AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #11

[txanmom]

I know this was not directed at me, but the obvious answer is that anyone who was (supposedly) sleeping between her room and the actual point of egress. If she went out the window, there's nobody who could have stopped it. But if someone was sleeping in the den and she went out there, or the front door and someone was sleeping in the family room, they'd be questioned about how the kidnapper got past them with Isabel and without waking them, even stopping to free a hand to turn the doorknob and the sound of the door closing.

Yesterday, in the parents interviews, SC said they were the only one's there that night, nobody else. It got me to thinking that if they were trying to only say that because LE had told them not to mention anyone else was there (if there really was) that person would know they were lying about him, and he might put 2 and 2 together and realize he was under suspicion. So that made me think they were telling the truth about that. (does that make any sense? lol)

 

[~n/t~]

IMO, if they passed they wouldn't be under such scrutiny by LE. 14 days later, they would have been ruled out.

Like I said previous times, polys are not end all be all but there is something more than the polygraphs that is holding back LE from telling the public nobody is ruled out including the parents. They've been back to the house 3 times from what I can tell. This last time was the same day the cleaning crew was there and the same day they did the interview with NBC. All 3 went in separately including the 14 year old brother.

Their stories are still not adding up is what I would conclude based on activities to date.

The searches remained within a 3 mile radius and have not expanded (excluding border awareness to Mexico). Detectives have scaled back on their search. What remains are volunteers putting up posters and family, friends and the community doing fund raisers, selling bracelets and tshirts and praying.

I'd like to know if LE gave the parents the green light to have a SAR team come in to search. If not, why?

 

[TxLady2]

Totally agree.

There's no handbook on how to act when your child just disappears, as far as I know. There are people who don't cry because they feel like it's a private thing. Personally, I cry over soap operas, TV commercials, and all sorts of things. When my daughter went missing (she walked out the back door while I was sick on the couch w/o my knowledge for about 15-30 mins), I wandered around the house for what seemed like an eternity trying to figure out how to get dressed.

Our bodies do strange things when we are under extremely stressful conditions. The only way I can describe it is that you feel like you are in a tunnel and everything going on around you is blocked from your view. Don't know if that makes sense to anyone else.

So true. When my son was missing years ago, I think I went crazy for a little bit. One of my neighbors was standing in the yard trying to calm me down by telling me he was okay, they would find him, and I was yelling at her, saying 'how do you know that?!!'
The fact is, you cannot control your emotions when something like this happens, yet there is no way you can keep crying "on cue" just to satisfy a million people who happen to be watching you on t.v. No one should have to be concerned with how they look or appear to viewers. I know that is not what any poster has said, but sometimes I think that's the way it comes across to me. Some are sitting back watching these parents and judging how they should be acting, and it's like they don't pass the test. THIS IS NOT A TEST!! This is real life and there are no set rules parents have to follow when it comes to crying or not crying, closing eyes, or whatever!!
Thanks for your post, sorry about the rant!!

 

[Patty G]

Way back when, one of our members found the property records on the Celis house, of which, showed 1 and 1/2 stories for the address.

A little later on, it was determined that the property records had the wrong information under the Celis name, that is was actually the information of the house across the street from the Celis.

Does anyone remember this?

 

[txanmom]

I keep seeing the square footage as 3800? Yeah, my house is a 1 1/2 story with a very similar layout. I cannot hear anything from my daughter's room in the back corner of the house.

 

[GutFeeling!]

I don't think they would ask a question in that manner about someone else on a polygraph. They might ask "Do you know who took your daughter?" but they wouldn't name another person in any questions. Polygraphs are generally aimed towards the individual taking them, not to their knowledge of any other person who may or may not be involved.
ETA: They usually ask straightforward yes or no questions. Like "did you have anything to do with your daughter's disappearance?" and "do you know where your daughter is?"

It was part of a conversation with others just to answer a question, but you are correct (yet again) they would not ask a question like that, but going into the science part of lie detectors would take up a lot of this forum and be quite boring - just like this post.

As I said, as part of that partiular conversation, I have had lie detector tests, others also commented - it was a Friday night moment thing Just trying to keep things simple and answer a question for someone - ironically they understood

 

[txanmom]

sq foot 3802
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Arizona/Tucson/sold/1082567-5602-E-12th-St-Tucson-AZ-85711

 

[Patty G]

The one and 1/2 story house is across the street and has no garage.

The Celis' house is not 1 1/2 stories.

 

[~n/t~]

Yesterday, in the parents interviews, SC said they were the only one's there that night, nobody else. It got me to thinking that if they were trying to only say that because LE had told them not to mention anyone else was there (if there really was) that person would know they were lying about him, and he might put 2 and 2 together and realize he was under suspicion. So that made me think they were telling the truth about that. (does that make any sense? lol)

or they are not telling the truth and protecting someone? With that said, I don't think a parent would lie for anyone when it comes to their missing child unless it is another child who may have gotten themselves in a lot of trouble or there is a reason like a death threat. Not saying that is the case but I can't see no reason why a parent would cover up for an uncle, cousin or extended family.

IMO

 

[txanmom]

The one and 1/2 story house is across the street and has no garage.

The Celis' house is not 1 1/2 stories.

gotcha, it says on the link above it's 2 stories. makes me think there might be bedrooms upstairs.

 

[~n/t~]

The one and 1/2 story house is across the street and has no garage.

The Celis' house is not 1 1/2 stories.

