AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[cluciano63]

ITA!

LE usually mentions how much money has been spent.

That shows me they have done a lot of leg work and searches too even though they are not the type to release where they search but they are continuing to get tips and will continue to check those out.

I still have my doubts about searches being conducted...when LE searches, they use all kinds of vehicles, orange vests, etc...and we always end up hearing about it. They really can't conduct large ground searches "in secret." I don't understand why searching is not being done every weekend, if not by volunteer group or trained search groups, at least by LE. Even if LE believes she was taken away in a car, which she probably was, she still has to be somewhere...and if she is not alive, evidence will be vanishing day by day. JMO

 

[liz b.]

I think LE fought releasing the 911 call because it was a minor making the call and it was about a kidnapping and not about 'mommy (daddy) wont wake up" 911 call.

I saw one case where the 911 tape was never released to the public and not even in the trial. The Judge ruled it too prejudicial against the defendant and it was made by the murdered woman's husband who wasnt the defendant but he was the one that found his wife murdered. She said it could incite the passions of the jury.

Everyday I am more and more convinved that the Celis parents or other family members have nothing to do with the disappearance of Isa. And today I read that the PC told the reporters he believed very early on that this is a legitimate kidnapping which just enforces my beliefs I have held for weeks now.

I dont think LE has a clue who took Isa from her own bedroom. They have said they have no suspects and I believe them even though I wish they did.

IMO

But, the PC said that he thought it was a "legitimate kidanapping " at the onset of this child's disappearance... before any forensics were taken,and the results were known.Before the FBI interviewed the family.The entire family. He made that comment based on very scant information. Perhaps,with the passing of time, and the gathering of evidence ( which LE surely has MOO ) he might have reconsidered, or allowed in his mind for other possibilities to exist ? JMO

 

[LisaB]

That is true but they still are very capable when talking with the 911 operator so that certainly means a 10 or 14 year old would be.

I dont think there was an adult available in the home. I think Sergio rushed out along wth the uncle and was frantically looking for Isa and told whoever was left at their home at the time to call 911.

Just like Mark did not waste time calling 911 when he flew out the door to search for Jessica.

I think it was most likely the 14 year old son and imo when the call is released, I think it will show he was very competent to make such a call. JMO

I just see no red flags about this whatsoever.



IMO

In the last thread, someone asked who made the 911 call. Someone else stated that, while the answer could be found in the scanner thread, it was "the only adult in the house at that time."

I don't know what that means, at first I assumed they were alluding to JM, but then decided they meant SC.

 

[cluciano63]

I know I already said it, but can't it be known who made the %^%%$ call???
Unless the person who made it was not supposed to be there at all, I cannot see why this should be protected information, especially now that conflicting details are out there.

 

[Shelby2]

The BAU arrived in Tucson and didn't interview the family for days. It is unknown IF the BAU ever interviewed the family. After the BAU left, the organized LE searches around the neighborhood seemed to stop and the focus was back on the immediate family.

I think the cadaver dog hit inside the home and the BAU knew a real kidnapper wasn't going to kill his victim and then abduct a dead body.....through an open window, over a 5 foot fence, among 3 barking dogs, and in a neighborhood with multiple security cameras.

The FBI arrived the next day-how do you know the parents weren't interviewed for days?
There were two FBI canines flown in from VA-a cadaver dog and a scent eliminator dog. They never said which dog made the hit-but if it was the cadaver dog why have the police been saying all along they think she is still alive?

 

[tlcya]

I would hope so too if it were my child but I am asking who is responsible for paying the million dollars, the Celis family or the state of Arizona.

Is it your experience that families pay for investigation into their missing child in other cases? I am curious because I haven't seen this question posed before.

It is my understanding that the state pays for police and emergency services, which would include investigating a missing person case.

 

[Knox]

Wrong case. That is Sierra LaMar.

No, I was not talking about the Sierra Lamar case ...

 

[tlcya]

Knox, the car with pillows and blankets in it brought to mind the Zahra Baker case for me. Was that the one you were thinking of?

