AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #13

[Zuckerschnecke]

Wow.. it really surprises me that so many people trust that LE is working to help them as opposed to just "working". They want to be productive and to advance their own careers just like the rest of us. Cops are not 'commended" for all the cases they work and the people they help.. they are "commended" for finding the "perpetrator" and "solving" the case. People are people and if a person working on a case doesn't take a "liking" to the parents of a missing child.... who has the "upper hand"? Well.... to each their own I guess. I will definitely raise my child to have a healthy respect for Law enforcement but to have a healthier respect for protecting themselves.

Very well said. I might have not been so polite.

An interesting case on police interrogations: STEPHANIE CROWE, from Escondido, CA

 

[Whisperer]

Are the family members back in the home or still in the hotel?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Well now... sometimes those sites put groups of peeps together who are not really related...MOO But,this could be interesting...MOO

BINGO! I don't bother looking at any of those "people search" websites since I discovered that I have been associated with another individual who has my identical (very common) maiden name and birthdate but is in no way related to me or my husband of nearly 41 years. This individual was born in a different state than me and has always lived in another state.

Evidently, this person has incurred significant debt over the years, and, based on those "people searches", DH and I have been contacted by several debt-collection agencies who threaten us due to unpaid bills and over-extended credit card accounts. We have had to prove more than once that we have no affiliation with this person (or her spouse), and the offending agencies are forced to admit that they "have the wrong parties".

 

[johnQpublic]

Okay, I researched it. There are federal laws the states have to follow. They do need probable cause and a warrant to place a bug. http://books.google.com/books?id=MS...Aw#v=onepage&q=bugging probable cause&f=false

Read section C, (1), (2), (3) and (4) of the capsule summary.

Better check yur Patriot Act and some of the Revisions on Wire Taps and Phone Records... yeah, LE can tap a phone and pull phone records to gain some traction on a case but the fruit of those taps may not be admissable in court... keep in mind there are laws but there are also revisions and other laws which counteract laws and create loopholes for investigations. Another thing to remember is this is Arizona and I know for a fact they take advantage of loopholes for intel. I worked for A Communications Company in Phoenix for years and I have placed loopbacks and wiretaps for LE WITHOUT warrent.

 

[gitana1]

Are the family members back in the home or still in the hotel?

The mom, I think, is with relatives and her kids, elsewhere.

Better check yur Patriot Act and some of the Revisions on Wire Taps and Phone Records... yeah, LE can tap a phone and pull phone records to gain some traction on a case but the fruit of those taps may not be admissable in court... keep in mind there are laws but there are also revisions and other laws which counteract laws and create loopholes for investigations. Another thing to remember is this is Arizona and I know for a fact they take advantage of loopholes for intel. I worked for A Communications Company in Phoenix for years and I have placed loopbacks and wiretaps for LE WITHOUT warrent.

Boy, you're right! I didn't think about the Patriot Act. It is really frightening to me.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I last saw this thread at about 1PM, my time. DD called in from far away to wish the tidings of the day and DS who lives locally came by with the gift of a replacement fan for our breezeway. The real gift is that he installed it as well. Lord, I love those kids and their spouses! But my education here at WS has helped me understand that I am certainly one of the blessed.

While it has been a special and humbling day for me with all of the hoopla from my children the back of my mind was reflecting on this discordant day for the Celis family.

May God bless the innocents and reveal the truth. I just feel bad for all of them.

Am way behind and eager to read the 8 pages that have perhaps revealed more of the truth in this tragedy.

We do all agree that no matter how anything comes to light, it will be a tragedy, right?

Will try to get caught up now. Love you guys!

 

[Knox]

♥ ♥ ♥ Happy Mother's Day, to all the Mom's here at WS ♥ ♥ ♥

 

[johnQpublic]

Another thing people really don't think about with 'wiretaping' is that since we also now have Digital Phone's pulling audio and phone records is also able to be done after the fact. Meaning they have the technology to pull a call and text messages that have already taken place without needing to hookup any special equipment to the customers line. Also, it's been known to happen in Arizona where they will get a communications contractor to 'listen in' on a line for "quality control" and in doing so if they happen to overhear something then they can offer the information to LE as a TO WIT as a telecom operator. It might sound alittle like dirty play but it's perfectly legal.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Very well said and I agree. I think LE said today that this CPS action is not to be intended as them casting suspicion on anyone in particular so I am sticking by my original belief that Sergio is likely not handling the stress well and could be having trouble dealing with his emotions and therefore acting out towards the boys in such a way that CPS became concerned and needed to get him away so he could clear his head and deal with his problems.


