AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

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Some of the reasons why Arizona CPS can step in and remove a parent.

17.
The physical or mental health or mental limitations of caregiver or other person living in or having access to the home places the child in immediate danger.

Caregiver's disorders reduce their ability to control their behavior in ways that threaten safety.

Caregiver is emotionally immobilized (chronically or situationally) and can not control his/her behavior in ways that threaten safety.

Caregiver is delusional; experiencing hallucinations.

Caregiver is so depressed that he/she is not functionally able to meet basic needs of the child.

Caregiver's intellectual incapacity affects judgment/knowledge in ways that prevent providing adequate basic care.


When Implementing and Monitoring the Safety Plan

After the Safety Plan has been developed, it must be implemented and monitored to ensure that all safety actions fully control the identified safety threat(s).

The CPS Specialist who is responsible for implementing the Safety Plan must explain the Plan to the family and, whenever the family has an active role in carrying out the Plan, obtain the family's commitment to cooperate and participate in carrying out the Plan. The CPS Specialist must discuss (and provide a copy of) the Safety Plan with the monitor, if applicable.

Under no circumstance is a Safety Plan to serve as the solution to a long-term problem. Every Safety Plan must be re-evaluated to ensure that the safety actions continue to control the identified safety threat(s). Failure to carry out the Safety Plan should result in a reassessment of child safety and possible protective custody and/or consultation with the Attorney General's Office regarding the need to file a dependency petition.


https://extranet.azdes.gov/dcyfpolicy/Exhibits/Exhibit_5_Child_Safety_Assessment_Protocol.htm
Number 17 on that list is not the only reason that CPS can immediately remove children. IMO, CPS has very little oversight and judges usually do whatever CPS wants. A CPS social worker can take your children for a minimum of 3 days (until the first hearing) if you look sideways at the social worker. Parents are considered guilty until the parent proves they are innocent.

In my state CPS will remove a toddler if this child accidentally escapes once from the front door and is witnessed outside unattended (Google it). CPS can remove a child if mom ate a poppyseed bagel and her drug screen shows minuscule opioids. (Google this case. Yes, the parents are suing.) CPS can take a child if they come to the home to do a welfare check and the parent refuses to let them interview the child.

I could, sadly, go on and on.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse
 
Some of the other reasons listed in this list include threats being made to a child, and sexual abuse of a child...really, this could be a lot of things in this case, but it had to be a big one, IMO, to disallow ANY type of contact...

Cluciano,
Yes,you are right... CPS takes the stance that parent/child bonds are to be maintained whenever possible. They ALMOST NEVER issue no contact orders, in my experience. A parent has to cause serious harm to a kid for a no contact order...MOO

In real life, domestic violence and drinking are just not the types of issues that get a no contact order. I have taken children to visit a parent in jail.After that parent beat their other parent. CPS does not issue no contact orders lightly, because they can be extremely traumatizing to kids...

Did SC go along with this ? Or has he hired an attorney ? Knowing that would tell us a lot...MOO

Remember what Pacheco said : " Things are not always what they seem to be " ?
 
Just a few observations I have made from reading up on everything... First off it's apparent from SC's behavior there is something up in his fake emotions. There was a comment from uncle/cousin " let the police 'do thier deal' " (that sounds like tweaker talk). The son's made mention of a "clicking" sound < possibly a butane lighter > over the night Isa went missing. Kinda makes it sound like someone was hitting a Meth pipe. There is no mention of what time SC went to bed ( Did he sleep ?? ). LE say's whoever did this covered thier tracks really well. It really sound's like SC and maybe Uncle/cousin got twacked out, did something ( who knows what ) to Isabel and then took her somewhere. ( alive-dead who knows ) but Something kinda tweakish is up here.

BBM
Sons hearing a clicking sound I believe is from the Lisa Irwin case, not this case. The boys have not been quoted as saying anything that I know of. (They may have, I just don't recall them saying anything)

ETA: Just noticed this is your first post. Welcome!
 
