AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #9

[Amster]

At one point, didn't the Smiths say they had Gabriel for 12 days? From the end of Nov. til Dec. something? Logan says he last saw Gabriel on Dec. 8 when EJ kicked him out.

 

[Prof]

So at this point IMO she made arrangements to give Baby Gabriel to someone in San Antonio on Dec 26th and she did just that. Now who did she give him to and where is he? Please let today be the day they find him. Time to talk TPS. The jig is truly up now IMO.

Did not copy entire post for space, but EXCELLENT post, Kamille!


I agree with ALL of it
What is your take on when TS and EJ met? Do you have any theories on the EJ & LM fight date and the date TS met EJ in the trailer? IMO EJ could have put an adoption ad up on CL in AZ on Dec 8 and TS answered it that day rushing over to meet Gabe –Do we have any real documentation of when Gabe first showed up or was mentioned by TS?
IMO they met in December for the first time

[eta I saw your post on this #129 here http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94032&page=6 and I agree that the nanny ad on CL on December 8 is the key--that TS saw it and called EJ -- proves what a vulture she really is]

IMO the FB entry on the 23rd is very telling, and that the argument came after the appointment

IMO the hotel was prearranged for its location near the AIRPORT; I am having a hard time buying that this couple is an SA couple --

IMO she probably did not have a reservation and did not need one, because she was told to go there

I agree that she did not have contact with the ‘couple’ on the phone in SA

IMO the fact that EJ got a babysitter at all is important

As far as $40 for the two hours, it did not seem unusual to me
In my experience a hotel babysitting is more expensive than your neighborhood teen babysitter and so is babysitting an infant; IMO the babysitter could have known something about the going rate for hotel babysitters

I think TS interpreted the babysitter’s statements as she talked to her on the phone with the intent to lead her and put words in her mouth; ie the babysitter tells TS that EJ was a little tiffed at her because she was late, and TS immediately reinforces that she knows that look that EJ gives—something like 'did she look at you like she was going to KILL you?' And the babysitter tells TS oh she told me to give Gabe some Tylenol if he got cranky because he’s teething, and TS leads –oh she had him drugged up?

Perhaps—EJ just refused to hand off Gabe on Christmas? Gabe’s first Christmas? yeah that's probably a stretch

Thank you Kamille for this post and all of your hard work!

 

[smart blonde]

Elizabeth Johnson = Casey Anthony

Tammi Smith = Cindy Anthony

Jack Smith = George Anthony

I just hope that little Gabriel didn't suffer the same fate as little Caylee.

..

 

[mysticrose]

I haven't been able to read all the threads yet...I couldn't find this one til now! Has Tammy been posting on WS? And what is the reference to enemas that I keep seeing?

LOL ..

We don't know if Tammi has been posting here at WS or not, she had been making post's to her FaceBook page frequently.
As far as the comments about the enemas Tammi and Jack own a colon cleansing business so to speak.

Welcome to WS strawberry, glad you are here !

 

[time]

I can't believe TS said she was manipulated by EJ and she doesn't know how to deal with people like that! IMO TS is Master Manipulator!

Master Manipulators and Narcissists will always try to frame and blame the other person if it suits their needs. Tammi is just so blatant about it. She is such a narcissist that she thought she could keep all the lies straight not only with LE and the FBI, but on national television. Although, there is the game, she always knew she could turn around and demonize Elizabeth. Oh, and, NOW, she only realizes how Logan wasn't bad. From the day she met Elizabeth, whenever that was, Tammi started scheming - and none of it has to do with believing anything Elizabeth said. Narcissists expertly feign emotion, but they reach their breaking point and the interior is exposed more publicly when things don't go their way and they can't control the situation.

 

[BeanE]

Your review, corrections, and additions of the following would be greatly appreciated. Other days are on their way.

Wednesday, December 9, 2009

Elizabeth tells her grandfather that she is going to give Gabriel to the Smiths.

