AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #13

[BeanE]

Police: 'Great concern' over missing baby
East Valley Tribune
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

January 19, 2010 - 7:18AM

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/149663

Tempe police Lt. Mike Horn appeared on morning news shows Tuesday

See my earlier posts today for videos from the Today Show and the Early Show. Includes yesterdays presser with Logan and interviews with LE's Lt. Horn

 

[Salem]

I've added my thoughts in green, fwiw ~

I have not caught up in this thread -- just reading and wishing we had a defense lawyer on this thread

Do bio-moms really get 20 years for kidnapping their own babies? I think it depends on the circumstances. I would say, in general, they do not. But in this case, the state may push for severe consequences if they do not locate Baby Gabe.

Could her lawyers have already discussed the case with the prosecutor, or is that premature? Yes! Definitely. They could have started talking to the prosecutor even before they talked to their client, but I doubt that they did. They could be in negotiations now. She was assigned a PD at the beginning of last week. My thoughts are that the attorney that was assigned is working on becoming familiar with the case, while wrapping up any loose ends on his/her desk, because if they are smart, they will realize this case is going to take up quite a bit of their time.

I ask because it seems that it might be a move to try to get prosecutors to offer EJ something for revealing information that may lead to Gabriel -- is this a possibility? If she gives them info that leads to Gabriel, they promise her a lesser charge? If EJ gives information on the location of Gabriel, and he is ALIVE, she would probably do very little time in jail. I am sure her attorney is working on this. However, if EJ really is like KC, EJ may be saying SHE WILL NOT AGREE TO A PLEA DEAL. If that is case, well, then I wouldn't have much hope for Gabe The client, EJ in this case, MUST AGREE to any actions her attorney takes. The attorney cannot move on her behalf without her consent.

However, LE might be slowing this process down, because they have not finished charging her. If EJ doesn't talk, and LE can not find Gabriel, I feel pretty certain EJ will be charged with murder. The prosecutor may be holding out final charges until they get further word from LE on Gabriel's whereabouts.

Could LE be leading the press to believe that the indicators are not as strong that Gabriel is alive and well hoping it will get back to EJ, or others who might now be involved in aid and abetting in more serious charges? I don't think so. EJ is in jail and is cut off from all that is happening in the real world. LE can tell her whatever they want and she wouldn't know the difference. AND for now, I think LE likes it that way. EJ will be getting all her info from her attorney, visitors and LE.

LE may be working a strategy as far as others are concerned. If something doesn't break soon, I do think they will charge EJ with murder. Maybe the prosecutor will take that back to the grand jury?

IDK thinking out loud after a long day is probably not a good idea --

Did Logan really just see these pics of Gabe for the first time at the same time as we did? I have not watched the video yet, but I would think Logan saw the pictures fairly soon after they were discovered. I would think LE would have wanted Logan's input?

So many questions--

I still hold out hope for Gabriel -- LE flipflopped so quickly in the last couple of days -- from dual investigations to not as strong of indicators -- and on a holiday weekend -- seems strange to me


Back to reading

Also, I don't feel like LE flipflopped. They have been choosing their wording very carefully all along. LE said there were "indicators" that let them hope Gabe was alive, but LE never said they really believed he was still alive. I think some of us discussed the way LE was saying things and what it might mean back in Thread 9 or 10? Not sure. I do agree though, that now it does seem as if LE is coming out stronger on the side that EJ may have done what she said she did.

I'm holding out hope with you Prof! I'm praying that Baby Gabe is still with us and that he will be found. It is possible.

Salem

 

[BeanE]

New article, but I don't see any new info:

Search Still On for Baby Gabriel
Police Say They're "Optimistic" But "Wrestling" with Idea that Mother May Have Killed Her 8-Month-Old Child

CBS News

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/19/earlyshow/main6115363.shtml

 

[kappy50]

The bottle looks exactly like infants Tylenol to me EXCEPT the label. I've used both the store brand and Tylenol brand, and that label doesn't look like either one to me. The bottle size and squeeze dropper lid are right on. But the label in Gabe's pics looks like a prescription label to me.

There isn't a Benadryl made for infants, only for children. Yes, infants CAN take Benadryl. My Ped. told me to give my son a TINY bit when he was projectile vomiting and they were doing an abdominal ultrasound to rule out Pyloric Stenosis. She said there is something in Benadryl that helps settle the tummy. A small amount can also be given to them for an allergic reaction. (Please note that you should never give it to a baby without talking to a Dr. first, I'm only speaking from my own experience). But the Benadryl bottle is much bigger and made of see through-ish brown tinted plastic.

