AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #13

[Okay then]

Yes!

This is why i believe they seperated them so MOM will talk!

Maybe Dad is a little controlling!

Mom seems afraid to speak!

jmo

CPS is about and only about, protecting children. imo I do not see CPS playing along with the obvious ( to me, jmo) chess game between the Celises' and LE...Me thinks SC crossed a line somewhere. :moo:

 

[cluciano63]

LE has said point-blank that they do not believe the story about Ayla being kidnapped or that the adults in the home are being honest. Yet no one has been arrested. LE can't arrest someone just because they don't believe them or because they are acting suspiciously in these cases. They clearly don't believe the group in Haleigh Cumming's case either, yet none of them were charged. Unless you are prone to false confessions, I don't think most parents have to worry about being charged, if they are innocent. But they do need to do EVERYTHING possible to clear themselves in the eyes of LE, if that means multiple LD tests, whatever...JMOJMOJMOJMOJMO

I know there are some "bad" LE departments and cops, but in most cases, they really want to find out the truth.

JMO

 

[deelytful1]

The mods said several weeks ago that since LE has said that the parents are POI.s too, that they are somewhat sleuthable IIRC.

Thanks just wondering.. all too many times we've seen innocent parents being bashed for no reason but if WS said it was acceptable.. well then. I was unsure.. thanks again!
:seeya:

 

[callyn]

Did the 'thanks' button just disappear?

Yes! Yesterday my Quote button disappeared :banghead:

 

[katydid23]

*snipped*


Its hard to make that point without people coming out of the woodwork with pitchforks and torches. I agree though. I would cooperate and tell my story several times and submit to polygraph. However if LE keeps coming back asking you the same or similar questions hoping for you to slip up I would then get a lawyer.

At that point LE is not your friend they are trying to arrest you. You wont do your missing child any good from the inside of a jail cell. Unfortunately LE can be wrong. Thats why we have rights. If a society does not exercise those rights they lose them. I like rights. I am scared to death of losing any of my rights.

That being said my theory from day one was that someone visiting the family unlocked Isa's window from the inside to return at a later date and kidnap her. I am guessing they did a DNA transfer test on the window latch. Whoever took her knew she was behind that window.

You guys are reading too much into the CPS action in the case. CPS did nothing in prior cases and got egg on its face. Id be proactive. However that order has to be signed by a judge so some form of evidence was presented to the judge to seclude those kids.

So until we see something I would say assumptions based on CPS is only going to lead you down the wrong road. Hope that helps.

You are right on with what I was trying to say earlier, in terms of getting an attorney. There is no need to IMMEDIATELY get representation. And it is vital that everyone involved cooperates completely, answers all questions fully, several times, in order to get the investigation going.

But at some point, if the investigation seems stalled on the family, and they feel that they are being focused on as the prime suspects, they should absolutely get legal help. One of the things that a good defense attorney can do is help LE see why you are not the guilty party. It is better for them to go and show receipts and evidence of your alibi at that point, because otherwise you may end up saying things awkwardly or innocently, that paint the wrong picture. I have seen it happen. My dad got many truly innocent people out of legal jams over the years.

 

[deelytful1]

*snipped*


Its hard to make that point without people coming out of the woodwork with pitchforks and torches. I agree though. I would cooperate and tell my story several times and submit to polygraph. However if LE keeps coming back asking you the same or similar questions hoping for you to slip up I would then get a lawyer.

At that point LE is not your friend they are trying to arrest you. You wont do your missing child any good from the inside of a jail cell. Unfortunately LE can be wrong. Thats why we have rights. If a society does not exercise those rights they lose them. I like rights. I am scared to death of losing any of my rights.

That being said my theory from day one was that someone visiting the family unlocked Isa's window from the inside to return at a later date and kidnap her. I am guessing they did a DNA transfer test on the window latch. Whoever took her knew she was behind that window.

You guys are reading too much into the CPS action in the case. CPS did nothing in prior cases and got egg on its face. Id be proactive. However that order has to be signed by a judge so some form of evidence was presented to the judge to seclude those kids.