There was some confusion about what the dogs hit on in that case and what type of scents the dogs were looking for exactly IIRC.

I am not sure what to make of the car situation in this case.

 

[CinnamonGirl]

Is it your experience that families pay for investigation into their missing child in other cases? I am curious because I haven't seen this question posed before.

It is my understanding that the state pays for police and emergency services, which would include investigating a missing person case.

I am asking this question because in almost every report about this case it is always mentioned how much this case is costing. So I did not know if it was the families responsibility hence all the fundraisers and so on to eventually have to pay the state or if it was the state that was paying. All places are different. I don't know AZ laws, I don't live there.

 

[pieper4]

I still have my doubts about searches being conducted...when LE searches, they use all kinds of vehicles, orange vests, etc...and we always end up hearing about it. They really can't conduct large ground searches "in secret." I don't understand why searching is not being done every weekend, if not by volunteer group or trained search groups, at least by LE. Even if LE believes she was taken away in a car, which she probably was, she still has to be somewhere...and if she is not alive, evidence will be vanishing day by day. JMO

There have been no large scale searches here aside from the initial search and canvass. I can only take this to mean they have reason to believe she is and has been dead since early in the case. I have to believe the references to "bringing her home safely", etc. are psychologically designed to illicit certain responses from whomever they feel is responsible.

Of course, I dearly hope I am wrong.

 

[tlcya]

I am asking this question because in almost every report about this case it is always mentioned how much this case is costing. So I did not know if it was the families responsibility hence all the fundraisers and so on to eventually have to pay the state or if it was the state that was paying. All places are different. I don't know AZ laws, I don't live there.

ah, thanks for clarifying

State or county pay for the LE investigation (or the feds for FBI related services) but fundraisers are often held to raise additional monies so that families can print posters/flyers, make tee-shirts, etc in an effort to keep the missing person's face and description out there. Those items are often left to the families to obtain and distribute as they see fit.

Often times funds from those types of fundraisers are used for housing or bills of the victim's family as many parents are unable to continue working as they cooperate with the investigation and look for their missing relative.

I think nowadays it is pretty standard for some reporter, looking for their angle on a story when info is less than forthcoming from LEO agencies, to then begin writing about the peripheral facts of a case, such as what the costs of the investigation are up to so far, etc.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But, the PC said that he thought it was a "legitimate kidanapping " at the onset of this child's disappearance... before any forensics were taken,and the results were known.Before the FBI interviewed the family.The entire family. He made that comment based on very scant information. Perhaps,with the passing of time, and the gathering of evidence ( which LE surely has MOO ) he might have reconsidered, or allowed in his mind for other possibilities to exist ? JMO

I dont know but I dont think he has changed his mind.

Of course he has to keep all possibilities open but by now I think LE has one theory in mind and I see no evidence that it has anything at all to do with Isa's parents.

IMO

 

[cluciano63]

There have been no large scale searches here aside from the initial search and canvass. I can only take this to mean they have reason to believe she is and has been dead since early in the case. I have to believe the references to "bringing her home safely", etc. are psychologically designed to illicit certain responses from whomever they feel is responsible.

Of course, I dearly hope I am wrong.

I understand why they say they believe her to be alive...but if she is deceased, it is equally important to find her...not just for decency's sake, but for possible evidence.

 

[Knox]

Knox, the car with pillows and blankets in it brought to mind the Zahra Baker case for me. Was that the one you were thinking of?

There was some confusion about what the dogs hit on in that case and what type of scents the dogs were looking for exactly IIRC.

I am not sure what to make of the car situation in this case.

I was referring to the car in the Celis drive which does not work. LE took items from that car to have analyzed at the lab.

I was speculating that the tracking dog may have lost Isabel's scent at the driveway of the home. Did this lead investigator's to take a closer look at that area, hence taking the blankets & pillows?