I may be wrong but until I see evidence that he is a gay degenerate gambler hanging out with human traffickers and cartel drug dealers I will with hold further judgment.

Regarding the last sentence of the above post I just want to say that I, in no way whatsoever view anyone's sexual preference as a negative AT ALL(no matter if hetero.. Or if they prefer Martians rather than humans.. Whatever anyone's preference).. I am fairly certain that PAX doesn't either(tho im not attempting to speak for anyone but myself)..I want to personally make the statement that as far as the above last sentence it could easily be seen as a "negative" with it being lumped into the various other negative descriptors(ie.degenerate,gambler, who hangs with human traffickers).. PAX I know you are saying you don't believe ANY OF THOSE DESCRIPTORS you mention are accurate re:Sergio.. But I just feel that sexual preference(specifically gay in this scenario) doesn't even belong to be linked within those other very, extremely negative descriptors..Jmo..

I realize that sexual preference is a sensitive subject for many and tho, IMO we should not be shamed into shying away from discussing something such as sexual preference.. Nonetheless the fact that there is prejudice in this evil azz world re:some people's sexual preference I feel the need to ensure that when I am personally discussing it in a case such as we are here that I want NO NEGATIVITY EVEN ASSOCIATED WITH SEXUAL PREFERENCE DISCUSSION COMING FROM ME AT ALL.. I feel very strongly about this issue and I am aware of the prejudice and just how very detrimental it is to the human spirit, period.. No matter what preference you may have.. And I personally do not ever in any way want to be associated with gay being negative, being lumped into a negative category, or any other negative connotations or insinuations..

Again I believe we should be able to discuss this like adults, because I personally believe it may be a relevant factor in this case.. That said while I do not believe it would have any bearing whatsoever in Isa's disappearance.. But I do feel strongly that it could very much be relevant as to relating to the disconnect btwn BC/SC.. The overall hidden/secretive undertones some have picked up on.. And setting off some hinky meters..

But most important to me personally is that I do not want to offend, hurt, or in any way cause negative feelings for anyone who may misconstrue any of the discussion regarding sexual preference, specifically gay..and that's why I felt it necessary to state such as well as ensure that NO ONE POSSIBLY MISCONSTRUED that my opinion being that SC may/may not be gay DOES NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM MEAN THAT I BELIEVE THE OTHER NEGATIVE DESCRIPTORS THAT WERE LUMPED IN WITH GAY IN THE ABOVE POST.. Jmo and hopefully I was able to make my opinion clear and easily understandable.. Because as most know sometimes I defeat the entire purpose I'm attempting to make by not being able to successfully put into words what is in my heart and mind:blushing:




____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[Micheline]

I am very surprised to hear SC and RC are not living together at this moment.

When looking at the video of them together giving an interview to me it was very obvious that Sergio is passionately in love with his wife (the way he looks at her the entire time).
Rebecca is somewhat distant but all the time in agreement with Sergio, and they talk and give the interview very synchronized, that is not something one can do without being close.
I find it very hard to believe DV going on in the Celis home.

 

[GracieLu]

Wow. Thank you for the information. I have been reading up on the case. So, it looks like either the dad aided the "kidnapping" of his daughter, or sold her to fellow pervs for a night of child rape that "went too far" ending in her death. Or, perhaps Murphy felt it would be okay to take the child because he knew the father was a pedophile, having likely viewed child *advertiser censored* at the bar they worked at together, and thought, "Well, her dad's already probably molesting her so, why not?"

I had never heard about the case before. But, I got sucked in and now I wish I hadn't!!



Great question and I do not know the answer. I will ask my law partner (he does criminal law).



No. A voluntary safety plan is not legally binding.



And here's the problem. Florida, which has some of the toughest laws in the nation, gave him only a year for having child *advertiser censored* depicting the rape of small children? He violates his probation (BTW, it was for visiting a relative with a child present, not for downloading more child *advertiser censored*) and he gets only an additional 3 years? WTH!!!!!?????!!!!! I'm sorry, a person who downloads child *advertiser censored* and it is found not to be some weird mistake or someone else using your computer, all of which can be deduced by how much *advertiser censored* was downloaded and whether it was on various dates, log in information (any passwords needed?), what time the *advertiser censored* was downloaded and work schedules, etc., then that person should get at least 10 years, IMO.



This has been my point forever. I am an attorney. If my child went missing, even knowing everything I know about false charges, pressure tactics, misinterpretations of evidence, etc., etc., no way would I be getting an attorney. As I have said in the past, as an attorney, I would counsel my clients to shut up, retain counsel and answer nothing. Because my job as a lawyer is to protect my client's rights.

