducing TurboJustice 2000! The all new and improved wheels of justice - turning faster than ever before!

I like it, I really like it

 

[Baznme]

I think what I meant to say was the EJ now has been charged with 4 felonys that add up to 34 years in jail. (unless NG is wrong).

With possible perjury charges later on. She's going to be sitting in jail a very long time. Last I remember, Texas was one of the few states that does practice DP and do not shy away from it just because you are a woman.

I wonder if she were to confess and plead guilty, could that possibly reduce her sentence or get her in even deeper to possibly face a DP charge. This is what worries me about Gabriel being alive. If he is, why not spill the beans and take the minimum of consequences? Is he isn't, why not confess and possibly get a lesser sentence? Anyone with a legal mind that can shed some light on how her attorney might be advising her?

 

[Baznme]

Good morning, friends. I posted this yesterday morning, have made a few changes, and am re-posting. This version is a look only at the possibilities of what Elizabeth may have done with Gabriel, without Tammi's knowledge or involvement.

1- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone who she coincidentally happened to run into:
1.a- in Tempe
1.b- between Tempe and San Antonio
1.c- in San Antonio

2- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone. Eliz sought out Someone:
2.a- Eliz may have advertised on Craigslist, and Someone contacted her.
2.b- Eliz may have answered Someone's ad on Craiglist.
2.c- Eliz may have advertised online somewhere other than Craigslist.
2.d- Eliz may have answered an ad somewhere other than Craigslist.
2.e- Eliz may have known someone for a period of time who was willing to take Gabriel.

Eliz could have found Someone
- while she was in Tempe, prior to Dec 8
- while she was in Tempe, from Dec 8 to Dec 18
- while she was on the road, Dec 18 to Dec 22
- after she got to San Antonio

Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone:
- selling him, either directly to Someone, or for Someone to sell Gabriel to Someone Else
- giving him for a legal or illegal adoption
- giving him to be in turn given to Someone Else, with or without Eliz's knowledge

- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone to hold/hide to hurt Logan, with the intent that Gabriel would be returned, at a specified or unspecified time.

- Eliz gave Gabriel to Someone to hold/hide until such time as someone could 'adopt' him.

Who Has Gabriel? Looking at the type of person who would take or receive a baby, may give us some clues to avenues to explore.
Someone or Someone Else is a person who may:
- want to 'adopt' a child to live with them as a family. May think it can be a legal adoption, or may know it can not be a legal adoption.
- be a pedophile
- be a child trafficker
- be a child pimp (I don't know what these people are called)
- a friend or acquantance of Eliz's, a former teacher, counselor, co-worker, mentor, drug dealer?, pimp?

- Eliz harmed Gabriel. This would have to have been on Dec 26 after the pics were taken, or Dec 27 before Eliz got on the bus. Need to research the most likely types of places she may have put him, and the candidate places in and around San Antonio. If TES is called in, we could provide them with this list of places.

Just some thoughts/ideas in hopes of finding Gabriel. I think the more feasible angles we explore, the more chance there is of finding him. A lot of great and helpful work has been done on the angles that involve Tammi. All I'm saying is, what if Tammi doesn't know what happened to him? This has been weighing heavily on my mind.

FWIW

Somewhere in here IS the answer. Question is, which one?

 

[Baznme]

Do we have a timeline between the time Gabriel was last seen to the time EJ bought that bus ticket?

From what I can see, the baby was last seen on Dec. 26th, seen by whom? What time?
She parked her grandfather's car at the hotel around 11:30 or 11:45am and bought a bus ticket on Dec. 27th

 

[trudysplace]

Somewhere in here IS the answer. Question is, which one?

SA LE showed a photo of EJ's confiscated digital camera. They DID NOT, however, mention her new cell phone. Nor have they mentioned any investigation into the phone records from the hotel rooms. If there is a couple to whom EJ may have passed GJ to, EJ had to have made contact with that couple. It did not HAVE to be through a computer.

You are most likely right that we DO have the answer. Or, perhaps, SA police are still building their case. At any rate, time is running out to find Gabriel. HELP!

