AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[GutFeeling!]

Whatever parent the boys were taken from, LE or CPS would have had to give a reason to them right? Do you think they said 'You are a suspect in your daughter's disappearance'?
I wonder if the parents will say anything? Because if I was the parent they kids were taken from, and I had done NOTHING wrong, I would be all over the media (If I were involved in a high profile case like this)
Wonder who we will hear from first, the parent or LE?

CPS don't have to give a reason to the parent till they are subpoenaed to court. In my case the parent not allowed to see him has no idea (although they damn well should)

 

[Whisperer]

Moo.. but Sergio does very much have parts of his life that IMO he does not want exposed.. moo.. moo.. moo.. moo.. I believe this can be seen by any who care to sleuth around on Google as I did very early on.. however IMO I could find zero reason that this would have had anything whatsoever to do with Isa being missing.. I still cannot see how it would be relevant to her disappearance ..BUT THUS FAR IT IS THE ONLY THING I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DISCERN AS BEING "HIDDEN" BY THIS FAMILY..

I JUST DON'T KNOW.. THE ONLY THING I KNOW IS THAT I'M REALLY DUMBFOUNDED RIGHT NOW AND I JUST PRAY THAT WHATEVER IT IS THAT IS HAPPENING THAT IT WILL RESULT IN ISA BEING FOUND!

:bump: worthy of a bump.

 

[Pensfan]

I know that is official but having dealt (actually dealing) with CPS at the moment I call codswallop.

My grandson is in a postion at the moment where one parent has been denied any contact at all. No phone calls, no visits (it started as one half hour supervised visit per week - lasted one week). They cannot even contact me to see how he is (I am helping look after him while everything goes through the courts) CPS organized a restraining order against them so they would not be able to contact me.This is not a :moo: sadly it is a fact.

You will never read me promoting CPS. From the easiest source for me to find at this time of the morning, Wikipedia:


Georgia State Senator Nancy Schaefer published a report "The Corrupt Business of Child Protective Services" making many claims against CPS and it should be read by every parent.

Unfair judgement of families, especially those most unable to defend themselves. Without compassion, unreasonable and impossible demands that separate families and cause stress are made of parents.

Local governments accustomed to resulting flow of taxpayer dollars to balance growing budgets routinely ignore charges against Child Protective Services. Funding continues as long as children are out of their home, adoption bonuses are also available, but no incentive remains to return children home. On top of $4000–$6000 per child is a multiplying factor based on the percentage that a state exceeds its baseline adoption goal.

Bonuses and incentives cause employees to work diligently to exploit children for government money while parents are charged for the cost of their care. Fraud, fabrication, withholding, and destroying of evidence, unnecessary termination of parental rights, and double dipping are common while confidentiality clause is used to protect the beneficiaries.

Beneficiaries include state employees, lawyers, court investigators, guardian ad litems, court personnel, judges, psychologists, psychiatrists, counselors, caseworkers, therapists, foster parents, adoptive parents, and others. Incentives to put children on more drugs per day involve additional funds and Medicaid.

Parents are sometimes pressured by CPS agents to divorce their spouse in order to see their children again. Parental cooperation is often interpreted as guilt, and parents separated from their children are treated as criminals often without access to visit or even see their children.

Child protective services is a wasteful bureaucracy with no clear leader and unclear policies. State legislators are generally powerless to correct the federally mandated system.

Tragedies happen where children die in CPS custody due to neglect or abuse while parents are trying hard to regain custody of their children. Such tragedies should never happen.

While CPS claims relatives are contacted, there are very many cases that proves false, where grandparents and other relatives attempt to get custody and are denied. Parents and grandparents lose all connections to their heirs while children lose their heritage.

The California Little Hoover Commission Report in 2003 reported that 30% to 70% of the children in California group homes neither belong there nor should have been removed from their own homes.

Children are in far greater danger in CPS custody today than in imperfect homes. The National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect reported in 1998 that six times as many children died in foster care than in the general public. Children removed to official “safety” are far more likely to suffer sexual molestation and other abuse than in the general population.

 

[Shelby2]

3:31 AM here!

 

[mahoolin]

Do you all realize there are about 30 Sleuthers on this thread right now... in the middle of the night?
It is 12:30 a.m. for me.... so that makes it 2:30 a.m. for a lot of you?

Are we dedicated or what!?! :what:

3:30 here - all wound up, think I'm going to crack open my bottle of Kahlua - you've all inspired me.... :toast:

Where is Isabel??
lease:

 

[GutFeeling!]

Do you all realize there are about 30 Sleuthers on this thread right now... in the middle of the night?
It is 12:30 a.m. for me.... so that makes it 2:30 a.m. for a lot of you?

Are we dedicated or what!?! :what:

Dedicated is a nice way of putting it LOL friday night and we are here ... I feel the "L" popping up on my forehead lol

 

[Shelby2]

CPS don't have to give a reason to the parent till they are subpoenaed to court. In my case the parent not allowed to see him has no idea (although they damn well should)

OK, thanks. When I read that CPS, LE and the parents had a meeting I thought maybe it was talked about.

 

[Shelby2]

Dedicated is a nice way of putting it LOL friday night and we are here ... I feel the "L" popping up on my forehead lol

And I keep checking for 'new' news...doubt there will be any at this hour.
But just in case...