So what is it? 2 stories. Are all the bedrooms on the second floor? TIA

 

[Patty G]

sq foot 3802
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Arizona/Tucson/sold/1082567-5602-E-12th-St-Tucson-AZ-85711

I recall seeing that site, but according to the tax records, of which, these sites take their information, it indicates the Celis' house has NO GARAGE.

I am trying to find the actual records for the building across the street from the Celis' home to see what their records indicate.

Someone did all this leg-work already, but I forgot who it was. Maybe they'll stop by later, or I'll try a search of threads later on.

 

[Patty G]

So what is it? 2 stories. Are all the bedrooms on the second floor? TIA

The Celis' house is not 2 stories. The house across the street is 2 stories.

The Celis' house has all their living quarters on the main floor.

 

[Patty G]

Here is Pima County website to look at records.

http://www.asr.pima.gov/links/resinfo.aspx

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO, if they passed they wouldn't be under such scrutiny by LE. 14 days later, they would have been ruled out.

Like I said previous times, polys are not end all be all but there is something more than the polygraphs that is holding back LE from telling the public nobody is ruled out including the parents. They've been back to the house 3 times from what I can tell. This last time was the same day the cleaning crew was there and the same day they did the interview with NBC. All 3 went in separately including the 14 year old brother.

Their stories are still not adding up is what I would conclude based on activities to date.

The searches remained within a 3 mile radius and have not expanded (excluding border awareness to Mexico). Detectives have scaled back on their search. What remains are volunteers putting up posters and family, friends and the community doing fund raisers, selling bracelets and tshirts and praying.

I'd like to know if LE gave the parents the green light to have a SAR team come in to search. If not, why?

As far as I know they have never returned to live in their home since Isa went missing. The only time I know they came back with LE to meet at the home was just the other day. They have gone back to gather items they needed in their daily lives a couple of times.

I dont see where the police is continuing to scrutinize them. They do continue to update the Celis family on the case per LE and the family. I see no rift between LE and this family. I do understand the family's frustrations that LE has spent so much time on them. Heck, Mark Lunsford got highly ticked off with LE too with them spending so much time on him and his parents and all the while Jessica was across the street being raped and murdered by Couey. LE also returned frequently to the Lunsford parents and their home to keep assessing anything they may have missed.

Police do not ever comment on poly results so this case isnt any different and not every family member that takes one and passes rushes out to toot their own horn to tell everyone they passed. Lunsford didnt and I like that honestly. All that needs to know the results is the family and LE.

IMO, this is going to be like countless other cases we have discussed over the years where LE rules no one out until and if an arrest is made.

Scaling back searches happens when the case has gone on for this long. N/t, this case is not really any different than other cases. In fact in other missing cases the searches didnt even go on as long as this one has and they are still searching and the flyers of Isa is still being put out in Mexico.

Yes, it has been 14 days and not once has LE come out and named these parents as suspects.

IMO

 

[Prof]

Way back when, one of our members found the property records on the Celis house, of which, showed 1 and 1/2 stories for the address.

A little later on, it was determined that the property records had the wrong information under the Celis name, that is was actually the information of the house across the street from the Celis.

Does anyone remember this?

I remember this. What do you need?

 

[LisaB]

Good morning everyone!

(snip) I assume that the family down the street is BC's mom/dad, or at least on her side of the family. What if JM was staying the night over there that Friday/Saturday? Then that might explain why he was there so early to help look. Especially since I think he is on BC side of the family? Isn't that what we figured out?

Good morning!

Since the relatives up the road are named Celis, IMO they are from Sergio's side of the family. Rebecca's maiden name was Snyder.

 

[liz b.]

If the cord of the blinds was pretty short, it might be kind of difficult to raise the blinds from outside the window. We tie our blind cords up so that they don't drop to the floor where the pets get tangled in them. Then when the blinds are lowered to the base of the window, the cord is actually about halfway up the blinds. Not easy to reach in from outside to pull the cord.
In my mind, that window is how the perp got IN the house, but not necessarily how they got OUT holding a 6 y.o. child. If there was a back door close by, they could have grabbed her, held one hand over her mouth, or threatened her they would kill her if she made a noise and quickly slipped out the door. I wouldn't be so quick to discount the window, or declare it a setup, simply because it turned out to be the point of entry in other cases. Besides, LE is not as much concerned with how the perp got out as they are how he got in. Make sense?

Very hard to move vertical blinds to the side, and have them stay moved ? But if the blinds are the horizontal type ? The important thing is that his prints would be on the blinds,screen and window. MOO And wouldn't they be back by now ? I wonder if there are no unidentified prints on the screen,blinds etc. ?

If he wore gloves,would that show smearing of any other prints on the screen,blinds etc. ?

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I keep seeing the square footage as 3800? Yeah, my house is a 1 1/2 story with a very similar layout. I cannot hear anything from my daughter's room in the back corner of the house.

Its the same way at our home. We have sound proofing in our walls and if I even go to another bedroom down the hallway I cant even hear the tv if I have it on in the living room.

IMO

 

[Prof]

I know this was not directed at me, but the obvious answer is that anyone who was (supposedly) sleeping between her room and the actual point of egress. If she went out the window, there's nobody who could have stopped it. But if someone was sleeping in the den and she went out there, or the front door and someone was sleeping in the family room, they'd be questioned about how the kidnapper got past them with Isabel and without waking them, even stopping to free a hand to turn the doorknob and the sound of the door closing.

Do some posters think the parents were lying about there being no other person except for the parents and children at the home that night?

They would have to be lying about that, and they would have to be lying throughout the interview it would seem. Why would they cover that fact up?