So until we see something I would say assumptions based on CPS is only going to lead you down the wrong road. Hope that helps.

Well said! (and If I had a "Thank You" button i would thank you...) hahaha.. but I'm sure is tired of hearing that line by now!!

 

[Eileen730]

But,if it is a revenge issue,and they either killed or kidnapped Isabel, might they not kill the other kids whether they are with SC or not ? I mean,wouldn't they be in danger no matter what. And why would he not be allowed to have any contact whatsoever ? It's just puzzling...MOO

Because Isabel has the same name as the person that murdered NR!

They were not after the other children!

They were after Isabel Celis!



I just thought it very interesting!

JMO

 

[escadoodle]

Is LE allowed to "bug" a home without the owners consent? Could they have picked up something that way? Like, SC coaching, coercing, or even threatening the boys? Or has this already been discussed....

 

[Eileen730]

But,if it is a revenge issue,and they either killed or kidnapped Isabel, might they not kill the other kids whether they are with SC or not ? I mean,wouldn't they be in danger no matter what. And why would he not be allowed to have any contact whatsoever ? It's just puzzling...MOO

Because Isabel has the same name as the person that murdered NR!

They were not after the other children!

They were after Isabel Celis!




I just thought it very interesting!

LOL probably nothing but then again it could be something!
JMO

 

[katydid23]

Part 2, of what I was trying to say about defense attorneys:

They have investigators that will try and find evidence that will clear you of the crime. As opposed to the homicide investigators, who sometimes get tunnel vision and try to show that you are the guilty party. So if you are claiming that you went shopping at the key time of the alleged crime, it behooves you to have your own investigators trying to prove that for you, as they may look harder and longer for surveillance footage to clear you.

 

[gitana1]

OK i found this and i do think im on to something here!

One of the suspects said she was killed because she was seeking the return of a loan from Isabel Celis.Celis, 51, of Paso Robles; her son, Miguel Celis, 29, of Lost Hills; and Javier Chavez, 24, of Paso Robles, have been charged with murder in the case

http://archive.newtimesslo.com/archive/2003-12-10/whatsnews/index.html

Snipped for space. Good sleuthing! Interesting connections you found.

 

[gitana1]

Is LE allowed to "bug" a home without the owners consent? Could they have picked up something that way? Like, SC coaching, coercing, or even threatening the boys? Or has this already been discussed....

I think they can, with probable cause. I'm off to research it.

 

[johnQpublic]

Just got done reading thru much of the thread catching up on the day on here... A few things I notice about this case is there has been some 'twist' of assumption and facts. As of the moment there is no LE Fact statement of who actually has custody, what we have is the media's calculated opinion of fact ( usless there has been a positive sighting of boys with RC ). Also there is this assumption that LE needs parental concent to speak to the minor in AZ.... Not so, LE in AZ doe's not need parental consent.. they only need a child advocate to supervise or issue permission however they usually 'ask' (more or less as a retorical question). One thing most everyone in here doe's not understand... This case is in ARIZONA not Florida, New York or California IT'S ARIZONA. Arizona has a WAY DIFFERENT method of Law Enforcement than ANY other state, They have more protective measures and secondary double fail safes in place to prevent mistakes and misjudgements. They also have more regulations in place to protect victims rights. In my experiance dealing with Arizona LE is that they are perhaps one of the more professional LE agency's in the country, they don't make guess's and they collect facts before jumping on anything BUT they do cover all the bases from many angles and are very careful what they release to the public and sometimes release MISinformation to draw perps out... Look back to the Baseline Rapist / Serial Killer in Phoenix. They put out a great deal of MISinformation to help smoke out the perp AND they caught him. Just my observational opinion from living in Phoenix and dealing with LE in AZ on many things from working as a CI.

 

[Eileen730]

Snipped for space. Good sleuthing! Interesting connections you found.

thanks!