Also I wanted to weigh in that I'm not particularly concerned about Gabe holding that bottle. My son likes to hold things like that sometimes. I'm a bit finicky, so I won't let him hold Tylenol or whatever, but he likes to hold the Desitin tube while I change his diaper.
I'm more concerned about the picture where he's sucking on what looks like a medicine dispenser type pacifier. Kind of a little cup. If that's Tylenol in that, it would be WAY too much. I can't figure out what else it might be. It doesn't look like normal juice that you would give a baby, maybe Pedialyte, but that would be such a small amount, I don't see the point.

I don't believe it's a medicine dispenser. I believe its one of those "Sassy Teething Feeders'. I have one of my grandson's and compared it to the picture and they are identical in colors, although they do come in several colors. While teething, we used it for ice for him to suck on. Plus fruit as well, because the actual pacifier side if you will, is mesh.

 

[not_my_kids]

Also, why the pics of Gabriel with the bottle and cup? It does seem deliberate, but also may be a "red herring"? Is Elizabeth on any medication I wonder?

It has been reported, by her grandfather I think, that EJ was on medication for PostPartum Depression, but had stopped taking it shortly before leaving with Gabe.

 

[mysticrose]

I still believe what Gabriel has in his hand is infant Tylenol, looks like they have changed the label since I have used it, see the yellow on this label.

 

[smart blonde]

Here is a site explaining overdose of infants Tylenol;

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/acetaminophen/HO00002

Thank you, mysticrose, for the informational link above...

Some highlights:

Acetaminophen (Tylenol) & Children: Why dosage matters

* An overdose is serious, and "can happen easier than you might think".

* Many ways that on overdose can occur, include if parent is in a hurry, and if parent decides more is better- for instance if the parent is not satisfied with the performance of the recommended dosage, she might increase the dosage and cause accidental overdose.

* Another common way for overdose to happen, the child mistakes the medicine for juice or candy- often happens when adult leaves the bottle open or accessible to the child, after giving recommended dosage.

* How much is too much varies depending on child's age and weight.

* Overdoses are often fatal for the child.

 

[captdj]

There are traffic cams all over the place in the Huebner/I-10 area. I live near Babcock & Prue, which is near Laureate. There are cameras all around the shopping centers, too.

And Driving a 1995 Delta 88 would stick out ..... wonder if LE has contacted all businesses in that area to look over their video tapes for 12/26 and 12/27... and the red camera light on Fredricburg, etc...

Does LE have the man power of do this....it would be like Ghost Hunters International sitting for hours hoping for a glimps of her car.....

 

[not_my_kids]

And Driving a 1995 Delta 88 would stick out ..... wonder if LE has contacted all businesses in that area to look over their video tapes for 12/26 and 12/27... and the red camera light on Fredricburg, etc...

Does LE have the man power of do this....it would be like Ghost Hunters International sitting for hours hoping for a glimps of her car.....

With four agencies, including the FBI, I am sure they could and have reviewed all available footage from the areas.
They may even have said that in one of the interviews, but I can't remember if it came from LE or from one of Nancy's talking heads.

 

[Ives]

And Driving a 1995 Delta 88 would stick out ..... wonder if LE has contacted all businesses in that area to look over their video tapes for 12/26 and 12/27... and the red camera light on Fredricburg, etc...

Does LE have the man power of do this....it would be like Ghost Hunters International sitting for hours hoping for a glimps of her car.....

Honestly, I doubt a Delta 88 would stick out so much, I have seen alot of those cars, San antonio is very big in the "car junking" business, so plenty of parts around to keep these cars running, and there are a ton of older cars still on the roads here you may know this,, but just pointing it out. also, most that I do see, are white. Maybe just the populer color at the time? My 2 cents. and MOO

It is very easy to get rid of cars without titles here also, I really surprised that the Car thefts are not too bad here. I am also surprised that the motel 6 did not call the wrecker service to pick up that car before it was found! seriously!

also, I believe that Mlsmom pointed out that alot of these cameras do not even work(wasted tax dollars:waitasec BUT the one at Fredicksburg, might be one that is in balcones Heights, and therefore works.

 

[mamaeb]

I was just searching on Craigslist, and I noticed that no missing child notice has been posted for Gabriel in San Antonio since Jan 3.

Then I was looking at all the cities for TX, and all the states, and all the cities within them, and all the different countries, and thinking what a great way it would be to get the word out about missing children.