But as a parent, my job is to protect my child, to live and die for her. And anyone who is worried about their own rights being violated and some possibility of a future case against them, after the worst thing ever already happened - the disappearance of their child - is either guilty as sin or never really loved their child to begin with.

The bottom line is attorneys filter the investigation when it comes to what their clients state or are subjected to. They would never authorize a LDT. I would jump to do one if my baby went missing, despite the fact that they aren't always accurate. They would never authorize unfettered questioning. They usually request that questions are given to them in written form. That's what I have done with clients of mine who are subject to CPS investigations. But I would want no filters in place as the parent of a missing baby. I would want to fully assist LE, in every way possible, to figure out what happened. Of course, if I wasn't in a hospital being sedated, I would probably be camping on their doorstep wailing for help to find my kid.

Now let me qualify all that. If, after a month or more went by with no progress, and I saw that LE was unreasonably focusing on me to the exclusion of other avenues that would help find my kid, I would hire an attorney to pressure LE to do their jobs correctly and to focus attention where it should go. Their work would likely entail focused press conferences with me, to discuss the faulty focus, PR to get out the story, my cooperation and LE's narrow investigation, etc.

But, IMO, parents who can right away think about hiring counsel, after hearing the most devastating news a parent could hear besides that their child is dead, raise an immediate red flag to me. A desperate parent is not going to be thinking about their constitutional rights. They are going to be clawing to get their child back in their arms. :moo:

Bolded by me... Not sure if I agree 100% about "being guilty as sin or not really loving their child in the first place," but will say with 100% certainty, I too love my child to the ends of the earth and if she were abducted, the last thing I would care about was myself! My hinky meter goes off as well - think about it, your child has been abducted, god knows what is happening to her/him, and your worried about an attorney to clear your name - i don't buy it for one second! No attorneys for me and I would be on every show available to beg/scream for my little ones safe return. I'm not up-to-date on this thread (family wedding down south), but wondering - have the Cellis's hired an attorney?

Praying for you beautiful Isabel!

 

[Prof]

Thanks just wondering.. all too many times we've seen innocent parents being bashed for no reason but if WS said it was acceptable.. well then. I was unsure.. thanks again!
:seeya:

IDK, but it is good to err on the side of caution.
The mods asked us to be careful. The post is in thread five, I believe.

I am not sure we can post names of other innocent parties who are allegedly related only on the say so of a people search site.


For example peekyou has tens of thousands show up under just one of the family's first names, and then thousands on the last name.

]

 

[galiuro]

KOLD just had a brief interview with Becky in front of the house; she was dropping by 'to pick up a few things and to check on the house' (words of the interviewer, not Becky). She did not look to have the boys with her and would not comment on the separation or who had the boys. Supposed to be more at 10.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/...abel-celis-deals-with-tragedy-on-motherss-day

 

[johnQpublic]

Here is something else to ponder... With the confidence LE seems to exhibit pertaining to the vitality of Isabel that they are confident they still have a chance of finding Isabel Alive, It really wouldn't phase me that LE and CPS does in fact already have her in custody or protective care AND are merely working the case to unravel what happened. ( Just a hunch ) It may sound kinda weird but it is tottally possible the LEO's know exactly what's up as far as the whereabouts of Isabel but have yet to determine exactly what steps to take to ensure they not only get to the bottom of what happened but that when she goes home she is in safe hands.... IDK just something to think about.

 

[johnQpublic]

Here is something else to ponder... With the confidence LE seems to exhibit pertaining to the vitality of Isabel that they are confident they still have a chance of finding Isabel Alive, It really wouldn't phase me that LE and CPS does in fact already have her in custody or protective care AND are merely working the case to unravel what happened. ( Just a hunch ) It may sound kinda weird but it is tottally possible the LEO's know exactly what's up as far as the whereabouts of Isabel but have yet to determine exactly what steps to take to ensure they not only get to the bottom of what happened but that when she goes home she is in safe hands.... IDK just something to think about.

BC Quote to News "Just thinking of Isabel and the way she is, the presents she's given me, her drawings, just her being her you know and knowing that she'll be home soon"
......
Wow... with a statement like that, it kinda supports my hunch that LE / CPS may already have Isabel in custody.

 

[cluciano63]

Here is something else to ponder... With the confidence LE seems to exhibit pertaining to the vitality of Isabel that they are confident they still have a chance of finding Isabel Alive, It really wouldn't phase me that LE and CPS does in fact already have her in custody or protective care AND are merely working the case to unravel what happened. ( Just a hunch ) It may sound kinda weird but it is tottally possible the LEO's know exactly what's up as far as the whereabouts of Isabel but have yet to determine exactly what steps to take to ensure they not only get to the bottom of what happened but that when she goes home she is in safe hands.... IDK just something to think about.