Elizabeth tells her grandfather that Gabriel’s best future is with the Smiths, and that the way things are going between she and Logan, “Gabriel doesn’t have a chance”.

Elizabeth tells her grandfather that, since Logan would not relinquish his parental rights, she plans to avoid him for 30 days, and then claim that Logan had abandoned Gabriel.

The Smiths come to Elizabeth’s trailer, and spend 4 hours talking there. Elizabeth tells the Smiths that she is going to give away all of Gabriel’s belongings (Elizabeth may have told the Smiths this in the phone call of December 8, since the Craigslist ad to give away Gabriel’s belongings was placed by Elizabeth on December 8).

Tammi had to beg Elizabeth for Gabriel’s carseat and other belongings.

Elizabeth gives Gabriel to the Smiths.

Elizabeth calls Logan at work and tells him he has to sign papers to relinquish his parental rights so that she can place Gabriel for adoption.

Elizabeth tells Logan, “There is no way in hell you are ever going to see your son again”. Elizabeth threatens to harm Gabriel. Logan is frightened.

Elizabeth kept saying she didn’t want Logan to have Gabriel, and wanted to place him for adoption.

Elizabeth tells Logan that she has already given Gabriel to a couple who is going to adopt him.

Logan refuses to sign any papers.

Either Elizabeth or Logan call LE. It is more likely Elizabeth who calls, because charges of filing a false police report are pending against her for this incident.

Elizabeth tells LE that Logan has kidnapped Gabriel and won’t tell her where Gabriel is.

Six hours later, at 3:30am (December 10), LE finds Gabriel at the Smith’s home.

A Tempe detective goes to the Smith’s home, and is shown temporary guardianship papers. The papers are not official or legal.

The detective tells Tammi that Gabriel should remain with the Smiths.

Gabriel remains with the Smiths until December 18 (total of 10 days).

The Smiths earlier stated that Gabriel stayed with them from late November until early December, and that at this time, they were simply babysitting him while Logan and Elizabeth figured out what they were going to do. This is likely to be untrue.

The Smiths say they didn’t communicate with Logan because Elizabeth told them that Logan was abusive. Tammi has also said that, to her knowledge, Logan has definitely never been abusive.

 

[time]

Your review, corrections, and additions of the following would be greatly appreciated. Other days are on their way.

Tuesday, December 8, 2009

Elizabeth and Logan argue. The timeframe of this argument is likely in the early evening, after Logan comes home from work, and ending at Gabriel's bedtime.

Elizabeth threatens to harm Gabriel.

Elizabeth tells Logan to leave their home where they've lived together for two years, and ""Take that damn baby with you."

After the argument, Logan kisses Gabriel, puts him to bed, and leaves.

This is the last date Logan saw Gabriel.

Elizabeth calls the Smiths. It is unknown whether Elizabeth called the Smiths before or after her argument with the Smiths. According to the Smiths, this is the first contact Elizabeth and the Smiths have had since meeting in an airport 7 months previously. Elizabeth offers Gabriel to the Smiths for adoption so Logan would not get custody of him.

Elizabeth places ads on Craigslist for a "nanny" so she can work although she has no job, to give away Gabriel's belongings, and to rent out a room in her trailer. It is unknown whether these ads were placed before or after her argument with Logan, or before or after her phone conversation with the Smiths.

I'm not sure if Elizabeth placed any other ad this day except for the nanny? But maybe you already have those handy.

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

Sorry had to run the kids to school.

I say they probably didn't seize her computer as I can see new posts on her FB page made by Tammi herself. I also say she is using a computer because when you post via phone it shows a little <phone> icon beside the post.

