AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #13

[BeanE]

If Gabriel died in that hotel room by any means I would have to believe there would be some forensics there and I certainly hope the room was either sealed or thoroughly checked by now. But you are right that it could have been somewhere else. That's why trying to trace her movements from the time of that photo until the time of that Motel 6 surveillance video are crucial.

I wish we knew positively which Homegate Suites she was staying at because if she had to drive between the two hotels, it is possible that Gabriel was sleeping in the car seat when she arrived at the Quality Inn so she just carried him in that way. If they were right next door to each other she would have just carried him over IMO.

Has anyone compared outside shots of the hotels in news videos to outside shots of the hotels on the hotel websites do you know, Kamille?

I'm trying to think of how to word descriptions of a few ways you could kill a baby in a hotel room and leave nothing behind, but really, I'm too upset, and so is everyone else. I have to put this conversation on hold right now. I'm sorry, Kamille. I don't think we're ready for it yet, or need it yet, and personally, I can't let my mind go too far there yet.

 

[TearsforCaylee]

I found something interesting on a social networking site regarding a friend of EJ's commenting about EJ's new life (December 28th) and asking her to tell her more about it. Can I comment further about it here or will that get me in trouble?

 

[Pondering Mind]

can you imagine being Logan? I can't. I would probably cry and think the worst also.

I can't..not in a million years. I've lost a child (he was actually about Gabe's age), but I can not imagine being in his shoes, no. I believe the 'not knowing' would be worse than anything to be honest. Usually a parent won't think the worse until it's proven to them. That's why it scares me that he believes EJ to absolutely be capable of harming Gabe...and seems to be losing hope. Sadly, I bet he has a pretty good idea of whether EJ was telling him the truth on that text msg...... jmo tho

 

[mum]

I found something interesting on a social networking site regarding a friend of EJ's commenting about EJ's new life (December 28th) and asking her to tell her more about it. Can I comment further about it here or will that get me in trouble?

I have often wondered about that same post myself.

 

[SallyManda]

I can't..not in a million years. I've lost a child (he was actually about Gabe's age), but I can not imagine being in his shoes, no. I believe the 'not knowing' would be worse than anything to be honest. Usually a parent won't think the worse until it's proven to them. That's why it scares me that he believes EJ to absolutely be capable of harming Gabe...and seems to be losing hope. Sadly, I bet he has a pretty good idea of whether EJ was telling him the truth on that text msg...... jmo tho

I agree..I feel awful for him..I just don't know how he could leave him with her if he thought she really WAS capable of doing that..I'd kidnap my son before I left him with someone who could hurt him

 

[BeanE]

Well, I agree I think s he knows more. I think that although she didn't directly tell them, there are the conversations on tape with Tammi and the emails and such. You made me think, I guess this is where the 'couple' thing came from ? At any rate, I agree, she probably hasn't told them any more. My only point is that it is still possible she can't give any more info that will directly point to who Gabriel was handed off to (if he was). Or, she might have some vague physical descriptions of a person or a couple (say she met them very briefly and didn't ever even see their/his/her car). The person or couple could have been disguised also - I know that sounds weird, but if I were doing an illegal adoption, I would certainly do this. I don't even know if a description is of much worth, especially at this point. If he is dead and she did it, then of course, she can tell them where he is.

I hope I am making sense... maybe I just want to think he is alive too much. If he is not with us any more, then where do we turn?

She could give a description, she could describe how she met them, she could convey everything they talked about, she could describe their clothing, she could convey any mannerisms they have, she could convey whatever they may have said about what city they live in, what kind of house they have, whether they have pets or a boat or a summer home or other children. I could go on and on. But... bottom line is, she has not told them everything she can. She has not told them *anything* she can.

Unless you think LE is lying when they say she has only asked for water and to go to the bathroom.

 

[cyberborg]

I can't..not in a million years. I've lost a child (he was actually about Gabe's age), but I can not imagine being in his shoes, no. I believe the 'not knowing' would be worse than anything to be honest. Usually a parent won't think the worse until it's proven to them. That's why it scares me that he believes EJ to absolutely be capable of harming Gabe...and seems to be losing hope. Sadly, I bet he has a pretty good idea of whether EJ was telling him the truth on that text msg...... jmo tho

Good point!!!