I really want to know what happened to her. I mean, I know we all do.

 

[mahoolin]

Dedicated is a nice way of putting it LOL friday night and we are here ... I feel the "L" popping up on my forehead lol

BBM
I was always taught that people out this time of the night were up to NO GOOD.....

Darn
:gum:
:floorlaugh:

 

[Shelby2]

BBM
I was always taught that people out this time of the night were up to NO GOOD.....

Darn
:gum:

Well who knows what we're also doing while posting on this thread LOL

Except me I'm just sitting here very innocently. Too tired to be bad.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Maybe Im just jaded... but, TO ME, it seemed Sergio was 'performing' and I dont just mean a song performance. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I just got the feeling he was enjoying showing off his talent and the attention. I realize that there is no 'set' way for a parent to act when their child is missing, but there is no way I could (*or would even want to*) sing for an audience, not knowing where my child was. I read on Becky's FB page where she had posted a few months ago they werent particularly religous.. so I dont think "Ava Maria" was something that Sergio knew by heart, which means he had to practice the song. Which was time not spent looking for his daughter. He also coached the benefit little league games, again, time he could have been looking for his daughter.

Even if it was fruitless and I was just wandering, I would be combing every inch of Tucson I could.. and begging for my child to anyone that would listen.. Or I'd be in a rubber room somewhere.. but there is absolutely no way I could have a song or a game on my mind. I just couldnt function.

Fair points for sure but he DID know Ave Maria by heart I do not know as single Catholic who doesnt, its not a difficult song and it is a huge of our Catholic culture, I am also not particularly religious but I do identify as a Catholic, as they do, and things like the Ave Maria, Hail Mary, Lords Prayer etc, is second nature to us regardless is we regularly attend church or not, that stuff is drilled in to our heads as kids and I am certain his parents are traditional Catholic people. I go to the same Church they do, I seen them there over the years but I never knew them its a huge church.

 

[Shelby2]

People in your community will probably be so upset tomorrow Paximus..

 

[Pensfan]

Just saying........

The U.S. Department of Justice found that 61% of domestic violence offenders also have substance abuse problems.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...SNZEx-&sig=AHIEtbQJDJshSmZXvNTzeQkryGn7v352eA

A 1994 study conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice on murder in families found that more than half of defendants accused of murdering their spouses had been drinking alcohol at the time of the incident.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...n4eUY4&sig=AHIEtbQQb2HHKyacX8eN3E_PdlSGO1sJ6A

Children of substance abusing parents are more likely to experience physical, sexual, or emotional abuse than children in non- substance abusing households.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...JR5W5t&sig=AHIEtbTQpMuI5_RUGdFjZUKtmB-majxong

A survey of public child welfare agencies conducted by the National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse found that as many as 80% of child abuse cases are associated with the use of alcohol and other drugs.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=154871

 

[Shelby2]

I wonder what LE learned and who they learned it from. Did anything else change this week besides the boys returning to school? Or did they return to school?

 

[SUNchips]

RUMORS that the boys were removed from S's care, staying with B. I have searched his name on google and haven't found anything strange at all. I'm really curious what that is about?

 

[GutFeeling!]

Pensfan? I am not complaining about CPS, they have actually been wonderful to me and the parent that didn't screw up. the one that did - well if it were my child you all would have discussed it or be discussing it on another thread - I can still dig a hole lol

I found it extremely add they they gave that information out though. I have dealt with CPS from a media stand point and they give out very little, usually no ore than yes we are involved and occasionally they will say there have been dealings with a family before but (usually) totally unrelated.

In my grandsons case I personally think CPS are doing the right thing (not that I have any say in anything at all - I am just nan) I think it is sad but only because I would want him to have both parents in his life. CPS have also stopped the other grandparent from contacting me, visits etc

I want what is happening to happen, I just can't imagine not being able to see my child ever, and after the court case, at best, probably supervised visits for years.

I would love to be clearer and if I am driving you nuts by talking around things I don't mind telling anyone privately. I know for a fact that my facebook is looked at and anything else - I can't see I am doing anything wrong (no one has ever said I can't say a word) I just don't want crap thrown in the other parents face in a court room.

As for CPS meeting with the police first, that is usually how CPS do get involved. Complaints are made to the police and they call in CPS with the details and CPS makes the call from there.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Limited available court documents for the parents at the moment. No error messages tg.

Go TPD! Find Isabel!

http://www.agave.cosc.pima.gov/PublicDocs/

They removed some docs though. No custody etc...just older records.

 

[Whisperer]

I know, I don't see anything on Google...the link may have started there and took the person to another type of site. As of now, google is flooded with the case, so I would expect nothing to be found there anymore.

 

[Whisperer]

Limited available court documents for the parents at the moment. No error messages tg.

Go TPD! Find Isabel!

http://www.agave.cosc.pima.gov/PublicDocs/

Thanks, Doc...I know how good you are at records..

 

[Shelby2]

No, I know that's how CPS usually gets involved, but this is an ongoing case and it seems like the boys removal is directly related to this case. The article says LE and CPS are "jointly investigating"..KWIM?
I don't think CPS released this, it was TPD.