It would be great if they'd team with NCMEC and Amber Alert and blast the missing children posters throughout their website.

You can email craig he is really good about writing back and reading email rather quickly.

can I post that email here?

 

[NewMommy09]

I don't believe it's a medicine dispenser. I believe its one of those "Sassy Teething Feeders'. I have one of my grandson's and compared it to the picture and they are identical in colors, although they do come in several colors. While teething, we used it for ice for him to suck on. Plus fruit as well, because the actual pacifier side if you will, is mesh.

Thanks Kappy, I haven't seen one before. Your post also reminded me that I had wanted to post that at 8 months Gabriel has no teeth yet. He's likely experiencing teething symptoms. It wouldn't be unusual for her to give Gabe some Tylenol if he's in pain or uncomfortable. Personally, I try to avoid Tylenol unless really necessary. For teething, I give my son Hylands all natural teething tablets and they seem to work better for him than Tylenol anyway. I'm not defending EJ here, but I'm not sure I believe EJ purposely drugged him up on Tylenol. If she really wanted to drug him up, there are easier ways to do that. JMO, of course.

 

[mamaeb]

Do you think EJ could have given Gabriel to her friend on myspace? She is the 12th comment on EJ's myspace. Her name begins with an "A". On A's page there are congratulations re: the baby and when is the shower. I have looked for other posts as far as the pregnancy in earlier posts but can not find anything. Also A posted on 12/14 that she was exicited about her 3rd child and hoped it was a boy.

If you look at her husbands page (top friend) he has a picture of the ultrasound and even shows it's a boy by writing (dez nutz) so she is pregnant

 

[suzyq211]

I apologize if this was posted already!!! BBM

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01/14/crimesider/entry6096469.shtml

CNN's Nancy Grace is reporting that a hotel clerk at a San Antonio hotel where Elizabeth Johnson allegedly stayed told police that she checked in with a fake Texas driver's license and was carrying an infant car seat, but kept it pointed away from the clerk so they couldn’t see if there was a baby.

Court documents have also revealed that the second man Elizabeth Johnson named as the possible father of Gabriel Johnson, Craig Cherry, is actually the cousin of Tammi Smith, the woman who Elizabeth claims wanted to adopt little Gabriel

 

[W8nC]

I think she told her grandfather she couldn't say anything because she's holding out for a good deal, or a better deal than what she's been offered. HE says she's not telling LE anything because it wouldnt make any difference, kidnapping is kidnapping and that's 20 years. Could we translate that to mean they haven't offered her a sentence of anything less than 20 years, even if she cooperates? Rather than thinking she has nothing to offer THEM, we could read it to mean they haven't offered HER anything she's ready to accept.

Earlier, when she WAS talking, to TPS and that reporter, she said Gabriel was alive, that she had not killed him. Now she's not talking, but that doesn't mean the story has changed, only that she's not willing to deal. Her lawyer told her not to talk, maybe because the offer isn't the best one he/she thinks EJ can get.

I'm not ready to give up hope for Gabriel. I just don't feel that anything terrible, or unalterable, has happened to him. JMO.

Also, maybe LE is saying they ar leaning more towards this being a murder investigation in order to make whoever has him let their guard down. If I have a child illegally but LE is looking for a body, and not a child, then I don't have to be as careful hiding him. I might slip up.

Also, I still believe the photos are just a blink and nothing worse. I had pics of my kids and grandkids that looked like that. I would have sworn I never saw them look that way, but the camera catches a split second that our eyes can't catch. And in small children, it's not uncommon to catch their eyes slightly out of sync, as in one closed a little more than, or quicker than, the other. Their little bodies aren't as developed, things like both eyes blinking exactly in sync are still being worked out, so to speak. They also blink slower when a little sleepy.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

"I've never seen him look like that," his father, Logan McQueary, said.

"I saw that picture and I just started crying. Even when he was tired, he never looked like that."

Okay, so that puts to rest teething, allergies, cold, sick, flashes from cameras, sleepy, etc, because Gabriel's father, who knows him better than anyoneelse, now states that he has never seen Gabriel look like that.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/01/19/20100119baby0119.html

I don't personally feel it does (puts to rest...). Babies change SO much at that age. My husband reminded me of something I had forgotten. When our youngest was about 7 months old, he (hubby) had to go out of town for six weeks for his job, this is before web cams and such, he went six weeks without seeing our baby. He said when he came back it was almost like we had a different child! The baby changed so much. And truly, looking back at photos, that is how it seems.