Logan has experienced many uncontrollable rages from EJ and so knows how far she would go to retaliate or hurt him. He knows whether EJ would do this and how far she would take it. So in his heart he knows whether this was true or not.

 

[trudysplace]

It's so incredibly odd to me that not one of the media outlets has reported his or name.

Have you by chance looked at the public defender's website to see if they might have something on how they are assigned? I'm happy to do it. Just didn't want to repeat it if you already have.

Fortunately, for you all, (as well as my best friends will tell you...I AM LONG LONG WINDED WITH A TEXAS ACCENT TO BOOT!!).

I have restrained myself I think in the past 6 days I became a member.

In answer to your question, the answer is yes and no. The Maricopa County Judicial Branch to the Public Identified is by: S E. The Judge is Benny. The case is CR-26... but then again my computer does not always go to the end of the page.

I have searched all attorneys in the Phoenix area and have now resorted to something stronger than coffee. But I doooo appreciaate you askkking!

 

[BeanE]

If he is not with us any more, then where do we turn?

Unless and until LE officially says Gabriel is not with us any more, by filing homicide charges, and announcing that they are beginning a recovery operation vs a rescue operation, then we keep looking for a live Gabriel.

We owe him that, because we are adults, and he is a defenseless baby who has been wronged, and is endangered. He needs us. And we will take a deep breath, and dry our tears or let them flow, and we will step up to the plate, and look for him, the best ways we know how.

And when and if LE tells us he is gone, then we will continue to look for him, so that he may be brought home for his daddy to lay him to rest with the love and dignity and respect he deserves.

I think that's why we're here, isn't it?

 

[b4e]

Unless and until LE officially says Gabriel is not with us any more, by filing homicide charges, and announcing that they are beginning a recovery operation vs a rescue operation, then we keep looking for a live Gabriel.

We owe him that, because we are adults, and he is a defenseless baby who has been wronged, and is endangered. He needs us. And we will take a deep breath, and dry our tears or let them flow, and we will step up to the plate, and look for him, the best ways we know how.

And when and if LE tells us he is gone, then we will continue to look for him, so that he may be brought home for his daddy to lay him to rest with the love and dignity and respect he deserves.

I think that's why we're here, isn't it?

BeanE, that was a beautiful post. Thank you.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Good point!!!

Logan has experienced many uncontrollable rages from EJ and so knows how far she would go to retaliate or hurt him. He knows whether EJ would do this and how far she would take it. So in his heart he knows whether this was true or not.

Does anyone know if Eliz ever hit or tried to harm Logan? I guessing I'm asking more out of curiousity. I know she tore up and trashed their apartment, but does she also have a history of striking people? Hitting the baby?

I remember reading about her chasing her father around with a plunger, but to be honest I have a hard time imagining a small child chasing an adult around. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I wonder what the whole story is there.

 

[Amster]

He also expressed worry about a photo taken of Gabriel while he was in Texas. In the photo, he appears drowsy and is holding a bottle of prescription medication. McQueary says Gabriel wasn't on any medication.

What Logan said in his presser today:

"When I saw that picture I started crying. Even when he is tired he never looked like that before," he said.

A babysitter recently came forward saying that Johnson asked her to give Gabriel the pills to "shut him up." McQueary says Johnson would complain often about Gabriel's crying.

"She didn't want to listen to him cry. She always told me to shut him up and put him in his crib and I just played with him," recalled McQueary.