I'm still wondering if perhaps Sergio became suicidal - due to stress, possibly due to he and RC having a rocky marriage before all this, Isa disapoearing, and now the relationship completely broke down? Maybe he is drinking, or getting high to deal with the stress, making it worse and things got ugly.

Could be interpreted as being a threat to the children and RC, if one or more of those is true.

IMO, being depressed or drinking or even smoking weed may get a parent investigated by CPS. Possibly even get the children removed. But NO CONTACT is a whole other thing.

Not buying that poor Sergio was so distraught that his sincere heartache was the reason he was barred from all contact with those boys. He did something and it was bad. MOO

Some things you just can't spin.


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Cluciano,
Yes,you are right... CPS takes the stance that parent/child bonds are to be maintained whenever possible. They ALMOST NEVER issue no contact orders, in my experience. A parent has to cause serious harm to a kid for a no contact order...MOO

In real life, domestic violence and drinking are just not the types of issues that get a no contact order. I have taken children to visit a parent in jail.After that parent beat their other parent. CPS does not issue no contact orders lightly, because they can be extremely traumatizing to kids...

Did SC go along with this ? Or has he hired an attorney ? Knowing that would tell us a lot...MOO

Remember what Pacheco said : " Things are not always what they seem to be " ?
BBM
I have to respectfully disagree. Research where CPS's funds are derived. The county receives federal funds for every child CPS places in foster care. In many counties, CPS is a money making industry.

&#8226; that poor parents often times are targeted to lose their children because they do not have the where-with-all to hire lawyers and fight the system. Being poor does not mean you are not a good parent or that you do not love your child, or that your child should be removed and placed with strangers;
&#8226; that all parents are capable of making mistakes and that making a mistake does not mean your children are always to be removed from the home. Even if the home is not perfect, it is home; and that&#8217;s where a child is the safest and where he or she wants to be, with family;
&#8226; that parenting classes, anger management classes, counseling referrals, therapy classes and on and on are demanded of parents with no compassion by the system even while they are at work and while their children are separated from them. This can take months or even years and it emotionally devastates both children and parents. Parents are victimized by &#8220;the system&#8221; that makes a profit for holding children longer and &#8220;bonuses&#8221; for not returning children;
&#8226; that caseworkers and social workers are oftentimes guilty of fraud. They withhold evidence. They fabricate evidence and they seek to terminate parental rights. However, when charges are made against them, the charges are ignored;
&#8226; that the separation of families is growing as a business because local governments have grown accustomed to having taxpayer dollars to balance their ever-expanding budgets;
&#8226; that Child Protective Service and Juvenile Court can always hide behind a confidentiality clause in order to protect their decisions and keep the funds flowing. There should be open records and &#8220;court watches&#8221;! Look who is being paid!
There are state employees, lawyers, court investigators, court personnel, and judges. There are psychologists, and psychiatrists, counselors, caseworkers, therapists, foster parents, adoptive parents, and on and on. All are looking to the children in state custody to provide job security. Parents do not realize that social workers are the glue that holds &#8220;the system&#8221; together that funds the court, the child&#8217;s attorney, and the multiple other jobs including DFCS&#8217;s attorney.
&#8226; that The Adoption and the Safe Families Act, set in motion by President Bill Clinton, offered cash &#8220;bonuses&#8221; to the states for every child they adopted out of foster care. In order to receive the &#8220;adoption incentive bonuses&#8221; local child protective services need more children. They must have merchandise (children) that sell and you must have plenty of them so the buyer can choose. Some counties are known to give a $4,000 bonus for each child adopted and an additional $2,000 for a &#8220;special needs&#8221; child. Employees work to keep the federal dollars flowing;
&#8226; that there is double dipping. The funding continues as long as the child is out of the home. When a child in foster care is placed with a new family then &#8220;adoption bonus funds&#8221; are available. When a child is placed in a mental health facility and is on 16 drugs per day, like two children of a constituent of mine, more funds are involved;
&#8226; that there are no financial resources and no real drive to unite a family and help keep them together;
&#8226; that the incentive for social workers to return children to their parents quickly after taking them has disappeared and who in protective services will step up to the plate and say, &#8220;This must end! No one, because they are all in the system together and a system with no leader and no clear policies will always fail the children. Look at the waste in government that is forced upon the tax payer;
&#8226; that the &#8220;Policy Manuel&#8221; is considered &#8220;the last word&#8221; for DFCS. However, it is too long, too confusing, poorly written and does not take the law into consideration;
&#8226; that if the lives of children were improved by removing them from their homes, there might be a greater need for protective services, but today all children are not always safer. Children, of whom I am aware, have been raped and impregnated in foster care and the head of a Foster Parents Association in my District was recently arrested because of child molestation;
&#8226; that some parents are even told if they want to see their children or grandchildren, they must divorce their spouse. Many, who are under privileged, feeling they have no option, will divorce and
then just continue to live together. This is an anti-family policy, but parents will do anything to get their children home with them.
&#8226; fathers, (non-custodial parents) I must add, are oftentimes treated as criminals without access to their own children and have child support payments strangling the very life out of them;
&#8226; that the Foster Parents Bill of Rights does not bring out that a foster parent is there only to care for a child until the child can be returned home. Many Foster Parents today use the Foster Parent Bill of Rights to hire a lawyer and seek to adopt the child from the real parents, who are desperately trying to get their child home and out of the system;
&#8226; that tax dollars are being used to keep this gigantic system afloat, yet the victims, parents, grandparents, guardians and especially the children, are charged for the system&#8217;s services.
&#8226; that grandparents have called from all over the State of Georgia trying to get custody of their grandchildren. DFCS claims relatives are contacted, but there are cases that prove differently. Grandparents who lose their grandchildren to strangers have lost their own flesh and blood. The children lose their family heritage and grandparents, and parents too, lose all connections to their heirs.
&#8226; that The National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect in 1998 reported that six times as many children died in foster care than in the general public and that once removed to official &#8220;safety&#8221;, these children are far more likely to suffer abuse, including sexual molestation than in the general population.
&#8226; That according to the California Little Hoover Commission Report in 2003, 30% to 70% of the children in California group homes do not belong there and should not have been removed from their homes.
http://www.nccr.info/attachments/600_The Corrupt Business Of Child Protective Services.pdf
 
