AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[txanmom]

There have been no large scale searches here aside from the initial search and canvass. I can only take this to mean they have reason to believe she is and has been dead since early in the case. I have to believe the references to "bringing her home safely", etc. are psychologically designed to illicit certain responses from whomever they feel is responsible.

Of course, I dearly hope I am wrong.

I have been thinking about this. IMOO, *if* they thought she was dead, wouldn't they really be searching more? More ground searches with a specific focus on certain areas. They have the families phones, computers, and area surveillance videos. Wouldn't they have an idea of what occurred if they really thought the parents did it and were hiding things. I mean, we all know they really need a body to go to prosecution/press charges. Also, the sooner they find the body, the more likely they can determine COD which is so important to charge someone with a crime.

If she is alive, the searches may be of a different nature, such as trailing someone (a suspect), following a paper trail, or contacting known cohorts of a suspect for interviewing. Also, if searches of this nature were to occur in Mexico, I don't think we would hear of them. Additionally, if she is alive, and they are trailing a suspect, the last thing they want to do is alert this person that they are onto them, so I find it very unlikely they would share details with the media, or search organizations with little training in these types of searches.

These points lead me to believe that could be the reason that they do not want to use different private search organizations or volunteers. For the most part, from what I have observed, these types of searches are usually for a deceased individual. I am not sure if TES does PI types of searches where you bug people or follow them or pull ATM/CC/Bank/Passport/ID/MV records to track an individuals movements.

Honestly though, I really wonder about whether they are doing these types of searches and truly believe she is alive, (which LE and family have stated in various interviews/pressers) OR they have no idea WTheck happened to her. LE has stated they have made progress and I am trying to cling to this comment. I so hope she is alive and will be reunited with her family.

Honestly, my thoughts on the Celis' after all I have heard/seen/read, is that they are probably better parents than I am! I don't do half the things they did with their family/children on a regular basis (and I love my family dearly). I find them very family oriented. Very kid-centric. IMO they looked shell-shocked in their interviews. My heart goes out to them. I just do not see them hurting sweet Isa.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Were scenthounds used to try to track Isabela's scent ? Outside the house ?

Wouldn't the scent hounds be able to pick up the area were Isabel last was ? Where did her scent end ?

It's strange that this has never been mentioned ? MOO

So much of this reminds me of Zahra.


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[PlainJaneDoe]

It seems LE does not WANT help. They have specifically said the searches are a job for LE.

Not directed at you, Shelby...I thought that yesterday I read a post with a quote or a snip that referred to a fundraiser to support costs of the search for Isa. Does anyone remember, offhand?

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_f40f088a-d537-5627-9f7a-7a3a3e572d9f.html


What's new

There was no briefing by the Tucson Police Department about the case Wednesday, and the next briefing is set for today at 2 p.m. Today is Day 20 of the investigation, which began when Isabel, 6, was reported missing from her midtown Tucson home the morning of April 21.

This past weekend, a softball tournament and a concert raised $3,089 - bringing the total to more than $17,600 raised through fundraisers to help the Celis family. Included in the $17,600 raised is $11,600 donated to the Tucson Medical Center Foundation fund from donors throughout the country to help the Celis family.

What's next

Friends of Isabel's parents, Sergio and Becky Celis, and co-workers of Becky, a Tucson Medical Center nurse, continue hosting fundraisers to help the family and to pay for costs related to the search effort.

Volunteers have organized a candlelight walk for Isabel on May 18 at 7 p.m. at the volunteer center in the Office Max parking lot at the southeast corner of Broadway and Craycroft Road. Donations will be accepted at the center and during the walk.

So far

More than 1,000 tips have been reported. Isabel, 6, was reported missing from her midtown home April 21.

88-CRIME is offering a $50,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of anyone responsible for Isabel's disappearance. Private donors contributed $49,000 to the reward fund.

Found it! I bolded the part that confused me, because as posted above, volunteer searches aren't being done.

Thoughts?

 

[pieper4]

I have been thinking about this. IMOO, *if* they thought she was dead, wouldn't they really be searching more? More ground searches with a specific focus on certain areas. They have the families phones, computers, and area surveillance videos. Wouldn't they have an idea of what occurred if they really thought the parents did it and were hiding things. I mean, we all know they really need a body to go to prosecution/press charges. Also, the sooner they find the body, the more likely they can determine COD which is so important to charge someone with a crime.

If she is alive, the searches may be of a different nature, such as trailing someone (a suspect), following a paper trail, or contacting known cohorts of a suspect for interviewing. Also, if searches of this nature were to occur in Mexico, I don't think we would hear of them. Additionally, if she is alive, and they are trailing a suspect, the last thing they want to do is alert this person that they are onto them, so I find it very unlikely they would share details with the media, or search organizations with little training in these types of searches.

These points lead me to believe that could be the reason that they do not want to use different private search organizations or volunteers. For the most part, from what I have observed, these types of searches are usually for a deceased individual. I am not sure if TES does PI types of searches where you bug people or follow them or pull ATM/CC/Bank/Passport/ID/MV records to track an individuals movements.