At a press conference Monday, McQueary told FOX 10 that Johnson had a tendency to go into uncontrollable rages. He is certain she is capable of killing a baby,

Logan said this today?? OMG....breaks my heart...I too cried when I saw those pictures....I feel sick

 

[txsvicki]

I wonder if anyone has suggested for Logan to visit Elizabeth in jail. Maybe it would send her into a rage and she'd blurt out something useful. It seems to me that if she found a baby smuggling operation or help that there would be some trail online, on her phone, the motel phone, somewhere. Elizabeth planned to get rid of the baby and went to Texas with few of his things, but with plenty of tylenol. I wonder if she chose Texas since we have the reputation of insisting on having a body to charge murder. She planned to get away and disappear and has a pretty good story. A couple whom she doesn't know took the baby. The Smith's had already been set up as a family who could prove that she wanted to adopt her baby out. I find it hard to believe that she ever intended to adopt out Gabriel in the first place. With a shady illegal adoption where Logan could keep trying to get the baby back. Elizabeth didn't want him to even have his clothing and tv much less the baby he wanted to keep. If she couldn't force and control Logan into willingly adopting out the baby then I just can't see her doing anything where he might get him back while she sits in prison for kidnapping.

 

[Marigold]

Unless and until LE officially says Gabriel is not with us any more, by filing homicide charges, and announcing that they are beginning a recovery operation vs a rescue operation, then we keep looking for a live Gabriel.

We owe him that, because we are adults, and he is a defenseless baby who has been wronged, and is endangered. He needs us. And we will take a deep breath, and dry our tears or let them flow, and we will step up to the plate, and look for him, the best ways we know how.

And when and if LE tells us he is gone, then we will continue to look for him, so that he may be brought home for his daddy to lay him to rest with the love and dignity and respect he deserves.

I think that's why we're here, isn't it?

BeanE, God bless you for this post.

 

[captdj]

I found something interesting on a social networking site regarding a friend of EJ's commenting about EJ's new life (December 28th) and asking her to tell her more about it. Can I comment further about it here or will that get me in trouble?

Ask BeanE

 

[Pondering Mind]

I agree..I feel awful for him..I just don't know how he could leave him with her if he thought she really WAS capable of doing that..I'd kidnap my son before I left him with someone who could hurt him

bbm~
I would have too! I don't think they had been split up even a couple weeks at the time. IIRC, he did have him part of that time. (could be wrong there, so please feel free to correct) Then he did file with the court and then went back and filed for an emergency order, but of course EJ was gone by that time.

I'm with you though, I would have taken my child and RUN like the wind. Unfortunately I bet Logan will wish he had done just that every day for the rest of his life. No doubt that although EJ had threatened it and he felt she was capable of harming Gabriel, he never imagined she would take his life..(if that's what happened) Nobody ever believes that things like this will actually happen to them, but they do, to someone..

 

[TearsforCaylee]

If LE officially ends up classifying this case as a "homicide" instead of a missing person's case, is it possible they could essentially go after TPS and JS somehow for indirectly being co-conspirators in a murder? I know this is probably a long shot, but just thought I'd ask anyway. My background is in psychology/sociology, not law. Any legal eagles here?

 

[txsvicki]

Does anyone know if Eliz ever hit or tried to harm Logan? I guessing I'm asking more out of curiousity. I know she tore up and trashed their apartment, but does she also have a history of striking people? Hitting the baby?

I remember reading about her chasing her father around with a plunger, but to be honest I have a hard time imagining a small child chasing an adult around. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I wonder what the whole story is there.

The rages and violence could be why she was in 5 different foster homes. I've heard of kids going into uncontrollable rages where it takes a couple of adults to get them under control. I'd run from someone who broke windows, and the article didn't say if she was small or an older child.

 

[not_my_kids]

I'm not BeanE, but you can comment on posts made to the page of someone related to the case. Do not directly quote it, give a link, and don't give the name of the person leaving the comment or link to the page of the person that left it.

Clear as mud, huh? LOL.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Does anyone know if Eliz ever hit or tried to harm Logan? I guessing I'm asking more out of curiousity. I know she tore up and trashed their apartment, but does she also have a history of striking people? Hitting the baby?

I remember reading about her chasing her father around with a plunger, but to be honest I have a hard time imagining a small child chasing an adult around. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I wonder what the whole story is there.

It was insinuated that she had...although Logan never came right out and said what she had done. There is a video (I believe, maybe just an article..I'll go look) where that is mentioned, but no details. I've wondered myself just exactly what it was..