AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14

[azmary]

Not sure who "they" are. I can't see using a cross-trained dog as being a best practice in the world of forensic crime solving, especially in a murder case. I imagine a decent attorney could have a field day in court creating doubt about what a cross-trained dog alerted on, exactly. Was it a dead person? A live person? A scent trail?

Here you go you can read up on one of the dogs he does narcotics and missing children
http://scoutdogpages.com/?page_id=11

 

[Galadriel]

Introducing Fast and Furious gun smuggling and the Celis family. Are they the same Celis family, we report you decide.

Wow. I've been following this since the beginning, but I never saw that coming. If this turns out to be the case, what are the odds of Isa's safe return home? And who is being punished by her kidnapping?

It seems like a risky move to kidnap a small child, especially with the amount of nationwide exposure this case has gotten. Wouldn't that just point more fingers at the culprit? ETA: Meaning if the kidnapper is already involved in illegal activity, taking Isa is going to open up avenues of inquiry that may lead back to and expose previous criminal activity.

 

[carole]

There is something very ummm... unusual... going on here. At least that's my hunch and that of a few other folks I know and trust.

Anyone see this? http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/19/nation/la-na-fast-furious-20120319

Let's just say that there's a familial connection however distant. And let's just say that perhaps there was some sort of covert activity within the immediate or slightly extended family. And let's say that a cover was blown somehow or something else in the familial dynamic changed. Would there be some cause for a retribution, a "message" maybe?

Could be a stretch, but might be an interesting scenario. Maybe there is some degree of an informant situation potentially at play?

Also, anyone else find it interesting that the Chief gave the presser today as opposed to Pachecho or Hawke?

Maybe I'm just insane. LOL.

BBM

That did seem strange - Chief of Police doing a PC to say there's nothing new.

 

[Prof]

Especially when it is compared with his inconsolable crying in the public presentations. It is putting those two demeanors together, that makes it hinky for me. You have his call, where he opens by saying his daughter has been abducted, then calmly lays out his alibi from the previous night. And he sounds so unconcerned. Then in his public interview, he falls apart completely, with dramatic histrionics. Odd, imo.

This is what bugs me, too. If everything is an act, where is the truth?

 

[katydid23]

But, another argued, agents may have viewed Celis-Acosta as a possible conduit to the cartels. "He was cooperating and talking a lot and giving up a lot," he said. "From an investigative standpoint, that's pretty good information you're getting. Maybe he can hook you into even bigger fish."

An ATF flow chart listed him at the top of more than two dozen individuals involved in the gun-smuggling ring.

The documents state that Celis-Acosta led the smuggling ring and that he was paid from drug proceeds to illegally acquire firearms for cartels. He carried a permanent U.S. resident card, a Social Security number and an Arizona driver's license. He moved easily between homes in Mexico and Phoenix. Eventually arrested by U.S. marshals at a relative's home in El Paso, he pleaded not guilty to gun-smuggling charges as one of 19 Fast and Furious defendants. None of the 19 has gone to trial.
=====================================================

So IF this was a family member, then there is a good chance that Sergio has dirty hands too. IMO

 

[PAXIMUS]

Wow. I've been following this since the beginning, but I never saw that coming. If this turns out to be the case, what are the odds of Isa's safe return home? And who is being punished by her kidnapping?

It seems like a risky move to kidnap a small child, especially with the amount of nationwide exposure this case has gotten. Wouldn't that just point more fingers at the culprit? ETA: Meaning if the kidnapper is already involved in illegal activity, taking Isa is going to open up avenues of inquiry that may lead back to and expose previous criminal activity.

I wish I had answers for you, Peiper and I and some others been doing some work in accord with some local buzz and this is part of what was dug up...we leave it to you sleuthers to run with it and see whats there...

 

[PAXIMUS]

But, another argued, agents may have viewed Celis-Acosta as a possible conduit to the cartels. "He was cooperating and talking a lot and giving up a lot," he said. "From an investigative standpoint, that's pretty good information you're getting. Maybe he can hook you into even bigger fish."

An ATF flow chart listed him at the top of more than two dozen individuals involved in the gun-smuggling ring.

The documents state that Celis-Acosta led the smuggling ring and that he was paid from drug proceeds to illegally acquire firearms for cartels. He carried a permanent U.S. resident card, a Social Security number and an Arizona driver's license. He moved easily between homes in Mexico and Phoenix. Eventually arrested by U.S. marshals at a relative's home in El Paso, he pleaded not guilty to gun-smuggling charges as one of 19 Fast and Furious defendants. None of the 19 has gone to trial.
=====================================================

So IF this was a family member, then there is a good chance that Sergio has dirty hands too. IMO

B-4, B-6, N-5

Bingo!

 

[pieper4]

Remember too... we have information (I can dig up the link if need be) about the information getting to the Chief via a captain in TPD with the caveat (paraphrasing) "this one seems legitimate". There are ~10 TPD captains of which only about 6 are likely to be involved in this type of matter (excluding HR, traffic, etc). One such captain shares a surname with the family, albeit a very common Mexican surname. Yet we still have the multiple dismissed charges against at least 3 family members. Connected? Coincidental? Creepy? I dunno, honestly. More connect-the-dots.