Could she be at a friends house? Sure. But at 7am?
JMHO

 

[Gin]

Master Manipulators and Narcissists will always try to frame and blame the other person if it suits their needs. Tammi is just so blatant about it. She is such a narcissist that she thought she could keep all the lies straight not only with LE and the FBI, but on national television. Although, there is the game, she always knew she could turn around and demonize Elizabeth. Oh, and, NOW, she only realizes how Logan wasn't bad. From the day she met Elizabeth, whenever that was, Tammi started scheming - and none of it has to do with believing anything Elizabeth said. Narcissists expertly feign emotion, but they reach their breaking point and the interior is exposed more publicly when things don't go their way and they can't control the situation.

Seems to me the personality traits you outline are equally applicable to both TS and EJ.

 

[FramedFather]

Sorry had to run the kids to school.

I say they probably didn't seize her computer as I can see new posts on her FB page made by Tammi herself. I also say she is using a computer because when you post via phone it shows a little <phone> icon beside the post.

Could she be at a friends house? Sure. But at 7am?
JMHO

I would say police took her computer, if they didn't they have made a huge mistake and are committing "shoddy" police work. It would be completely idiotic for them to not confinscate that computer IMO.

She could of ran to the store this morning and bought another one, there is no law against that.

 

[W8nC]

Seizing one's computer now a days seems like a given. This will all come back to Tammi.

If they took her computer, wouldn't they likely have taken her phones and blackberries and all that as well? If she' back to posting, it's probably from someone else's computer. She may be at an internet cafe, a friend's house, or even at a Kinkos. Or a hotel lobby!!

Maybe they even have PCs available in the intake area of Sheriff Joe's Bed & Breakfast.

 

[mamaeb]

Sorry had to run the kids to school.

I say they probably didn't seize her computer as I can see new posts on her FB page made by Tammi herself. I also say she is using a computer because when you post via phone it shows a little <phone> icon beside the post.

Could she be at a friends house? Sure. But at 7am?
JMHO

maybe at her work?

 

[A_Closer_Look]

I'm sure that she also has access to PC's from her various business offices.

 

[momtective]

:wave: WB BeanE!

 

[BeanE]

I'm not sure if Elizabeth placed any other ad this day except for the nanny? But maybe you already have those handy.

Sorry. You're right. the free baby clothes ad was on Dec 12. Will correct.

ETA: Fixed in OP! Thanks again

 

[smart blonde]

If they took her computer, wouldn't they likely have taken her phones and blackberries and all that as well? If she' back to posting, it's probably from someone else's computer. She may be at an internet cafe, a friend's house, or even at a Kinkos. Or a hotel lobby!!

Maybe they even have PCs available in the intake area of Sheriff Joe's Bed & Breakfast.

Or, Tammi could have gone straight out and bought herself a new laptop.

The Phoenix metropolitan area is loaded with 24 hour Wal-Marts, which have electronic departments.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

BeanE:

I can't imagine what you are going thru right now trying to gather all the carp by the day on this case.

This case is a mess

Bless you for doing it.


BTW: You were missed.

 

[Kenziema]

Your review, corrections, and additions of the following would be greatly appreciated. Other days are on their way.

Tuesday, December 8, 2009

Elizabeth and Logan argue. The timeframe of this argument is likely in the early evening, after Logan comes home from work, and ending at Gabriel's bedtime.

Elizabeth threatens to harm Gabriel.

Elizabeth tells Logan to leave their home where they've lived together for two years, and ""Take that damn baby with you."

After the argument, Logan kisses Gabriel, puts him to bed, and leaves.

This is the last date Logan saw Gabriel.

*Snipped*
Not to talk bad about Logan, but WHY after someone tells you they are going to harm your child, would you leave your child there?!?

 

[Shear22]

Sorry. You're right. the free baby clothes ad was on Dec 12. Will correct.

So the only craigslist ad from the 8th was the nanny one? I think this is important because it furthers Kamille's theory that TPS and EJ met b/c TPS answered the nanny ad.

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

Yes absolutely she could find internet access elsewhere however if I was POI and my home was searched last night, I'd think buying a new computer would not be high on my priority list. Her posts on fb was made 2 hours ago, so 7am in AZ <?>