Tired today, maybe I am not being very clear

 

[pieper4]

Since this is the 12th thread on Isabel's disappearance, and I doubt that I have read every post on every thread, I might have missed a description of the border crossing into Mexico south of Tucson. How many border crossings are there from AZ into Mexico? Are there guards, surveillance video, toll booths, etc.? Does everyone have to show ID? Is a passport required? I've been to Mexico several times but only as a cruise passenger or on direct flights to Cancun, so I don't know what the borders are like on land.

There are lots of border crossings into Mexico. The two closest and largest as far as I know are large ports of entry at Nogales and at Douglas. Nogales is a bit closer than Douglas, but both are within a 2 hours' drive, tops. Both have surveillance, booths, canines, armed BP agents and more.

I have not ventured into Mexico in a number of years, but it used to be that nothing was required to enter Mexico. I know you must show ID/passport to return into the US. The focus has always been FROM Mexico into the US... not the other way around.

 

[CinnamonGirl]

There are lots of border crossings into Mexico. The two closest and largest as far as I know are large ports of entry at Nogales and at Douglas. Nogales is a bit closer than Douglas, but both are within a 2 hours' drive, tops. Both have surveillance, booths, canines, armed BP agents and more.

I have not ventured into Mexico in a number of years, but it used to be that nothing was required to enter Mexico. I know you must show ID/passport to return into the US. The focus has always been FROM Mexico into the US... not the other way around.

I don't know so I am asking. Do children need passport or Id's to go into Mexico, or just the adult.

 

[Theforeigner]

I assume this has already been posted but just in case:


http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/10/jvm-isabel-celis-audio-recording

Exclusive: Recording from day Isabel vanished.

By Richard Dool
updated 1:13 PM EDT, Fri May 11,

•Jane Velez-Mitchell has obtained police scanner audio recordings from the day Isabel Celis vanished

•There appear to be discrepancies with previous information

 

[white rabbit]

I dont know but I dont think he has changed his mind.

Of course he has to keep all possibilities open but by now I think LE has one theory in mind and I see no evidence that it has anything at all to do with Isa's parents.

IMO

i'm replying to both you and liz (can't get that multi-quote thingy to work lol) but just to clarify, the chief didn't say it was a legitimate kidnapping. a division captain did.

"The first call I got about this was from the division captain," says Roberto Villasenor, chief of the Tucson Police Department. "And his first words were almost, 'this one feels legitimate.'

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18306084/finding-isabel-the-untold-investigation

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There have been no large scale searches here aside from the initial search and canvass. I can only take this to mean they have reason to believe she is and has been dead since early in the case. I have to believe the references to "bringing her home safely", etc. are psychologically designed to illicit certain responses from whomever they feel is responsible.

Of course, I dearly hope I am wrong.

This is pretty much what happens in every case. Trying to find someone alive is as hard as trying to find a deceased person. A lot of it is just pure luck or they get a lucky tip that pans out. The search usually lasts for a couple of weeks before police start pulling back.

I wouldnt expect them to still be searching extensively. Usually what they will do is start within a 3 mile radius of the kidnapping and then widen out.. which they did in this case.. and then come back, and search the closer radius again.

But I do know police is still on the look out for Isa. It is in the thread that we cant discuss here.

That is why I have felt Sierra Lamar's disappearance is so different and refreshing. They are still trying to find her although the police are not the ones doing the extensive searches but volunteers. Some police departments however do not want volunteers to search and want the searches to be done only by LE.

They said they have to check out every tip they have received and they have received over a 1000 so I think they are doing searches when they think they have received a valuable tip. For all we know they could be doing follow ups in another state or even Mexico. No telling where those tips have taken them.

They havent spent a million dollars doing absolutely nothing.

IMO

 

[Madilu]

If the caller was one of the boys he may have said something like "My sister is missing" and the 911 operator got it wrong and thought he said he was the sister of the girl who was missing.

Good thought. Also, one of the boys is named Ju**an -could have been mistaken by the dispatcher for Ju**ia ...

To me, it seems like an adult called -what young boy knows how to report the height and weight of his lil sis? That's adult speak...