does your brother have any theories?

Haven't talked with him since this weekend's stuff...he has fond memories of Sergio, playing at his house,etc...one of his friends who is still I the old neighborhood says that he would see Sergio when they both picked up their kids together, meaning the Celis boys...this was at Rogers Elementary, neighborhood school which was closed in the last couple or three years.
 
okay, so Sergio seemed kind of strange, I get that, but I am still not so sure this has to do with Isa missing in a direct way. I am wondering if it was something else that caused this action to be taken.
This is just a wild theory of mine, not meant to offend at all, but I would not be shocked if Sergio had had an inappropriate situation with a minor child (male), maybe his son's age, friends of his son, or have been in possession of *advertiser censored* depicting teen or very young adult boys/men...
which is bad, but not the same thing as killing your daughter. He has not been named as the main POI, not been arrested, no mention that RC is helping investigators build a case against him... it is within the realm of possibility that the thing that makes him unsafe around his sons is not a thing that makes him guilty of Isa's disappearance.

marazul. Id be willing to make a good sized wager that it is something very much of this vein that's occurred. Moo.. but say for instance computer forensics turned up "questionable" material.. tho not necessarily actual underage males...so it wouldn't necessarily constitute child *advertiser censored*.. or it may even be in the process of further testing to ensure none of the images ddepict underage..therefore child *advertiser censored*.. and while they continue further analyzing the age of the males in the images/video they have of course restricted all access to the boys.. moo. And I believe that if its just as I believe it to be its just young adult males(atleast I'm praying it is) and that it will result in as I've stated many times prior yes.. something Sergio wanted kept hidden.. but its in no way involved in isa's disappearance.. moo. Moo.
 