 

[mysticrose]

I don't really have any new ideas as to what happened here;

There may have been something in the works being set up for EJ in regards to change of jurisdiction for papers and she was headed somewhere else when she got the call from TS that they legally could not get that changed and she needed to head back to AZ.
She panicked decided to stay in SA, TX since where she was headed did not pan out and either found a couple off of Craiglist to give baby Gabe to or posted an add herself.
I think in part that is why we see all these pictures of Gabe, to send them via e-mail to someone showing interest....She probally does not know much about these people would be my guess if in fact this is what happened.

She is vindictive and wanted to hurt Logan imo due to the fact she knew she was going to lose custody (he ruined my life). I think EJ has a very large ego and that would hurt terribly.

I want to believe he is with somebody and safe but I find it very disheartening that she has not cooperated with LE to find him. To me that speaks volumes in itself that perhaps she has done the unspeakable.. I can only hope the reason she hasn't is because she is a spoiled brat in need of a good whupin and talking to to come clean.
If she chooses to stay silent I hope her Lawyer lets her know that it is possible she is looking at murder charges in relation to this case just based on the fact they can't produce the baby, she is not talking and the ugly text message she sent to Logan regardless if she sent one to TS refuting the claim she killed her own child....

 

[panthera]

Thank you BeanE for putting my little mind back on track of the main focus here...WHERE IS BABY GABRIEL? Any new ideas WS members?

I can't help but think if EJ did hand Gabriel off to someone that TS had a hand in it. Craigslist or not, I just can't get my mind around her doing it all by herself, especially with the contact she's had with TS afterward. If TS really doesn't know where Gabriel is now, I at least believe she helped set it up. MOO

 

[panthera]

With possible perjury charges later on. She's going to be sitting in jail a very long time. Last I remember, Texas was one of the few states that does practice DP and do not shy away from it just because you are a woman.

I wonder if she were to confess and plead guilty, could that possibly reduce her sentence or get her in even deeper to possibly face a DP charge. This is what worries me about Gabriel being alive. If he is, why not spill the beans and take the minimum of consequences? Is he isn't, why not confess and possibly get a lesser sentence? Anyone with a legal mind that can shed some light on how her attorney might be advising her?

I'd like to know what the possible charges are she could face if she did hand him off in Texas in an illegal adoption (with false paperwork and all)?

 

[Baznme]

I don't really have any new ideas as to what happened here;

There may have been something in the works being set up for EJ in regards to change of jurisdiction for papers and she was headed somewhere else when she got the call from TS that they legally could not get that changed and she needed to head back to AZ.
She panicked decided to stay in SA, TX since where she was headed did not pan out and either found a couple off of Craiglist to give baby Gabe to or posted an add herself.
I think in part that is why we see all these pictures of Gabe, to send them via e-mail to someone showing interest....She probally does not know much about these people would be my guess if in fact this is what happened.

She is vindictive and wanted to hurt Logan imo due to the fact she knew she was going to lose custody (he ruined my life). I think EJ has a very large ego and that would hurt terribly.

I want to believe he is with somebody and safe but I find it very disheartening that she has not cooperated with LE to find him. To me that speaks volumes in itself that perhaps she has done the unspeakable.. I can only hope the reason she hasn't is because she is a spoiled brat in need of a good whupin and talking to to come clean.
If she chooses to stay silent I hope her Lawyer lets her know that it is possible she is looking at murder charges in relation to this case just based on the fact they can't produce the baby, she is not talking and the ugly text message she sent to Logan regardless if she sent one to TS refuting the claim she killed her own child....

I agree with you on most of your post. She made an appt. with someone and the most pressing matter on her mind was either finding a place to put the baby or getting a job, because she was now stuck in SA with diminishing funds. I believe the 1st option to be true. The pictures were taken and sent and then the pickup occurred I believe on the 26th. What did she do with the baby items she had along. Threw them in the dumpster? Sent them with Gabriel? What time did she check out of the hotel she was at? Was that on video? I know a million questions but if he's even got a chance at still being alive and in the SA area, I think it's time to start checking videos of who's at Walmart buying diapers and formula.