I do not believe there is any way they have Isabel or know where she is (LE). People are giving their money, their time, may even be searching even though LE asked them not to, etc...just don't believe that at all.

In AZ LE has been pretty open about Jhyssey's case (sp) and who and what they think happened to her for a long time now.

I know you said earlier that LE there is diff. from all other places but I find it hard to believe that LE in AZ is that much different from around the country, overall, no offense. I have followed plenty of cases in AZ and learned much from the police in PC's etc...

JMO

 

[gitana1]

BC Quote to News "Just thinking of Isabel and the way she is, the presents she's given me, her drawings, just her being her you know and knowing that she'll be home soon"
......
Wow... with a statement like that, it kinda supports my hunch that LE / CPS may already have Isabel in custody.

With respect, that would never happen. This is a case with national, even international attention. They would be shouting from the rooftops if she was alive. The outcry if the government pulled a stunt like that would be incredible. It has never happened in the United States before and I don't think it's even legal.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Regarding the last sentence of the above post I just want to say that I, in no way whatsoever view anyone's sexual preference as a negative AT ALL(no matter if hetero.. Or if they prefer Martians rather than humans.. Whatever anyone's preference).. I am fairly certain that PAX doesn't either(tho im not attempting to speak for anyone but myself)..I want to personally make the statement that as far as the above last sentence it could easily be seen as a "negative" with it being lumped into the various other negative descriptors(ie.degenerate,gambler, who hangs with human traffickers).. PAX I know you are saying you don't believe ANY OF THOSE DESCRIPTORS you mention are accurate re:Sergio.. But I just feel that sexual preference(specifically gay in this scenario) doesn't even belong to be linked within those other very, extremely negative descriptors..Jmo..

I realize that sexual preference is a sensitive subject for many and tho, IMO we should not be shamed into shying away from discussing something such as sexual preference.. Nonetheless the fact that there is prejudice in this evil azz world re:some people's sexual preference I feel the need to ensure that when I am personally discussing it in a case such as we are here that I want NO NEGATIVITY EVEN ASSOCIATED WITH SEXUAL PREFERENCE DISCUSSION COMING FROM ME AT ALL.. I feel very strongly about this issue and I am aware of the prejudice and just how very detrimental it is to the human spirit, period.. No matter what preference you may have.. And I personally do not ever in any way want to be associated with gay being negative, being lumped into a negative category, or any other negative connotations or insinuations..

Again I believe we should be able to discuss this like adults, because I personally believe it may be a relevant factor in this case.. That said while I do not believe it would have any bearing whatsoever in Isa's disappearance.. But I do feel strongly that it could very much be relevant as to relating to the disconnect btwn BC/SC.. The overall hidden/secretive undertones some have picked up on.. And setting off some hinky meters..

But most important to me personally is that I do not want to offend, hurt, or in any way cause negative feelings for anyone who may misconstrue any of the discussion regarding sexual preference, specifically gay..and that's why I felt it necessary to state such as well as ensure that NO ONE POSSIBLY MISCONSTRUED that my opinion being that SC may/may not be gay DOES NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM MEAN THAT I BELIEVE THE OTHER NEGATIVE DESCRIPTORS THAT WERE LUMPED IN WITH GAY IN THE ABOVE POST.. Jmo and hopefully I was able to make my opinion clear and easily understandable.. Because as most know sometimes I defeat the entire purpose I'm attempting to make by not being able to successfully put into words what is in my heart and mind:blushing:




____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

I was merely pointing out, sacrcastically, what many others seem to think about Sergio not what I think.


I have proposed to the font Gods that they give us mere mortals a backwards slanted italics font that specifically denotes only sarcasm.

Understand your point though, not a problem my friend.

 

[johnQpublic]

yeah, but what if RC knows what's up at this point... she makes a clear statement, she does not say " hoping " she is going to come home soon she says " KNOWING that she'll be home soon. " KEY WORD " KNOWING" and like you said LE clearly said " LET US DO THE LOOKING " they made it perfectly clear that the public should NOT be out searching for her. It very well is possible that due to certain issues that Isabel is in CPS care and untill they know exactly WTF is up.. BUT either way " KNOWING " not " HOPING " is a kinda telling statement.

 

[joedotnet]

I was merely pointing out, sacrcastically, what many others seem to think about Sergio not what I think.


I have proposed to the font Gods that they give us mere mortals a backwards slanted italics font that specifically denotes only sarcasm.

Understand your point though, not a problem my friend.

from now on lets use Blue Font as the universal sarcasm forum mechanism.