If LM has never seen Gabriel teething, maybe he really hasn't seen him looking like that, and maybe that is all that was going on with Gabriel.

I still have hope Gabriel is alive and well.

 

[Kat101]

ok so i just got a chance to look at the new pics of gabriel...i dont know if this has been mentioned but did u notice the pics on the side table? it looks like it could be of her and her twin brother when they were younger and maybe her mom.that to me shows that she might hold some family values still. i mean when i go out of town i dont take my family photos with me.maybe she as ready to leave and never come back.

i do believe she thought she was doing the right thing for her child by giving him to a family that would take care of him the way she never was even though it was illegal.as parents we all want our children to have better than what we did.maybe this to her was the only thing she could offer him and she knew that.we dont know her relationship with LM but you can be a good father but not a good husband/boyfriend.she could have mistaken the way he treated her was the way he would treat his child.im in no way putting LM down just stating facts.we have to start think what SHE thinks and would do to figure this out.everyone thinks differently and no minds are alike.

 

[time]

I think she told her grandfather she couldn't say anything because she's holding out for a good deal, or a better deal than what she's been offered. HE says she's not telling LE anything because it wouldnt make any difference, kidnapping is kidnapping and that's 20 years. Could we translate that to mean they haven't offered her a sentence of anything less than 20 years, even if she cooperates? Rather than thinking she has nothing to offer THEM, we could read it to mean they haven't offered HER anything she's ready to accept.

Earlier, when she WAS talking, to TPS and that reporter, she said Gabriel was alive, that she had not killed him. Now she's not talking, but that doesn't mean the story has changed, only that she's not willing to deal. Her lawyer told her not to talk, maybe because the offer isn't the best one he/she thinks EJ can get.

I'm not ready to give up hope for Gabriel. I just don't feel that anything terrible, or unalterable, has happened to him. JMO.

Also, maybe LE is saying they ar leaning more towards this being a murder investigation in order to make whoever has him let their guard down. If I have a child illegally but LE is looking for a body, and not a child, then I don't have to be as careful hiding him. I might slip up.

Also, I still believe the photos are just a blink and nothing worse. I had pics of my kids and grandkids that looked like that. I would have sworn I never saw them look that way, but the camera catches a split second that our eyes can't catch. And in small children, it's not uncommon to catch their eyes slightly out of sync, as in one closed a little more than, or quicker than, the other. Their little bodies aren't as developed, things like both eyes blinking exactly in sync are still being worked out, so to speak. They also blink slower when a little sleepy.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I agree with what you are saying and I am not ready to read too much into some of the news in the last day, especially regarding what Elizabeth said to grandpa. This article presents it a bit differently as I posted last night:

Earlier Monday, Elizabeth Johnson's grandfather visited her in jail and they talked for about 20 minutes. He says he encouraged her to tell the truth, but she wouldn't open up.

"She's prepared to stay strong in her conviction that she did the right thing and the baby's in good hands," said Robert Johnson.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/tempe/fears-of-baby-gabriel's-death-mount-1-18-2010

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

I think we have to remember that LE had these photos long before they hit the news and any of us saw them. I'm pretty sure LE has drawn it's conclusion from them.
They state only the last two pics were timestamped a specific date. I'm sure there are more pics they retrieved from Elizabeths camera that have not been released <yet>

Also, is that a Tylenol bottle a prescription bottle or just over the counter?
I'd think if she wanted to drug and/or silent him, she would have used something much stronger other than infant tylenol drops. JMO

Perhaps there were pictures on her camera that showed Gabriel being 'blue' however I don't think he'd fit into the tiny diaperbag we saw sitting on the shelf in the hotelroom.
Perhaps there was another diaperbag?

If Elizabeth cared enough to take Gabriel to the doctors to obtain medicine, then she cared enough not to kill him. I don't see the point.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Maybe all their leads dried up? I would think with computer forensics, cell phone records and pings, video surrveillence and people calling it that they have gone through all the steps they can take. Makes me worry too. She had to contact the adoptive parents somehow. Maybe a different cell phone no one knows about? Those are easy to get and discard. I just don't think she is so smart as to hide all her tracks. Like I said before, she got busted in FL pretty quick so she didn't know not to sign onto her My Space (I think that is how they got her). Maybe they are just at a dead end.

This reminds me of something. Do we know if LE has EJ's computer? Do I remember correctly reading somewhere that she sold this on Craig's List?