Just a few observations I have made from reading up on everything... First off it's apparent from SC's behavior there is something up in his fake emotions. There was a comment from uncle/cousin " let the police 'do thier deal' " (that sounds like tweaker talk). The son's made mention of a "clicking" sound < possibly a butane lighter > over the night Isa went missing. Kinda makes it sound like someone was hitting a Meth pipe. There is no mention of what time SC went to bed ( Did he sleep ?? ). LE say's whoever did this covered thier tracks really well. It really sound's like SC and maybe Uncle/cousin got twacked out, did something ( who knows what ) to Isabel and then took her somewhere. ( alive-dead who knows ) but Something kinda tweakish is up here.

I've never heard that. Where was that said?

I know in the Irwin case the boys said they heard something the night Lisa went missing.
 
I would kind of like to see becky's FB page but I swore I would never do FB, decisions decisions, nah I dont think I will sell myself to the dark side lol.
 
Maybe he IS in a hospital and we don know. Or under a doctors care. Wonder if we would know if he was, given medical privacy.

Which brings me to also wonder why none of the press Have mentioned either RC or SC being out and about, or leaving the house, or any sightings of any of them at all, since this news broke. Are they all holed up somewhere? How did SC get booted out, without anyone noticing?

:waitasec:

Didn't SC sing Ava Maria last week for a fundraiser and both he and BC were dressed all in purple for Isa?

And SC coached a fundraiser ball game, I thought I read here.

They have been out and about raising cash. They just haven't answer simple questions. MOO


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it was in this thread mentioned by someone else... maybe it was in another case but i'm sure I read it in this thread.
 
Didn't SC sing Ava Maria last week for a fundraiser and both he and BC were dressed all in purple for Isa?

And SC coached a fundraiser ball game, I thought I read here.

They have been out and about raising cash. They just haven't answer simple questions. MOO


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I said "seen since this news broke"

"News" = the news that one parent left.
 
Sorry clicking sound came from the Irwin case which is being discussed in posts earlier.. please lets not start this growing legs and taking off as some fact.. no clicking noises heard in the celis home that is info from the Irwin case
 
still sounds like there is a drug connection with the behavior exhibited and some of the verbage used by uncle/cousin and SC. " Let the Police 'do thier deal' "... the cleanup and staging... still like to know when and IF SC went to bed that night ???
Too many holes but im sure there are plenty of donuts.
 
Heads up! New thread coming. I'll be back in a few minutes with the link.
 
I just can't see how SC isn't allowed around his kids, or even to talk to his kids, over marriage problems or a breakdown. I've seen some pretty rough people able to have supervised visits with their children. People who are addicts, who have been abusive...heck, just last year my sister got a restraining order against her husband and in that same hearing, right after the judge said she believed he was a threat, she believed my sister that he held a gun to her head - she gave him visitation rights (not supervised) with their 2 year old.

CPS must believe that SC is an actual threat to his children. The question is why? Did they find child *advertiser censored* in his possession? Did he make some sort of statement that alerted LE? Did the kids say something about SC? I

It sure happened to one of my friends who was/is a wonderful mother but when one of her son's died she became very depressed and made comments that she just wanted to end her life. She had three other children and DFS removed her from her own home and she had to move in with her mother. Her husband cared for their children during the time she was gone.

DFC told her she would have to accept therapy and as soon as a psyche doctor deemed her fit and no longer severely depressed or suicidal she could be reunited with her family.

It took about three months of extensive therapy and medication to overcome it.

She could have no contact whatsoever with her children. DFS was very worried due to her depression that she would highly upset the children if she talked about death or dying. They just did not want to take the chance because the three other children were going through their own grieving with losing their brother.

IMO
 
There are no drugs, drug debts or cartels involved my friends, the telltale signs are not there with these people, they just arent. It is something else.
 
I would kind of like to see becky's FB page but I swore I would never do FB, decisions decisions, nah I dont think I will sell myself to the dark side lol.

It's not that interesting...there are only two things of real interest...around 10/9 she says her youngest son and Isa went to church and it felt good...this apparently wasn't a normal occurrence. I think something might have been happening in their life around that time. The other is a family picture she just posted today (kind of an odd time to post on fb) but maybe she was showing a sign of strength to her side of the family. I think it was a four generations picture. isa, mom, grandma, great grandma.
 
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