 

[winterrose]

Why in the heck do you guys get all CSI at this time of the night? I'm suppose to be sleeping. ;D

 

[cluciano63]

BBM

That did seem strange - Chief of Police doing a PC to say there's nothing new.

I am sure they knew it would be a pretty packed house, wanting news on the CPS angle...and he wanted to make it "official" that it did not mean they were calling anyone a suspect, etc...

 

[Prof]

obviously I have pages of catching up to do for the 3 hours I missed... I apologize .. please just ignore my random replies
along with my typos

 

[pieper4]

Why in the heck do you guys get all CSI at this time of the night? I'm suppose to be sleeping. ;D

'Cuz we live in AZ (only 10:40 here) and have day jobs. LOL. Or sometimes brain cells just kick in odd times.

 

[cluciano63]

Remember too... we have information (I can dig up the link if need be) about the information getting to the Chief via a captain in TPD with the caveat (paraphrasing) "this one seems legitimate". There are ~10 TPD captains of which only about 6 are likely to be involved in this type of matter (excluding HR, traffic, etc). One such captain shares a surname with the family, albeit a very common Mexican surname. Yet we still have the multiple dismissed charges against at least 3 family members. Connected? Coincidental? Creepy? I dunno, honestly. More connect-the-dots.

I took that to mean that they did not believe the child had wandered off, that with the screen being out, it sounded like a possible "real abduction." JMO

 

[Pensfan]

The golden rule for Mexican traffickers: Don't kill Americans. It brings too much heat.

One has to assume that this also applies to abducting American children.

 

[Madeleine74]

Here you go you can read up on one of the dogs he does narcotics and missing children
http://scoutdogpages.com/?page_id=11

"Czar does both narcotics detection and all aspects of criminal apprehension. Czar can also track lost children, and works with the SWAT team."

Czar sounds like a very smart dog!

Note that he's not trained to detect cadaverine AND live human scent. He can track either a live human scent trail or detect the presence of narcotics. Sounds like he's also used as a general police dog to help contain a suspect. I also notice he is not an "FBI dog." He works for a small PD in Minnesota.

Now...back to Isa's case specifically. Two dogs were brought in. We were told what their specialty was for each. Which dog (if either one) detected narcotics? If neither did, was a 3rd dog brought in? I have heard nothing except for 2 dogs brought into THIS case. Were narcotics or the scent of narcotics found in either the home or any of the Celis vehicles?

 

[Whisperer]

I am not even going near any drug cartel/human trafficking or any other such exotic motive. I prefer to keep it simple.

It appears that LE gave out the info today about Sergio and the boys not being able to see/talk to each other.This puts SC in a very bad light in the court of public opinion.Then to make matters worse (for Sergio) they release a 911 tape of his voice not even ruffled calling in to 911 dispatch. Again, this did not reflect well on him once again.

It appears to me that LE is focused on him as the one who is responsible for his daughter's disappearance. They are putting pressure on him. This has gone on way too long. Confessions usuallly can be had in the first two weeks if no attorney steps in. If he is the perp, he has been a hard nut to crack.

If I am interpreting LE accurately, I agree with their focus.

 

[Pensfan]

"Czar does both narcotics detection and all aspects of criminal apprehension. Czar can also track lost children, and works with the SWAT team."

Czar sounds like a very smart dog!

Note that he's not trained to detect cadaverine AND live human scent. He can track either a live human scent trail or detect the presence of narcotics. Sounds like he's also used as a general police dog to help contain a suspect. I also notice he is not an "FBI dog." He works for a small PD in Minnesota.

Now...back to Isa's case specifically. Two dogs were brought in. We were told what their specialty was for each. Which dog (if either one) detected narcotics? If neither did, was a 3rd dog brought in? I have heard nothing except for 2 dogs brought into THIS case.

I think people wondered if the scent dog was a drug dog. Later, it was revealed that it was a bloodhound and these are usually used for tracking.

 

[carole]

But, another argued, agents may have viewed Celis-Acosta as a possible conduit to the cartels. "He was cooperating and talking a lot and giving up a lot," he said. "From an investigative standpoint, that's pretty good information you're getting. Maybe he can hook you into even bigger fish."

An ATF flow chart listed him at the top of more than two dozen individuals involved in the gun-smuggling ring.

The documents state that Celis-Acosta led the smuggling ring and that he was paid from drug proceeds to illegally acquire firearms for cartels. He carried a permanent U.S. resident card, a Social Security number and an Arizona driver's license. He moved easily between homes in Mexico and Phoenix. Eventually arrested by U.S. marshals at a relative's home in El Paso, he pleaded not guilty to gun-smuggling charges as one of 19 Fast and Furious defendants. None of the 19 has gone to trial.
=====================================================

So IF this was a family member, then there is a good chance that Sergio has dirty hands too. IMO

So where is Uncle Cousin in all this???

 

[PAXIMUS]

The golden rule for Mexican traffickers: Don't kill Americans. It brings too much heat.

One has to assume that this also applies to abducting American children.

Could be but Peiper White Rabbit myself and several others didnt just imagine all these connections, they are real, I am not Alex Jones and she is not David Icke.

 

[pieper4]

So where is Uncle Cousin in all this???

Good question. He's been out of sight since day one it seems. Unless I missed something. Which is certainly possible.