 

[deelytful1]

Part 2, of what I was trying to say about defense attorneys:

They have investigators that will try and find evidence that will clear you of the crime. As opposed to the homicide investigators, who sometimes get tunnel vision and try to show that you are the guilty party. So if you are claiming that you went shopping at the key time of the alleged crime, it behooves you to have your own investigators trying to prove that for you, as they may look harder and longer for surveillance footage to clear you.

I totally agree and that's a great example.. and no one is going to work harder to prove your innocence than YOURSELF (and the person you are paying to do it) It's sad but true...

 

[deelytful1]

Because Isabel has the same name as the person that murdered NR!

They were not after the other children!

They were after Isabel Celis!




I just thought it very interesting!

LOL probably nothing but then again it could be something!
JMO

I'm very confused.. Isabel Celis (missing) was 6.. this person was 51. Forgive me if I'm not seeing the obvious but what's the scenario you're thinking?

 

[gitana1]

Okay, I researched it. There are federal laws the states have to follow. They do need probable cause and a warrant to place a bug. http://books.google.com/books?id=MS...Aw#v=onepage&q=bugging probable cause&f=false

Read section C, (1), (2), (3) and (4) of the capsule summary.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Okay, I just have to add my :twocents: on the effeminate issue...
I dated a man for three years in my early 20s who was from South America who was effeminate.. the way he crossed his legs, the way he held his cigarette, the way he danced.. but he was intelligent and cultured and didn't have to have the "rugby" mentality of a "man" and was secure with that. He was also the most attentive, affectionate and probably the BEST lover I ever had!!! (I know TMI.. just making a point )
So, yeah... it does NOT necessarily mean Sergio has any homosexual tendencies. I AM very concerned about the no contact order though and IMO am wondering if perhaps they may have found something incriminating on his computer???
I mean, they never issued a no contact order in the Josh Powell casend look what happened?? I'm thinking it's got to be something huge...

Above BBM. This was one of the very first thoughts that came to my mind.. tho I quickly forced it from my mind due to the fact that it scared me to think in those terms... God how I pray you guys are wrong that feel this is directly related to Isa.. I assume it obvious what I'm fearing.. jmo..

 

[gitana1]

Just got done reading thru much of the thread catching up on the day on here... A few things I notice about this case is there has been some 'twist' of assumption and facts. As of the moment there is no LE Fact statement of who actually has custody, what we have is the media's calculated opinion of fact ( usless there has been a positive sighting of boys with RC ). Also there is this assumption that LE needs parental concent to speak to the minor in AZ.... Not so, LE in AZ doe's not need parental consent.. they only need a child advocate to supervise or issue permission however they usually 'ask' (more or less as a retorical question). One thing most everyone in here doe's not understand... This case is in ARIZONA not Florida, New York or California IT'S ARIZONA. Arizona has a WAY DIFFERENT method of Law Enforcement than ANY other state, They have more protective measures and secondary double fail safes in place to prevent mistakes and misjudgements. They also have more regulations in place to protect victims rights. In my experiance dealing with Arizona LE is that they are perhaps one of the more professional LE agency's in the country, they don't make guess's and they collect facts before jumping on anything BUT they do cover all the bases from many angles and are very careful what they release to the public and sometimes release MISinformation to draw perps out... Look back to the Baseline Rapist / Serial Killer in Phoenix. They put out a great deal of MISinformation to help smoke out the perp AND they caught him. Just my observational opinion from living in Phoenix and dealing with LE in AZ on many things from working as a CI.

Wow. Great information about AZ LE. Thank you!

 

[Knox]

I'm very confused.. Isabel Celis (missing) was 6.. this person was 51. Forgive me if I'm not seeing the obvious but what's the scenario you're thinking?

Weird!! That happened in my backyard (PR). It was strange to log onto to WS and see that story mentioned here in Isabel's thread.

Trust me, that case (those people) has no link to Sergio, Becky or Isabel. One of our employee's cousin and nephew were arrested when the investigation was ongoing. That case ultimately involved the transportation and sale of drugs, money and sort of what could be described as a turf war. The woman killed was a victim in the truest sense of the word.