Honestly though, I really wonder about whether they are doing these types of searches and truly believe she is alive, (which LE and family have stated in various interviews/pressers) OR they have no idea WTheck happened to her. LE has stated they have made progress and I am trying to cling to this comment. I so hope she is alive and will be reunited with her family.

Absolutely valid points, and I hope you are correct that they have reason to know she's alive and are just lining up their ducks. It's absolutely heartbreaking, and I just can't get a clear "sense" of it... even living in the same town.

 

[pieper4]

Found it! I bolded the part that confused me, because as posted above, volunteer searches aren't being done.

Thoughts?

I believe they are referring to "search efforts" not in a physical sense, but rather the fliers, billboards, etc.

My take.

 

[time]

I wouldn't "normally" dote on a 911 call or who made it, but in this case, everyone has been so obsessively secret about this call that it raises my hackles. When asked about the 911 call, Sergio very carefully answered the question (in the local media interview) with "911 was called within ten minutes". It was obvious to me he had planned this answer. And LE will not talk about who made the 911 call. It's just weird that this is a secret. I can't think of any other case where the question of who called 911 is a mystery. What's the big secret and why?

Add to that the assumption (from the scanner chatter) that Sergio did not make the 911 call, and it reinforces my feeling of this being part of a thought-out and orchestrated plan. Certainly it's feasible that a panicking parent would tell their kid to call 911 while he looked for the child, but, combined with the other 'weirdnesses' of this case, it feels significant.

Every day I try to convince myself that the parents have no involvement, but by the end of each day, I'm back to thinking that they are.

And then every day I tell myself, "LE has the goods on whoever is responsible for this child's disappearance. They know what happened, they're just crossing their i's and dotting their t's to be able to successfully prosecute. Today may be the day they come down with the big kibosh and arrest the bad guy(s)." But then every day passes without it.

Where is this child???

Yeah ... incredibly weird that who the caller was is somehow a secret? I would possibly have a child call if I had to in some cases, but not to report a missing child as the description is so important to get out quickly and correctly. It would only take a few minutes and basically I think you could talk while you were looking.

At any rate, I go through different scenarios also, but until I quit feeling this is all a little too hinky I will wonder if the parents are involved somehow. Like you said, it's a lot of little things that don't seem right and a few that are (or could be) a bigger deal. I was jaded a lot by the one interview where mom said she just wanted to go be alone and didn't want to talk to the media. To me, their interview had a lot of me, me, me in it from both of them. I can't see getting beligerant with the media either no matter what is going on if I'm just looking to find my kid. That's not the time you would give a da*n about what anyone else thinks is it? I wouldn't waste airtime on 'How am I supposed to act' and I would either grant interviews or assign a family spokesperson that could be called. Anyone who lost a child this way would be really lucky to get this much attention and donations of time, effort, money, and in-kind stuff such as a huge rolling billboard in my opinion. A lot of them do not get this much help and support.

 

[time]

Not directed at you, Shelby...I thought that yesterday I read a post with a quote or a snip that referred to a fundraiser to support costs of the search for Isa. Does anyone remember, offhand?

there is a calendar of events on the Find Isa sight ... not sure what the donations are funding

 

[FrayedKnot]

I know I already said it, but can't it be known who made the %^%%$ call???
Unless the person who made it was not supposed to be there at all, I cannot see why this should be protected information, especially now that conflicting details are out there.

Frankly, this is the carp that is sending my hinky meter thru the roof!

Jumping Jeebus, if this were MY child missing, I would give out all the info I could. I would answer questions and succinctly. I would be able to answer the easiest dadgum questions like "who called 911?" or "what was she wearing?"

This is their daughter! Why aren't they doing everything they can to get the correct info out there so that she can be found? Why aren't they searching for her? Asking everyone in the country to look for her? The more time they waste, the less chance there is of EVER finding her!

It stinks, and it stinks to high heaven. They can sing all the Ava Marias they want, but until they can stop evading the simplest of questions, and just tell the truth, they come across as guilty as sin. And lots of people think they ARE for that reason.

"if you only speak the truth, you need never whisper"

MOO. My very frustrated opinion. Where is Isa?




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[FrayedKnot]

I understand why they say they believe her to be alive...but if she is deceased, it is equally important to find her...not just for decency's sake, but for possible evidence.

I feel that way, too. But this case just reminds me of an ambulance just sitting at the scene of an accident, lights flashing, victims inside, but just sitting. Not rushing to the hospital. Because the victim inside has died so there is mo need to rush now.

Perhaps LE knows what happened and are just collecting the pieces they need to build a case.

My opinion/allegory.


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[PlainJaneDoe]

Regarding the cleaning - we have no idea what was used to analyze the house, so we really cannot say what would be involved in cleaning it up. Furthermore, even if it were simply fingerprint dust - I would still consider that toxic. I wouldn't want my children inhaling particles. Or, if I were the Celis family, I may assume some of the things used were toxic, even if they aren't. I really doubt it would be high on my priority list to figure out everything that was used. I'd probably just want someone to clean it up so I could keep my mind on the important things.