 

[katiemadonna]

Do we have a timeline between the time Gabriel was last seen to the time EJ bought that bus ticket?

From what I can see, the baby was last seen on Dec. 26th, seen by whom? What time?
She parked her grandfather's car at the hotel around 11:30 or 11:45am and bought a bus ticket on Dec. 27th

Been trying to keep it all straight...not sure this is complete

Dec. 11: The father, Logan McQueary, files a petition for full custody of his son, Gabriel.

Dec. 11-17: Elizabeth sold her dogs, a laptop and cashed an unemployment check. She gave away clothes belonging to Gabriel and stored the crib in the shed.

Dec. 17: Elizabeth and Logan granted joint custody

Dec. 18: Gabriel's mother, Elizabeth Johnson, leaves Tempe, Ariz.

Dec. 20: Johnson arrives in San Antonio.

Dec. 23: Tammi Smith wrote on her Facebook about Elizabeth finding and underground system to help her.

Dec. 26: Last known sighting of Gabriel.

Dec. 26: Tammi Smith had a friend in Nashville call Elizabeth and plea for her to return to AZ. Tammi's attorney also called Elizabeth on this same day, as per Tammi Smith on the NG show.

Dec. 26: Tammi Smith stated this was the first she had heard of any Domestic Violence assistance from Elizabeth via cell phone call.

Dec. 27: Logan McQueary recieves text msg from EJ saying she had killed Gabriel

Dec. 27: Johnson leaves San Antonio. The search for Gabriel begins after his father receives text messages in which the mother claimed she killed the boy.

Dec. 28: Date the custodial hearing was to be held.

Dec. 30: Johnson arrested in Miami Beach, Fla.

Jan. 5: Johnson's missing car is found parked at a San Antonio motel.

Jan. 7: Police announce 'persons of interest' in boy's disappearance.

Jan. 10: Elizabeth Johnson extradited from Florida & now in Maricopa County jail on 3 felony charges: (1) kidnapping, (2) child abuse, (3) custodial interference.

Jan. 12: Reward (5K) offered by Crimestoppers for tips leading to find Gabriel.

Jan. 13: Tammi Smith visited EJ in jail today and was assured by Johnson that Gabriel is alive and she did hand him over to a couple she met in San Antonio. EJ asking police to do a composite sketch of the couple and also asking for FBI participation.

January 14: Tammi Smith was interviewed by LE

January 14: Johnson was indicted by a grand jury charges of kidnapping, child abuse, custodial interference, and conspiracy to commit custodial interference.

January 14 A baby-sitter came forward on Wednesday saying she watched Gabriel for about two hours while Elizabeth left the hotel. The woman says Gabriel appeared dirty and lethargic, "He had stains around his mouth and dried boogers around his nose," said Alisa.

January 14: Search warrants were issued for the Smith's home, computers, files, etc. A search was conducted for several hours ending around 12:30 AM. Jack Smith said police took his laptop computer and made a copy of his business computer's hard drive. He said they also took brochures they had for a foster agency. The Smiths say they hired an attorney.

January 15: Police released several photos of Gabriel found on Elizabeth's cell phone taken inside the hotel room in San Antonio.

January 15: Elizabeth's grandfather, Robert Johnson stated he believes Elizabeth gave away the baby and knows how to contact the couple.

 

[Blue Ridge]

SA LE showed a photo of EJ's confiscated digital camera. They DID NOT, however, mention her new cell phone. Nor have they mentioned any investigation into the phone records from the hotel rooms. If there is a couple to whom EJ may have passed GJ to, EJ had to have made contact with that couple. It did not HAVE to be through a computer.

You are most likely right that we DO have the answer. Or, perhaps, SA police are still building their case. At any rate, time is running out to find Gabriel. HELP!

Just praying that LE does have a lot more info about EJ's communications than they are putting out there at this time. If there IS an adoptive person or couple out there somewhere, they wouldn't put out anything that would alert them (and perhaps jeopardize Gabriel's life) while they track it down. My heart breaks all over again every time I look at those hotel room pictures of baby Gabriel. It is just beyond me that EJ didn't love him and want him and cherish him :-(