Regardless, I think people are putting way too much stock into this cleaning thing. It has no real bearing on who has taken Isa or where she may be found.

This is not intended to be rude or as criticism of anyone, but...wouldn't someone from LE debrief the family regarding possible health concerns when they let them know the house is released? If not, IMO they should!

 

[FrayedKnot]

I think it is probably due to the super-efficiency of government agencies...
Probably takes a while...JMO

If local LE and FBI had serious doubts as to whether this were an actual kidnapping, might that be a reason not to include Isa on the FBI list?

Or would they still add a case they had some doubts about, just to cover their bases?

Serious question-I don't know how that works. Could it really just be the rusty wheels of bureaucracy turning at their usual crawl?



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[cluciano63]

FBI site only has a tiny # of people on there...they have Aliyah, as "missing" yet Ayla or Lisa not at all. They show Lindsey Baum as "missing" yet Hailey Dunn as "kidnapped."
And also Sierra is shown as "missing."

No rhyme or reason at all.

 

[FrayedKnot]

FBI site only has a tiny # of people on there...they have Aliyah, as "missing" yet Ayla or Lisa not at all. They show Lindsey Baum as "missing" yet Hailey Dunn as "kidnapped."
And also Sierra is shown as "missing."

No rhyme or reason at all.

Thank you! So as far as you know, a place on the list is not given based on the veracity or merit of the case?

Why doesn't that surprise me?


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[cluciano63]

Thank you! So as far as you know, a place on the list is not given based on the veracity or merit of the case?

Why doesn't that surprise me?


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Doesn't seem to be any criteria I can figure out...such as Hailey Dunn; why would she be listed as "kidnapped" and yet not Lindsey Baum, who clearly WAS kidnapped, IMO? Even Kyron is listed as "missing." So apparently we can't go by how a person is listed, or even if they are...JMO

 

[Taminator]

Here's the latest:

Police: CPS has 'increased involvement' in Celis investigation

http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-cps-has-increased-involvement-in-celis-investigation/

"It needs to be stressed that is common practice for CPS to become involved in investigations regarding missing children. However, in keeping with our commitment to keep members of the media and our community informed of changes or developments in this investigation, we felt it important to advise you of the increased involvement of CPS."

 

[SpongeBathHotPants]

Question for those familiar with or residents of AZ:

how well patrolled are the non authorized crossing areas? I ask because clearly with the number of illegal immigrants in the country they get here by using stealth and by crossing in areas where they are not seen or asked for documentation.

If we have trouble stemming the tide of people crossing into the US illegally from Mexico, how much easier is it probably to cross from US into Mexico? Just slip across the border, no papers or passports needed.

My point: If this child has been spirited away to Mexico (NOT my belief btw) then I highly doubt it was done by crossing at an authorized entry point and providing documentation.

The line between Mexico and AZ is somewhat patrolled but not 100%. You don't need anything to cross into Mexico. If you are walking you just go through the gate and you're in, don't have to talk to anyone. And if you are driving you may get stopped but not usually. Hopes that helps.

 

[Shelby2]

Frankly, this is the carp that is sending my hinky meter thru the roof!

Jumping Jeebus, if this were MY child missing, I would give out all the info I could. I would answer questions and succinctly. I would be able to answer the easiest dadgum questions like "who called 911?" or "what was she wearing?"

This is their daughter! Why aren't they doing everything they can to get the correct info out there so that she can be found? Why aren't they searching for her? Asking everyone in the country to look for her? The more time they waste, the less chance there is of EVER finding her!

It stinks, and it stinks to high heaven. They can sing all the Ava Marias they want, but until they can stop evading the simplest of questions, and just tell the truth, they come across as guilty as sin. And lots of people think they ARE for that reason.

"if you only speak the truth, you need never whisper"

MOO. My very frustrated opinion. Where is Isa?




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But these questions were also asked to LE at numerous press conferences-and THEY said they would not comment due to the fact that it would "harm their investigation".
Why would the parents do anything different?? I'm sure the parents aren't calling the shots here!

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Here's the latest:

Police: CPS has 'increased involvement' in Celis investigation

http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-cps-has-increased-involvement-in-celis-investigation/

Could this be because of the stress or trauma related to Isa's disappearance? I'm not a parent or guardian, so I'm not really clear on the scope of CPS' mission/responsibilities.

 

[Lark2]

Here's the latest:

Police: CPS has 'increased involvement' in Celis investigation

http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-cps-has-increased-involvement-in-celis-investigation/

Wow. Unbelievable. Feels like the media thing all over again, with LE basically talking to the public about the parents' reluctance to sit down for interviews with the media, thus raising suspicion. That was followed by the very public spectacle of bringing the parents and brother to the house separately, each accompanied by four detectives, when cameras just happened to be there to film it.

I really felt the parents couldn't have been involved in their daughter's disappearance after their last interview, but I can't ignore the fact that LE appears to continue to signal that the family is culpable for some aspect.